Milling saves me more money than I thought...

[Brmorgan]

Went down to the building supply to get a couple nice new guide boards since the best one I had didn't do so well over the winter. Two 14' Pine #2 2X10s cost me darn near $30!!! Sheesh, I can cut for a whole day on less fuel and oil than that, and have a couple hundred BF or some nice beams to show for it! And I don't even have a bandmill yet.

 

[Andrew96]

Amazing eh? The difference seems even greater when you start looking at hardwoods...though softwood is enough of a shock. I couldn't afford to make the stuff I do if I actually had to lay out cash to get material.

 

[timberwolf]

Don't want to rain on a sunny day, but don't forget though to count some of the value of the saw in your wood yield. Saws don't last forever, esp when miling.

 

[FJH]

Don't want to rain on a sunny day, but don't forget though to count some of the value of the saw in your wood yield. Saws don't last forever, esp when miling.

As long as your wood is free this is the case!
If you were to buy logs and cut em you would find by the time you add in your time, gas ,oil, wear and tear on the saw sharpening ect you would break even and that pine board would be a bargin.just think how long it takes to set up and cut a log and how long each pass takes.
For me its not worth me milling for somone else unless I do it by the hour.

 

[mtngun]

Don't want to rain on a sunny day, but don't forget though to count some of the value of the saw in your wood yield. Saws don't last forever, esp when miling.

Saws are indeed high maintenance.

However, if you buy a used milling saw and maintain it in good running condition, chances are you can sell it on ebay for about what you paid. It's mind boggling what people will pay for beat up old muscle saws on ebay.

When you look at it that way, the real cost of milling is maintenance, fuel, oil, chains, bars, tools, and accessories -- which is still substantial.

Most of that stuff I'd need anyway for cutting firewood.

I figure I "break even" on milling, plus I enjoy it, plus it seems more environmentally friendly than store bought lumber.

 

[Brmorgan]

Don't want to rain on a sunny day, but don't forget though to count some of the value of the saw in your wood yield. Saws don't last forever, esp when miling.

I suppose, though I can do all my own maintenance and repair and saws are as much a hobby for me as anything else, so I don't really think of it that way. And it's not exactly like I'd be left high and dry if one of my saws did blow up! And yes it is beautifully sunny here today yet again.

As long as your wood is free this is the case!
If you were to buy logs and cut em you would find by the time you add in your time, gas ,oil, wear and tear on the saw sharpening ect you would break even and that pine board would be a bargin.just think how long it takes to set up and cut a log and how long each pass takes.
For me its not worth me milling for somone else unless I do it by the hour.

True, though stumpage on salvage logs here is only $12.50 / cube, so there's still immense profit or savings to be made off of that. Would depend on transport costs more, I guess. I haven't done many milling jobs for anyone else really. I've cut a fair number of pieces for folks, but I can usually fit them in around stuff I'm already doing for myself. My setup time depends on how long the piece is, more or less. If it's shorter than the guide piece I'm using, setup and cut time isn't that bad at all; once I start having to move the guide board is when it starts taking too much time, which is why I bought two 14' 2X10 pieces. And while cutting boards admittedly isn't time efficient for earning money, I think custom beams would be. I'd love to know how much the 8" X 12" X 26' Fir beam I cut a couple weeks ago would be worth on the market.

 

[timberwolf]

I suppose, though I can do all my own maintenance and repair and saws are as much a hobby for me as anything else, so I don't really think of it that way. And it's not exactly like I'd be left high and dry if one of my saws did blow up! And yes it is beautifully sunny here today yet again.

Yep, I think of my bit of milling in the same way, also the mill allows making cuts that would be hard or impossible to find at any common lumber store.

Milling shines in making those big thick slabs and beams, not so much for ripping 2x2s for a railing. Though I have milled slabs and recut with contractor grade circular saw, that worked not bad for making some smaller dimentioned lumber.

 

[Kicker_92]

I'd love to know how much the 8" X 12" X 26' Fir beam I cut a couple weeks ago would be worth on the market.

That beam would currently be about $420 here in Vancouver, rough sawn finish and you pick up from the mill. (assuming it would be select grade structural)

Nice chunk of change for a couple days work...

 

[TraditionalTool]

That beam would currently be about $420 here in Vancouver, rough sawn finish and you pick up from the mill. (assuming it would be select grade structural)

Nice chunk of change for a couple days work...

That seems high, but I think your talking about Canadian $$$s.

I've been told that I could get 6x12 at $4/linear-foot. Even if 8x12 was $5/linear-foot, that would still be about $125 for the beam. If you consider the time in milling it, moving the log around, getting it setup, etc...the savings is not that great, IMO. A bandmill makes the process much simpler, IMO.

 

[stipes]

I dont know if anyone else have a prob...

Went down to the building supply to get a couple nice new guide boards since the best one I had didn't do so well over the winter. Two 14' Pine #2 2X10s cost me darn near $30!!! Sheesh, I can cut for a whole day on less fuel and oil than that, and have a couple hundred BF or some nice beams to show for it! And I don't even have a bandmill yet.

But tryin to find a decent guide board without a bow you have to start digging tru the pile and the local lumber store,,box store,, the people workin there starts coming over and ask ,,,can I help you,,,I want to say,,yes,,you can dig tru here and find a half azz decent board that isnt twisted and bowed....Seems like any 2x4,,,2 x6,,8's ect,,is junk for what I been seeing....I wanted to do some short milling without using the ladder and have so much overhang,,and I bit the bullet and bought a 2x8 10' the best I could find,,and cut off 4' of it on the radial arm saw...I'll end up using the 4" section for kindling,,yes,,it's that bad....I'm just wondering if anyone is havin a hard time finding decent lumber too....

 

[mtngun]

I'm just wondering if anyone is havin a hard time finding decent lumber too....

Yep. Even if the lumber is straight at the store, more often than not it'll quickly warp once it is exposed to sun. That's why I finally broke down and switched to a metal guide.

 

[stipes]

So true!!!

Yep. Even if the lumber is straight at the store, more often than not it'll quickly warp once it is exposed to sun. That's why I finally broke down and switched to a metal guide.

:agree2:

 

[Kicker_92]

That seems high, but I think your talking about Canadian $$$s.

Yes, CDN $ but it's pretty much the same these days.

That beam 8"x12"x26ft be 208 bdft, and that size of Doug Fir last time I got quoted was going for $2000/M for select.

Your prices are much lower than here if you get a 6x12 @ $4/lineal foot. Thats only $0.67 per board foot!

 

[Brmorgan]

That seems high, but I think your talking about Canadian $$$s.

I've been told that I could get 6x12 at $4/linear-foot. Even if 8x12 was $5/linear-foot, that would still be about $125 for the beam. If you consider the time in milling it, moving the log around, getting it setup, etc...the savings is not that great, IMO. A bandmill makes the process much simpler, IMO.

Umm... Considering that our dollar is presently at par with yours, that's also USD too (for now). Heh, I was in a restaurant yesterday and they had a sign by the register that said "Due to the declining US Dollar, we are unable to accept US currency for exchange". They used to accept it straight across (no exchange) when ours was worth less, but with it at parity it actually costs them money to go have it converted over so it isn't worth the trouble. I wonder if it'll affect business because they are right on the highway and get a LOT of traffic from folks making their way to/from Alaska every year.

I don't know general pricing for timbers, but the cheapest I've ever seen a 6X6 is $1.99/ln.ft., and I know that prices generally do not rise in a linear fashion as sizes increase - that is to say, a 6X12 would usually be more than twice the price of a 6X6 because it's harder to get the bigger pieces and still make the same grades.

$420 sounds more like what I would have expected to pay had I had one of the smaller custom-cut Fir mills around here make the beam for me. I know I'd get laughed off the property if I offered $125; heck I wouldn't sell a beam like that for that little.

 

[Brmorgan]

But tryin to find a decent guide board without a bow you have to start digging tru the pile and the local lumber store,,box store,, the people workin there starts coming over and ask ,,,can I help you,,,I want to say,,yes,,you can dig tru here and find a half azz decent board that isnt twisted and bowed....Seems like any 2x4,,,2 x6,,8's ect,,is junk for what I been seeing....I wanted to do some short milling without using the ladder and have so much overhang,,and I bit the bullet and bought a 2x8 10' the best I could find,,and cut off 4' of it on the radial arm saw...I'll end up using the 4" section for kindling,,yes,,it's that bad....I'm just wondering if anyone is havin a hard time finding decent lumber too....

Heh sounds like my experience yesterday! I went in and told them in the store that I wanted two boards - well, they wanted me to pay for them then and there. NO, no, no... I go and pick out my boards, then once I'm happy with what I have I'll come pay you for them. Keep my bank card in the meantime if you don't trust me. Ok, ok.

So I get down to the yard, tear the tarp off a lift of lumber and start digging in. Two young kids, couldn't be more than 19, come over and ask what I need (the store radioed down and told them I'd be coming). I ask if they happen to have any Douglas Fir in the size I need - I knew they didn't carry it separately, but sometimes it's mixed in if someone isn't paying attention. "Nope, we only carry Spruce." Ok... Funny that I'm looking at two slings of lumber that are at least 90% Lodgepole Pine, with some Spruce and Subalpine Fir mixed in. But oh well, I guess as a graderman I know less than the yard guys. So I picked out a couple boards without really tearing the pile apart too far. I'm a yardman's worst nightmare if I'm looking for something specific! I don't think they like us lumber graders very much. I hate it when I show up and they just start throwing boards in the back of the truck. For one the top row is always a writeoff for warp, and second I know that the smaller the pile is, the worse the lumber in it will be because of other guys like me cherry-picking the pile already. I look at EVERY piece before it goes in the truck, period.

 

[Brmorgan]

Yep. Even if the lumber is straight at the store, more often than not it'll quickly warp once it is exposed to sun. That's why I finally broke down and switched to a metal guide.

I have two 14' pieces of Aluminum angle iron that I bought two years ago to help stabilize my guide board. I'm going to rig that up this afternoon with one of these boards - pics to come. It won't do much to mitigate twist or cupping but should help with bow, and will make the piece more rigid in general. If I could weld Aluminum, I'd put some cross-braces to help stabilize it all around, but that'll have to wait.

The best guide board would probably be fully quartersawn old-growth with very tight rings. Obviously that is a pipe dream for many, including myself right now, unless I want to spend $100+ on finish-grade 2" lumber instead of buying structural grade. I keep trying to cut myself a board that's good enough to use as a guide but haven't got one I'm really happy with yet.

I've had decent luck with flat/rift sawn boards that are cut so that the growth rings enter near one corner of the piece, make a nice wide arc up, and come back down at the other corner. The type of piece you might salvage from the first-cut slab after milling a log with an Alaskan. They are a bit prone to cupping, and so might need a pass through the planer once in a while to flatten out, but providing they're cut nice and straight with no grain runout, they don't tent to twist or bow really badly, at least the ones I've had.

Stipes - speaking of the ladder, have you seen this guy's method of mounting? Or maybe it's you, heck if I know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4a-56Pxic8&NR=1

Looks pretty slick. Too bad my 12' extension ladder is a far sight from straight.

 

[Kicker_92]

I guess as a graderman I know less than the yard guys. So I picked out a couple boards without really tearing the pile apart too far. I'm a yardman's worst nightmare if I'm looking for something specific! I don't think they like us lumber graders very much.

So you're the guy that keeps taking all the good board out of the stack! I was wondering why every time we go to buy lumber that all the good boards are already gone...

 

[TraditionalTool]

Umm... Considering that our dollar is presently at par with yours, that's also USD too (for now).

I guess that's good if cash is going over the border, and I know some is...but even inside the U.S., money is very hard to come by.

Consider this, I bought fir recently for $300/1000, which is $0.30/bf. People can't sell logs down here, that's about 1/3rd what it was 2 years ago. NOBODY is buying lumber, you can get 2x12s at $0.50/bf in the big box stores, but they are not moving.

Still makes it worthwhile to have the sawmill, even if to save the marginal savings on timber, and any hardwoods are just icing on the cake, but the real value is in hardwoods.

 

[Brmorgan]

So you're the guy that keeps taking all the good board out of the stack! I was wondering why every time we go to buy lumber that all the good boards are already gone...

Well, for the number of times I buy lumber I doubt it inconveniences many people! It depends on what I'm doing with the wood. For studs or joists I'm not extremely picky. But for deck boards or where they'll be exposed etc., I don't want any crook or cup and minimal twist if at all; not to mention loose knots, holes, edgewane... I try to follow this ethic when grading at the mill too. Even if a piece will technically make a Stud, if I wouldn't use it myself I downgrade quite often.

 

[Brmorgan]

I guess that's good if cash is going over the border, and I know some is...but even inside the U.S., money is very hard to come by.

Consider this, I bought fir recently for $300/1000, which is $0.30/bf. People can't sell logs down here, that's about 1/3rd what it was 2 years ago. NOBODY is buying lumber, you can get 2x12s at $0.50/bf in the big box stores, but they are not moving.

Still makes it worthwhile to have the sawmill, even if to save the marginal savings on timber, and any hardwoods are just icing on the cake, but the real value is in hardwoods.

Yeah a lot of the lumber we're making right now is staying inside Canada; most seems to be going to Alberta. Some over to China as well, but not nearly as much going south as we used to send. Our housing market didn't get hit nearly as hard as yours though, if at all. Property values are at all-time highs in many places; the AVERAGE price for a home in Vancouver (not the outlying cities) topped $1,000,000 last week. Nuckin' Futs, if you ask me!

I heard that they just dropped our export tarriff by 5% too because the price of lumber has been up significantly - it had to hold $315/1000bf for four weeks and I guess it did. I haven't been following it too closely recently. But considering it was hovering just above $125/1000bf a year ago when we shut down, that's pretty decent. I've heard predictions of >$400/1000bf within a year if China's pace keeps up. I sure hope so. Would be nice to have some stability for a change; prices haven't been that high for a long time.