Milling Pics and what I got so far

[BobL]

Bob
Thanks for photo sugestions about the chain. I'll try and see what I can come up with as for close-up photos..This is new camera I got around christmas time, so havn't got to use it much yet. New fandangled things they got now days.

Yep I know what you mean!

As for the stuff/mark on the bar, that appeared when I was sawing some narrower red oak cants. It obviously cut quicker then, than when I was doing wider stuff. The logs have high moisture, as they were cut about a month ago, and live trees, not dead. The stuff on the bar is actually kinda brown, and I can scratch it with a finger nail. Was gonna see if I could clean it off with water or something. It seems as if it got to hot from cutting to fast, or pushing to hard. Almost like burnt on combo of oil, moisture, resin, or whatever.

That's what it will be. With narrow cants all the pushing pressure is concentrated into a reduced spot which can raise the temperature of the bar way over what is good for it. The real concern is not the gunk build up but damaging the bar, and wearing the chain unnecessarily. It's very tempting to push and rip thru those smaller cants but the saw should do the work with very little pushing.

But I will learn as I go, I hope..LOL I have the oiler on the Husqvarna 385xp turned up as high as will go. I was smart enough to do that before I started.

Thanks again Bob, for your help.

No worries.

 

[BlueRider]

The file guide holder that clamps to the bar works but is a bit slow. It's very useful to get all the cutters the same length, just like a grinder does.

Those pferd things look like they are trying to do to much in one go. The rakers don't need to be done every time and the constant dragging of a flat file over the rakers just wrecks the file. They also file rakers to constant height not constant angle.

I recommend the basic oregon file guide for newbies. Concentrate on holding the file straight, firm and constantly at the right angles. The file should be only touching the cutter on the forward stroke - lift the file off the cutter for the back stroke.

The sound of a proper working file should be like paper tearing slowly, crisp and definitive, not scratchy. Every few strokes stop and tap the filings clear of the file.

What top plate angle are you filing?

File the cutter until there are absolutely no glints on the edge of the cutter. Buy yourself a head magnifier to look closely at the edges.

For rakers I recommend a filoplate. This allows you tofiles to constant angle which is better than constant height. Check the raker dept with a caliper from the top of the raker to the bar, Zero that and then measure top of the cutter to the bar, that will tell you if you are filing them enough. I file my raker depths so they are 1/10 of the gullet width and that seems to work really well, certainly as well as a new chain.

Rakers also need shaping. The more you roll the forward edge over, the further the raker penetrates into the wood. Most people don't roll them enough and that's another reason why the chain doesn't work properly

what Bob said plus I would add that if you are just starting I would recomend giveing the file a slight turn through through each stroke kind of like if it were a screw driver. This will maximize the wear of the file and if you are filing eash tooth the same number of strokes it will make for a more even chain. it may seem a bit akward at first but it is much easier to learn this from the start. after each tooth turn the file slightly in your hand so the entire file gets used evenly. in order to do this you will need to wean yourself off the file guide but it is not so hard and if you are unsure you can use the file guide on every other sharpening.

Also I'm not sure if Bob covered which direction to file each tooth. you want the burr from the file on the outside of each tooth. this means you will have to file every other tooth from the opposite side of the bar. I do all the teeth from one side and then turn the saw around for the other half. when I do the rakers I mark the tooth where I start with a sharpie so I know when I have done the whole chain. I sometimes do this when I sharpen the chain too.

 

[OhioGregg]

Bob, Here are few pics of the chain, don't know how usefull they will be, tuff for me to get good close-ups yet, gonna have to do some manual reading on camera. The "gunk" on the bar did clean off, and did no damage to the bar rails, yet! that I can tell. In a couple of the pics, you can just make out the small "flat" on top of the depth rakers. I assume the forward edge of these where it goes from flat to round, should be rounded over more. Am I correct? or way out it left field. I turned the bar over also while I was at it.

Another question I have, while Im at it, is there any big disadvantage using a 28" bar for this, over the 24" that I'm using now. So far I havn't needed the longer bar. I know the saw will be pulling more chain around the bar, but you would have more cutters working for ya too. I do have a couple new ripping chains for that also. My chains are from Baileys, buy the way. I think the angle on the cutters is 10 degrees. Neither file guide I currently have, has markings for that, so just been going by eye.

Thanks again Bob, for all your patience with us "new guys"
Gregg

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Gregg, something like this will help with the angle.

Rodney

 

[OhioGregg]

Gregg, something like this will help with the angle.

Rodney

Now thats a simple idea I hadn't thought of! Is that home made or a store bought item? The file I'm currently using, looks about like yours in pic.

Thanks, Gregg

 

[Bill_G]

I was looking at where you said the 1/4 notches were not coming out right for you, you are ending up with a 1 1/8th. I think you will find your kerf is 3/8 and not 1/4. So when you set for your cuts you will end up an eighth over or under your target.

 

[BobL]

Bob, Here are few pics of the chain, don't know how usefull they will be, tuff for me to get good close-ups yet, gonna have to do some manual reading on camera. The "gunk" on the bar did clean off, and did no damage to the bar rails, yet! that I can tell. In a couple of the pics, you can just make out the small "flat" on top of the depth rakers. I assume the forward edge of these where it goes from flat to round, should be rounded over more. Am I correct? or way out it left field.

You are correct. The rakers are a good depth (1/8th of gullet width as worked out from the image) but the tope are far too flat. Don't be scared to round them over right to the back. Have a look at a new chain, you can go a touch more than that for milling.

The other small concern I have is possibly insufficient cutter hook, or side angle. What do others think?
This could be due to
- the Pferd file guide itself,
- using a wrong size file
- incorrect size file guide
What size file are you using? You could try using a 1/64" smaller file. It won't damage anything and if the chain becomes too grabby its easy enough to correct by resharpening with your usual file.

Another thing I notice is the extent of the chain wear at the bottom of the chain side straps given the amount of life left in the cutter and that you are cutting relatively soft wood.
This is a sure sign the saw has
- insufficient bar lube (If you had an alaskan I would say add an auxiliary oiler) or
- been pushed too hard.
I'd say its the second one and is related to the previous 2 discussion points above.
The wear seems to be more in the middle of the strap that the outer edges. This suggests a chain that is possibly too tight. Have read of this post - it's pretty technical but tells you when you should and shouldn't retension the chain. A close up of your sprocket would be very diagnostic.

I turned the bar over also while I was at it. Another question I have, while Im at it, is there any big disadvantage using a 28" bar for this, over the 24" that I'm using now. So far I havn't needed the longer bar. I know the saw will be pulling more chain around the bar, but you would have more cutters working for ya too.

4" won't make a lot of difference with your saw. It also won't go blunt quite as quickly and it helps the chain stays a bit cooler if a length of it hangs out in the breeze.

I do have a couple new ripping chains for that also. My chains are from Baileys, buy the way. I think the angle on the cutters is 10 degrees. Neither file guide I currently have, has markings for that, so just been going by eye.

Even though they look pretty good your eye won't good enough, get your self a protractor and mark 10º on the file guide or rig up something like Rod suggests.

Thanks again Bob, for all your patience with us "new guys"
Gregg

No worries

 

[stipes]

Thanks for the pics....

Heres a couple pics for you Valekbrothers as to how the thing attaches to the saw, and adjusting the chain. Pretty simple acctually

I was wondering how the setup was ....I would love to build one for me oneday for small logs,,limbs....Wonder if thompson linear bearings and ground round stock would work out???

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Now thats a simple idea I hadn't thought of! Is that home made or a store bought item? The file I'm currently using, looks about like yours in pic.

Thanks, Gregg

It's sold by Logosol. I've got mine rigged up on a 2/4 and clamped to an old workbench top out by the M7. I can also clamp it to my trailer rail when out in the field or in a vice in the shop.

The Pferd file is like yours, but could be a different size. I say this because reading you post, you say the the clips on your threaded bar doesn't come out to be 1/4". I think this is because you are using standerd 3/8" chain and the BigMill is set up for the low-profile 1/4" chain. They also take a different size file.

Like you, I run the 385 Huskey and I use four different bars. The 16", 20" and 24" are the low-pro and the 36" is standerd 3/8" chain. Mostly I use the 16" because it's cheaper and the chain holds up better. Plus, it's long enough and more oil gets to less chain. I use the 36" when I need to with the standard 3/8" chain for quarter cutting with the BigMill. By the way, I use a different sprocket with each bar. Change bars, change sprocket.

By far the most problems I've had started with trying to cut with a dull chain. It doesn't take much, just a couple of licks before the chain gets dull. I had to learn this the hard way because I didn't want to take the time. It cost a lot of money, but I did learn.

Hope this helps
Rodney

 

[OhioGregg]

It's sold by Logosol. I've got mine rigged up on a 2/4 and clamped to an old workbench top out by the M7. I can also clamp it to my trailer rail when out in the field or in a vice in the shop.

The Pferd file is like yours, but could be a different size. I say this because reading you post, you say the the clips on your threaded bar doesn't come out to be 1/4". I think this is because you are using standerd 3/8" chain and the BigMill is set up for the low-profile 1/4" chain. They also take a different size file.

Like you, I run the 385 Huskey and I use four different bars. The 16", 20" and 24" are the low-pro and the 36" is standerd 3/8" chain. Mostly I use the 16" because it's cheaper and the chain holds up better. Plus, it's long enough and more oil gets to less chain. I use the 36" when I need to with the standard 3/8" chain for quarter cutting with the BigMill. By the way, I use a different sprocket with each bar. Change bars, change sprocket.

By far the most problems I've had started with trying to cut with a dull chain. It doesn't take much, just a couple of licks before the chain gets dull. I had to learn this the hard way because I didn't want to take the time. It cost a lot of money, but I did learn.

Hope this helps
Rodney

Rodney, Thanks for the info. I been using Baileys ripping chain so far, and I do recall reading that it is different size than the chain sold by Logosol. Accounting for the slight difference in the settings on the Big Mill basic setup.
I worked at sharpening some chain yesterday, and got to thinking, maybe I can make a guide similar to that, I put the chain on an old bar mounted in my vise. Was thinking of making a guide and mounting it to the old bar with a couple bolts. I find its easier to sharpen the chain in the vise instead of on the saw anyway. can turn the vise around, to get both sides cutters.

Thanks for help, and ideas!
Gregg

 

[Rodney Sinclair]

Gregg, we had a lot of trouble with this a few years back. The only place you could get the picco chain was from Logosol and it was high cost. The Stihl dealers couldn't even get it. Still can't in the 63 PMX. They can get 63 PM which is the same chain just filed at a 30* angle. And it does work, just a little rougher cut. Bailey's does sell something like it now at about half price. On their website look for WP30LR. The last I bought was 18 cents a link. But remember it does take a different sproket.

Yeah, there is alot of different ways to clamp the chain for filein and you will find yours. I like the one I'm on because I can get 5 teeth at a time. The tape in the pic is to mark the tooth where I started. Also by takin the chain off, I can clean the gunk off the bar you talked about with a steel wire brush. A can of Pam cooking spray helps on that also. Just a shot on the bar every once in a while does wonders.

Rodney

 

[BobL]

One thing that I learned from my metal work teacher in high school (and I've heard it countless time from a wide range of people who work with metal including people like jewelers) is a consistent filing angle is best obtained with a level forearm, otherwise it's too hard to hold the arm at the same angle. It's probably no different filing a chain. What this calls for, for people that want to file by hand, is a chain sharpening jig that in the case of ripping chain tilts the bar over by 10º so the arm can stay level.

Hummmm . . . . . . that sounds like a project I could deal with