ok in the poor mans spirit (mine i guess lol) are the manual winches any good? i was thinking of maybe getting one or at least a come-along. amy ideas or reccomendations?
manual winches
- Thread starter husky455rancher
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jeeptj19992001
Addicted to ArboristSite
yep, they are great, and there is nothing that will carode or break when you need it the most, unlike electrical winches. come alongs are the best, can use them for so manty things
secureland
ArboristSite Operative
The tirfors have more capabilities?
How much do you have to spend for a good one(s)?
Is this a good product?
http://www.versales.com/ns/tractel/tirfor.html
Thanks
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Looks like the one I have, they are expensive. Mine is the midsize, it has 11.3 mm wire rope (7/16 about). I paid $400 for it used, its the real deal, but there are copies, like Jet, and others.
They can pull and reverse while holding the load. They can be used as a hoist as they will not freewheel under load. If you overload them, they have shear pins that will break but the load will be held.
They are much better than drum style winches because the cable length can be as long as you can carry.
They can pull and reverse while holding the load. They can be used as a hoist as they will not freewheel under load. If you overload them, they have shear pins that will break but the load will be held.
They are much better than drum style winches because the cable length can be as long as you can carry.
Swamp Yankee
Addicted to ArboristSite
husky455rancher
Used to design winches from 500 lb electric to 50,000 lb hydraulic for 15 years for the local guys, you know who I mean.
A cheap winch is just that, a cheap winch. The money spent on a cheap 12VDC winch will buy you a very good and well made come-along.
Cheap winches don't like shock loads which is something you tend to get a lot of moving logs. The gearboxes can't take the torque generated trying to back drive the system.
The other thing with the cheap stuff is once the solenoid(s), lead wires, (they never give you the proper dia. leads), or motor heats up you're done. The resistance gets so high you lose all power just getting the juice to the winch.
These things run on starter motors. Cheap non-automotive starter motors. The permanent magnet motors used on most small winches especially those today, tend to fail very quickly. They will de-mag or throw a winding if used under duress for any period of time.
These small winches are primarily designed for one thing moving a load about 3 to 6 feet to get the ATV etc out of trouble and then move on.
A good come-along can usually get a little more power with the aid of 3 to 4 feet of the proper size pipe. Don't do this with the cheapies.
Brief intro to winches. If anyone is interested I'd be willing to write Winching 101 on a rainy day. It'll be long. In the meantime if anyone has a winch question please PM or post and I'll try to answer.
Hope you found something useful in the above.
Take Care
Used to design winches from 500 lb electric to 50,000 lb hydraulic for 15 years for the local guys, you know who I mean.
A cheap winch is just that, a cheap winch. The money spent on a cheap 12VDC winch will buy you a very good and well made come-along.
Cheap winches don't like shock loads which is something you tend to get a lot of moving logs. The gearboxes can't take the torque generated trying to back drive the system.
The other thing with the cheap stuff is once the solenoid(s), lead wires, (they never give you the proper dia. leads), or motor heats up you're done. The resistance gets so high you lose all power just getting the juice to the winch.
These things run on starter motors. Cheap non-automotive starter motors. The permanent magnet motors used on most small winches especially those today, tend to fail very quickly. They will de-mag or throw a winding if used under duress for any period of time.
These small winches are primarily designed for one thing moving a load about 3 to 6 feet to get the ATV etc out of trouble and then move on.
A good come-along can usually get a little more power with the aid of 3 to 4 feet of the proper size pipe. Don't do this with the cheapies.
Brief intro to winches. If anyone is interested I'd be willing to write Winching 101 on a rainy day. It'll be long. In the meantime if anyone has a winch question please PM or post and I'll try to answer.
Hope you found something useful in the above.
Take Care
Been thinking about a gas engine powered winch. Maybe based on a 3-4000 lb
two speed manual gear winch, using a 3-5 hp gas. Use would be for pulling 400-1000lb logs out over hard ground. Any comments about type of gears, winch ratios, winch to engine drive mechanism, and so on would be appreciated.
two speed manual gear winch, using a 3-5 hp gas. Use would be for pulling 400-1000lb logs out over hard ground. Any comments about type of gears, winch ratios, winch to engine drive mechanism, and so on would be appreciated.
sdaly
ArboristSite Operative
I use an 8000 lb. comealong that I bought from Harbor Freight for $20 to pull all kinds of stuff onto my truck and trailer. It works nicely for pulling logs and I've used it to pull a disabled car onto a car carrier. It's super reliable and always gets the job done. It's inexpensive and compact too. The only downside is that it's slower than an electric winch, so it requires some patience. Oh, and you have to put your own muscle into it of course. But, I need the exercise anyway, and I am patient. If I was cutting for a living then maybe I'd invest in an electric winch, but otherwise I'm happy with my comealong for now.
good info guys!
swamp thats good stuff, i really dont know a damn thing about winches. all i know is i cant afford a good one so i was thinking of a come-along. im hoping to make it to harbor freight again sometime soon.
swamp thats good stuff, i really dont know a damn thing about winches. all i know is i cant afford a good one so i was thinking of a come-along. im hoping to make it to harbor freight again sometime soon.
Swamp Yankee
Addicted to ArboristSite
lfnh
This is kind of a general answer. Let me know specifics and I'll try to help
Best way to do a gas winch that I can think of is to hit a bone yard or craigslist etc and look for an old mechanical or pto driven wrecker or light duty crane winch. Those would be pretty easy to adapt over to a gas engine. You would need a drive connection I'd suggest a belt and pulley system as this will absorb shock loads and vibration due to sudden stops or dog at the end of chain type shock loads as the log rolls creates slack and then tightens quickly.
The biggest problem with a gas engine winch is the throttling of the engine is usually how the speed is regulated. If you can work around that you're good to go. However you connect the engine's drive shaft to the drive train make sure there's a slip clutch somewhere. Back driving a gas engine will tend to raise havoc with the crank shaft.
Good old mechanicals were made by Holmes, Braden, Ramsey, Gearmatic and a host of others. Parts are probably still available for the Ramsey and Bradens. Also if you want to be able to freespool the wire rope out a crane winch won't work. They have no freespool mechanism for obvious reasons.
Building your own from scratch will be quite an undertaking. Certainly do-able but I'd suggest looking around for something already made. Another thought along those lines, if you can find an electric worm drive pull the motor and tie into the first stage gearbox ahead of the worm. The input shaft is most likely a standard size with a woodruff key or SAE spline configuration. Either would be easy to couple to with an off the shelf coupling.
WW Grainger is a good source for a lot of this stuff. Tractor Supply another.
Good Luck and Take Care
This is kind of a general answer. Let me know specifics and I'll try to help
Best way to do a gas winch that I can think of is to hit a bone yard or craigslist etc and look for an old mechanical or pto driven wrecker or light duty crane winch. Those would be pretty easy to adapt over to a gas engine. You would need a drive connection I'd suggest a belt and pulley system as this will absorb shock loads and vibration due to sudden stops or dog at the end of chain type shock loads as the log rolls creates slack and then tightens quickly.
The biggest problem with a gas engine winch is the throttling of the engine is usually how the speed is regulated. If you can work around that you're good to go. However you connect the engine's drive shaft to the drive train make sure there's a slip clutch somewhere. Back driving a gas engine will tend to raise havoc with the crank shaft.
Good old mechanicals were made by Holmes, Braden, Ramsey, Gearmatic and a host of others. Parts are probably still available for the Ramsey and Bradens. Also if you want to be able to freespool the wire rope out a crane winch won't work. They have no freespool mechanism for obvious reasons.
Building your own from scratch will be quite an undertaking. Certainly do-able but I'd suggest looking around for something already made. Another thought along those lines, if you can find an electric worm drive pull the motor and tie into the first stage gearbox ahead of the worm. The input shaft is most likely a standard size with a woodruff key or SAE spline configuration. Either would be easy to couple to with an off the shelf coupling.
WW Grainger is a good source for a lot of this stuff. Tractor Supply another.
Good Luck and Take Care
swamp
Thanks for the ideas. we're on the same page with the need for limited slip of some type between engine and winch drive - enough drive to to the job, but not break some thing (or body). I'll dig into your suggestions and will have more questions shortly (esp the one about using a burnt electric winch).
thank you
Thanks for the ideas. we're on the same page with the need for limited slip of some type between engine and winch drive - enough drive to to the job, but not break some thing (or body). I'll dig into your suggestions and will have more questions shortly (esp the one about using a burnt electric winch).
thank you
savageactor7
ArboristSite Guru
Those cabled come along's sure come in handy...sure there slow but very effective also the price is right. they last forever too.
TJ-Bill
Addicted to ArboristSite
Just had a thought. Hi-Lifts can be used as a come-a-long.
I wouldn't want to use it all the time but you can buy a kit for them. I have a 60" hi-lift and it's come in pretty handy. Just another tool to have I guess.
I wouldn't want to use it all the time but you can buy a kit for them. I have a 60" hi-lift and it's come in pretty handy. Just another tool to have I guess.
Winch 101
Hey Swamp.......
I'd really be interested in Winch 101. This is the first year that we've been cutting being we're converting to heating with firewood. I seem to have all the basics of saws, trailer, mauls, wedges, International 656, numerous chains, etc. I've been thinking that a winch would be more productive at times to snag logs up the hills.
If you have the time, winch 101, would be very interesting to read being I'm considering one.
For all you guys that use come alongs.....I've got a couple bigger and better and an idea to pass on to you. There was an old military installation closing nearby and I bought a couple chain hoists that are lever operated for really cheap. Never have to worry about the cable snapping.
Thanks
Hey Swamp.......
I'd really be interested in Winch 101. This is the first year that we've been cutting being we're converting to heating with firewood. I seem to have all the basics of saws, trailer, mauls, wedges, International 656, numerous chains, etc. I've been thinking that a winch would be more productive at times to snag logs up the hills.
If you have the time, winch 101, would be very interesting to read being I'm considering one.
For all you guys that use come alongs.....I've got a couple bigger and better and an idea to pass on to you. There was an old military installation closing nearby and I bought a couple chain hoists that are lever operated for really cheap. Never have to worry about the cable snapping.
Thanks
bonnieville
ArboristSite Member
I've had one of these for about 10 years. I don't use it very often, but it can move stuff. It is a little cumbersome to operate, but strong and affordable.
http://www.wyeth-scott.com/
http://www.wyeth-scott.com/
cycledude232
ArboristSite Member
i have the use of a come a long just like that, its ancient but works wonders.
on my woods tractor i have an old pto winch off an old 1 ton wrecker, its a 10000 pound winch, it runs off my transfer case on an old international 3/4 ton pick up thats been set up just like a small skidder. i love it i haven't had any problems with it, i highly recomend others do the same thing.
on my woods tractor i have an old pto winch off an old 1 ton wrecker, its a 10000 pound winch, it runs off my transfer case on an old international 3/4 ton pick up thats been set up just like a small skidder. i love it i haven't had any problems with it, i highly recomend others do the same thing.
