McCulloch3.4 Eager Beaver or Timber Bear - No Oil To Chain

[etbrown4]

What I was saying was $35 for the little pump is kindof steep, esp for a very old, but otherwise good saw.

An alternative is to buy a parts saw for maybe $40 and you get a whole saw for parts, with every conceivable part you might ever want, though they'll probably have a scored piston or crank.

The third choice is a used working saw. I see 2 right now on ebay for 40 or $50. guaranteed to work, though the bids could go higher.

So all I was saying is that for a very old saw that seemed a little rich, esp when you can buy a used, fully working complete saw for around $50!!! But that is of course the beauty of buying used....though there are risks as well.:smile2:

P.S. I think the smart guys who are parting out saws in large volume are making tons of dough, but good for them!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

What I was saying was $35 for the little pump is kindof steep, esp for a very old, but otherwise good saw.

An alternative is to buy a parts saw for maybe $40 and you get a whole saw for parts, with every conceivable part you might ever want, though they'll probably have a scored piston or crank.

The third choice is a used working saw. I see 2 right now on ebay for 40 or $50. guaranteed to work, though the bids could go higher.

So all I was saying is that for a very old saw that seemed a little rich, esp when you can buy a used, fully working complete saw for around $50!!! But that is of course the beauty of buying used....though there are risks as well.:smile2:

P.S. I think the smart guys who are parting out saws in large volume are making tons of dough, but good for them!

How would you know that the parts saw you buy would have a good oiler on it? I need a coil for a 610 right now but thinking about buying it rather than another parts saw because I've heard the coil (and the oiler) are a weak spot on these saws. If you hang around ebay or saw shops you'll eventually get an oiler at your price. I've bought several of these Macs for $15 and will probably find some more.

 

[etbrown4]

following up...

A mechanic is telling me that with the MAC 610 with the motor off, if you push the oiler button that you are not supposed to see oil exit the port beside the chain.

I have this saw in so many pieces that the last thing I'd want to do is reassemble it without knowing for sure that oil is flowing at least manually!!!!

Does anyone know if oil is supposed to pump with the motor off. I was thinking the operation was entirely manual, but even if it's not I'd think you could pump it manually.

One thing that lends believe-ability to what he is saying, is that there is a pretty good back pressure or resistance on the oiler button after you push it a few times with the motor off.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

following up...

A mechanic is telling me that with the MAC 610 with the motor off, if you push the oiler button that you are not supposed to see oil exit the port beside the chain.

I have this saw in so many pieces that the last thing I'd want to do is reassemble it without knowing for sure that oil is flowing at least manually!!!!

Does anyone know if oil is supposed to pump with the motor off. I was thinking the operation was entirely manual, but even if it's not I'd think you could pump it manually.

One thing that lends believe-ability to what he is saying, is that there is a pretty good back pressure or resistance on the oiler button after you push it a few times with the motor off.

There's a good chance the manual oiler is working if you can feel the resistance at the button. On several of my saws, when you push the button enough times oil starts coming out that hole. I have a 610 in my garage right now, tomorrow I'll find out for sure.

 

[etbrown4]

I hope it's supposed to flow manually, because if not, your left with blind faith that everything is going to be ok, but you have to put it together to find out~~~~~:msp_rolleyes:

 

[Diesel nut]

Here's a few pics of what he's dealin with. I had the same problem with mine. I hope you didn't plug up the port with sealant where the two case halves meet as that could be your problem with the lack of oil flow when you try pushing the manual oiler. It should work whether the saw is running or not.

 

[etbrown4]

man, talk about some great pics!! They are worth a thousand words, esp for some who may have never observed this monster oil tank.

apalmerjr is hopefully going to tell us tomorrow if he gets oil out of his 610 with no motor running.

Diesel Nut's comment about plugging the oil port is a good one, as there is a very narrow margin when the case halves seal back together, and that port is like a half a hole away.

In my case, mine is still in pieces, so no opportunity for sealant to be in the wrong place yet!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

man, talk about some great pics!! They are worth a thousand words, esp for some who may have never observed this monster oil tank.

apalmerjr is hopefully going to tell us tomorrow if he gets oil out of his 610 with no motor running.

Diesel Nut's comment about plugging the oil port is a good one, as there is a very narrow margin when the case halves seal back together, and that port is like a half a hole away.

In my case, mine is still in pieces, so no opportunity for sealant to be in the wrong place yet!

Went out to the unheated garage this morning and checked the 610 and oil definitely comes out of it when you push the manual oiler button. It doesn't work as well when it's this cold because the oil is thick but did come out. When it gets this cold the oil probably should be thinned with fuel mix or just use 10 or 20w motor oil instead of the sticky stuff. After the engine runs awhile it will heat the oil up quite a bit but it won't oil good when it's cold. I didn't start the engine.

 

[etbrown4]

Thanks. It's just as I suspected too.

Will wait on a freebie pump a guy on ebay is shipping to me. It must be the
spirit of Xmas!

Will let you know if I get oil flowing!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Thanks. It's just as I suspected too.

Will wait on a freebie pump a guy on ebay is shipping to me. It must be the
spirit of Xmas!

Will let you know if I get oil flowing!

If you have yours apart as much as the one pictured it would be a great time to replace the filter and hose if bad. Make sure the filter isn't plugged. Also might be great time to clean the oil passages, especially the one going to the bar. Make sure they're all clear then the only thing left is the pump.

 

[etbrown4]

yes my oil suction line had turned yellow as was brittle, and I replaced it. The strainer is as clean as new.

and yes I ran a wire from the oil outlet point near the bar studs back to where you can see the wire, just below where the pump mounts. I did the same thing for the suction side.

So all I need is a ##**$$%% pump, and we'll see what happens then!

On thing that makes this hard to trouble shoot is all the ports in the plastic pump are not just straight through. There are effectively two ports which come from the line or port at the end of the oil plunger. One of those goes through what must be a check valve. That is located on the underside of the plastic pump and is a round rubber seat inside of a brass fitting which is pressed into the underside of this pump. At first I did not realize that the rubber seat was in there and when I ran a wire through it, the tiny piece of rubber actually came out through the other port - thus they are joined.

So in this case there are two outlets connected to the plunger, and I'll never be able to figure it out.......thus, it's time to replace it!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

yes my oil suction line had turned yellow as was brittle, and I replaced it. The strainer is as clean as new.

and yes I ran a wire from the oil outlet point near the bar studs back to where you can see the wire, just below where the pump mounts. I did the same thing for the suction side.

So all I need is a ##**$$%% pump, and we'll see what happens then!

On thing that makes this hard to trouble shoot is all the ports in the plastic pump are not just straight through. There are effectively two ports which come from the line or port at the end of the oil plunger. One of those goes through what must be a check valve. That is located on the underside of the plastic pump and is a round rubber seat inside of a brass fitting which is pressed into the underside of this pump. At first I did not realize that the rubber seat was in there and when I ran a wire through it, the tiny piece of rubber actually came out through the other port - thus they are joined.

So in this case there are two outlets connected to the plunger, and I'll never be able to figure it out.......thus, it's time to replace it!

Sometimes you get into things like this with this hobby. I have a couple of saws I put back for the winter because I'm losing my patience with them. I never completely quit on one, I just put it in the back of the garage to emerge when I feel better about messing with it. One is a McCulloch 610 which just barely has any spark and a ton of compression and the 306A Poulan which needs the starter fixed...again.

 

[Diesel nut]

man, talk about some great pics!! They are worth a thousand words, esp for some who may have never observed this monster oil tank.

Yea it's incredible how big the oil tank is. It must hold almost a pint!

 

[Chris-PA]

The manual oiler definitely works without the engine running. Near as I could tell the two pumps are fairly independent, other than being in the same unit. Cold thick oil is a problem, but one advantage of having the tank be at the bottom of the engine is that if you run it a bit and shut it off it will put some heat into the oil.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

The manual oiler definitely works without the engine running. Near as I could tell the two pumps are fairly independent, other than being in the same unit. Cold thick oil is a problem, but one advantage of having the tank be at the bottom of the engine is that if you run it a bit and shut it off it will put some heat into the oil.

All the saws I get in here that use that sticky bar oil have a gooey, sticky cruddy buildup around the clutch assembly and it definitely sticks to sawdust and dirt and plugs up oil holes eventually. After my current supply runs out I'm going back to either 20 or 30 weight non-detergent motor oil.

 

[Chris-PA]

All the saws I get in here that use that sticky bar oil have a gooey, sticky cruddy buildup around the clutch assembly and it definitely sticks to sawdust and dirt and plugs up oil holes eventually. After my current supply runs out I'm going back to either 20 or 30 weight non-detergent motor oil.

Yeah, I was just pouring in some of the stuff from TSC in the cold today - pretty darn thick and stringy! You can see where pulling that snot though a small tube would be difficult. And you're right, I get a lot of saw dust & bar lube built up around the clutch, especially in the cold. I probably should thin it out too.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Yeah, I was just pouring in some of the stuff from TSC in the cold today - pretty darn thick and stringy! You can see where pulling that snot though a small tube would be difficult. And you're right, I get a lot of saw dust & bar lube built up around the clutch, especially in the cold. I probably should thin it out too.

I'm thinking it might be better to not put it in at all, especially in colder weather. They not just put in 20w oil instead, it should be plenty thick enough in the cold and probably is easier on your oiler. I'm not real sure what would be the safest thing to thin that bar oil with either, perhaps a small amount of diesel fuel?

 

[etbrown4]

success!:smile2:

The replacement oil pump did the trick!

Thanks to the many contributors who helped get us through a tougher-than-average-to-diagnose problem with a Mac 610. I'd say the guys on arboristsite are A+.

With the 5-6 ports in the base of that pump, I think it would be easier to diagnose o-ring problems on the space shuttle!

Special thanks to someone not on this forum -"dozerdude1" an ebay seller who did not have a pump listed, but is someone who handles 1000's of new and used chain saw parts. I've never met him or talked to him before, but believe it or not, the guy sent me the used pump for free and even paid $2.73 for postage. More amazingly the thing even arrived in two days- traveling 3000 miles by the USPS. Man do I ever owe him!

Special thanks also to Diesel NUt who sent those A+ pics. His pics will save the day for the next poor soul who goes through this! Also thanks for A.PalmerJr who helped verify the pump operation....and to all the rest who joined in!!!

You old pros already know this, but at the 20 year point the gas and oil lines were super brittle and definately needed replacing - even if there had not been an oiler problem.

Now if anyone is up for another head scratcher.........

and if anyone has an appetite for some more diagnosis - I have a 2 cycle Makita/Dolmer/Wacker saw that runs great but will not idle. It has a Tillotson HS carb. There seems to be no external throttle or carb stop, and the only adjustment for idle seems to be a screw that adjusts something inside the carb - though that adjustment seems not to work. So I'm curious if anyone on this thread has experience with Tillotson carbs or has seen 2 cycle carbs with no external mechanical idle stop.

I have all the pics and manuals on the carb if anyone would like to see, or is willing to lend a hand or some advice.

(I know I can move to another thread, but this group on this thread seems extra sharp so I thought I would give it a try!) What do you say?:smile2:

 

[a. palmer jr.]

success!:smile2:

The replacement oil pump did the trick!

Thanks to the many contributors who helped get us through a tougher-than-average-to-diagnose problem with a Mac 610. I'd say the guys on arboristsite are A+.

With the 5-6 ports in the base of that pump, I think it would be easier to diagnose o-ring problems on the space shuttle!

Special thanks to someone not on this forum -"dozerdude1" an ebay seller who did not have a pump listed, but is someone who handles 1000's of new and used chain saw parts. I've never met him or talked to him before, but believe it or not, the guy sent me the used pump for free and even paid $2.73 for postage. More amazingly the thing even arrived in two days- traveling 3000 miles by the USPS. Man do I ever owe him!

Special thanks also to Diesel NUt who sent those A+ pics. His pics will save the day for the next poor soul who goes through this! Also thanks for A.PalmerJr who helped verify the pump operation....and to all the rest who joined in!!!

You old pros already know this, but at the 20 year point the gas and oil lines were super brittle and definately needed replacing - even if there had not been an oiler problem.

Now if anyone is up for another head scratcher.........

and if anyone has an appetite for some more diagnosis - I have a 2 cycle Makita/Dolmer/Wacker saw that runs great but will not idle. It has a Tillotson HS carb. There seems to be no external throttle or carb stop, and the only adjustment for idle seems to be a screw that adjusts something inside the carb - though that adjustment seems not to work. So I'm curious if anyone on this thread has experience with Tillotson carbs or has seen 2 cycle carbs with no external mechanical idle stop.

I have all the pics and manuals on the carb if anyone would like to see, or is willing to lend a hand or some advice.

(I know I can move to another thread, but this group on this thread seems extra sharp so I thought I would give it a try!) What do you say?:smile2:

I'm not familiar with any 2 cycle that doesn't have a throttle stop, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am familiar with automotive carburetors just prior to the fuel injections that had no throttle stop but relied on an air screw to control idle. Most carburetor problems can be solved by a GOOD cleaning and a kit. You might also do a follow-up on your search for an idle speed control screw, possibly somewhere you might not expect it, like on the other side of the carb. ?? HS generally have a stop screw. It possibly has been removed by PO.

 

[etbrown4]

My Tillotson carb does have an idle speed control screw, but no idle or throttle stop. The idle speed control screw acts internally on a lever or something inside, I guess.

It can be seen at Tillotson here http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/HSPartsList.pdf

Or at Makita here. (98% sure these are the same carbs- one shows the throttle shaft, and one doesn't) http://www.ereplacementparts.com/makita ... _3090.html I think it might have been page C, not sure