KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
How do you plan to do it?
Need Ideas
- Thread starter mijdirtyjeep
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mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
Well about half the wood will be still stacked in crates. We have a specialized market with some more well off people that like to burn wood on the weekends "more for looks". In the skids there is no bark, and no dirt mixed with the wood. These guys pay more for the wood, but that's ok with them.
Other wood will be pulled in rows, around 5' high and about 8' wide straight off the processor. I just talked with a buddy that owns a greenhouse and he has a bunch of material "plastic" that he will just give us. I will be partially covering the wood with this stuff. This wood will be going to normal customers, and DHS costomers " wife works at the welfare office so leads come easy".
Now we also still have our bundled wood part of the operation. This is still a work in progress as we are trying to acquire more campgrounds.
Now I am in the process of looking for those steel baskets. While I can not dump straight into them without first getting a sorter/tumbler. I think they would take a beating better than the wood ones we use now.
I am also in the process of looking for a larger truck. I am looking at getting a trailer dump box that can hold 3 or 4 cords, with air gates separating each cord. That way I can carry 4-1 cord deliveries on the truck at the same time. Or I can dump 2 at one place and 2 at another. You get the idea!
Other wood will be pulled in rows, around 5' high and about 8' wide straight off the processor. I just talked with a buddy that owns a greenhouse and he has a bunch of material "plastic" that he will just give us. I will be partially covering the wood with this stuff. This wood will be going to normal customers, and DHS costomers " wife works at the welfare office so leads come easy".
Now we also still have our bundled wood part of the operation. This is still a work in progress as we are trying to acquire more campgrounds.
Now I am in the process of looking for those steel baskets. While I can not dump straight into them without first getting a sorter/tumbler. I think they would take a beating better than the wood ones we use now.
I am also in the process of looking for a larger truck. I am looking at getting a trailer dump box that can hold 3 or 4 cords, with air gates separating each cord. That way I can carry 4-1 cord deliveries on the truck at the same time. Or I can dump 2 at one place and 2 at another. You get the idea!
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
Yup, that pic looks about the same way as our idea does in my head.
jrider
Addicted to ArboristSite
moondoggie, what kind of dimensions are that pile and about how many cords? I windrow my wood but only go about 8' tall, 15'wide and 100' long. With those dimensions, it all dries but I'm worried if I go bigger.
I dont sell firewood so my experience with drying wood is limited to the 4 or 5 cord per year I use personally. With that said, I think a lot of you firewood guys over think the situation. Of course I only split a little at a time and whenever the mood strike, so what I do might not even apply here. Usually I will block the wood one week, and maybe next week, get around to splitting it, and then sometime before winter, stack it under a portable carport. I think the wood will dry out pretty fast in small piles, but maybe not so fast in larger 30-40 cord piles. I dont cover the wood or do anything special, let it fall where it may and will have several little piles around waiting to go in the shed. I think if I was going to sell massive amounts of firewood, i would still use the same approach, except for needing to speed up the processing part. I wouldnt worry about stacking in the dry until several months after the wood is split. I just dont see the need. Massive amounts of wood inside a covered shed isnt goint to dry any faster than the same amount of wood stacked outside. Yes the shed might keep the rain off the wood, but large volumes of wood stacked in crates, stacked side by side is going to block the air flow needed to remove moisture from inside the wood. Personally, I dont think i would be in a all fire hurry to get the wood stacked in crates. Process the wood and leave in piles for a few months and once all the firewood is processed, then start stacking in the crates and moving it into a shed. Tall long rows of wood will dry faster than one big pile of wood and if it doesnt seem to be drying fast enough, take your loader and turn the piles over.
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
It is amazing how slow the wood will dry in the center " to be truthful it will not dry at all". We had a pile the same size as the one in the first pic I put up. We left that pile on the pad all winter, and did not put it away. There was still frozen chunks of wood in the center of the pile in May, the snow had been gone for over two month! That and the frog egg's and mold inside that pile was just nasty. We did sell that wood, but at a steep discount.
I personally don't like to leave that wood in a pile for more than a week. All of our good costumers chose us over the other guys because of our quality of wood. You will never get anything from us other than Red or White Oak, and that is one of the differences that separates us from the competition. We have friends that own tree removal business that sell firewood also. They just pile it up in the elements and scoop it out with a loaded. Yes their way of doing it takes a whole lot less work, but the costumers they have are not as picky about the quality of wood they burn. In one load they could get a whole assortment of different wood "soft maple, hard maple, cherry, oak, pine, half load of bark" and they pay accordingly for it.
Our goal is to deliver the cleanest best quality wood we can.
Like I said, my experience is with the small amount I need for personal use and I would guess my piles are much smaller. Still, I think if you have the room, long thin piles should dry pretty fast as compared to a large heaping pile. another thing i would look at is, I have my wood inside before it snows and gets cold. I see your in Mich. I doubt any wood stacked, piled or any other method, except maybe set on fire, would dry this time of year with all the snow and freezing temps. Wood that wont be sold or used before next winter, I wouldnt worry about ice in the middle of a pile, but I would have it stacked under a shed before the weather turned cold next winter. Frog eggs, I havent ever found in the middle of a wood pile, Found a few snake eggs time or two.
It sounds like you guys try to have a 1st rate product. How much more $ are you getting per cord of your premium wood, vs your buddies dirty junk?
I only ask because it seems like you guys have a ton more man hours invested. At some point, good enough needs to be good enough.
typical pile for me
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
Around $75-90 a cord difference. Theirs is running around $165 a cord. Ours is $80 a face cord or $240 how ever you want to look at it.
Not really a ton more man hours either. One guy can crate 1.5-2cords and hour. I figure it as we pay out $14 for crating a cord, but make $60 more per cord after we pay to crate it.
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
That's a nice pile of wood! You split that by hand or off a splitter?
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
The premium you advised is great, but as best I can tell (please correct me if wrong), the only differentiating factor is bark/dirt-free wood. Have I understood that correctly? I ask because why not just use a standard grill/grate off the conveyor, into crates and use the tumbler at the other end of the process - dump the crates into the tumbler which feeds the delivery trucks?
Also, if you target 600 cords, have you the room to windrow it all rather than crate it? If it will season just fine that way and a good tumbler will clear out the rubbish before it enters your delivery stream, then what's the point of the crates?
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
No, our wood is only Red or white oak where the other firewood seller are mixing all types of wood in "pine, soft maple, ext". Not that these are necessarily bad woods to burn, just do not put of the same BTU's as say white oak per cord of wood "pine=15.9mbtu's vs white oaks 29mbtu's per cord".
Heck in the shoulder season's I burn pine that is well seasoned from my personal pile. I also keep some pine around for when my firebox gets full of coals. Rake the coals to the front, throw in a split of pine and open the air rod. I will burn the coals down really quick.
About 30 min with my splitter and two helper
mijdirtyjeep
ArboristSite Operative
Nice job, must be a SuperSplit Type splitter!
066blaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
Does the wood get moldy in the crates? Was it only the bottom layer that was bad on the pad? Nice operation. ..
I think I would stir the pile periodically and sell it for the same price. The mold should go away after drying. Or let the logs sit over winter and process in spring. Do as much as you can the way your doing it and do your best on the rest.
I think I would stir the pile periodically and sell it for the same price. The mold should go away after drying. Or let the logs sit over winter and process in spring. Do as much as you can the way your doing it and do your best on the rest.
shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
Our goal this year is 300-330 full cords. (I only say this because I am on a job outside NYC and was talking with a guy from central NY who told me he was burning 30 cords a year for his 2000 sq ft farm house. Turns out, they refer to facecords as cords in his town. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor!) I think more realistically we will be closer to 250 full cords. I have a difficult time getting more than 2 log truck loads per week. Most everything comes from landclearing and PennDOT maintenance contracts where they are dealing with brush and stumps versus a logger who is looking for mill wood, poles, and tops and leaves the mess behind, generally. I am in a "sweet spot" between the Pittsburgh suburbs and rural PA, for sales anyways. (I say that because I find that people more rural aren't as willing to pay top dollar for premium wood simply because they can do it themselves for cheaper and have the resources) However, loggers to the north don't generally want to haul this far south. (35-60 miles).
Another point I have pondered (not quite worried about, yet, anyways) is the room 400-600 cords would take up, let alone 1000. We are currently working about 2 acres of my parents farm, mostly frontage to a 2-lane highway. We have about 100 right now and that is a serious pile. We have the room to expand, across and creek and behind a good sized garage, but that takes time and money. We are utilizing the most flat part as of now, not that piling split wood on a slope would matter all that much.
I have a few bags as well and they are hard to deal with not being rigid. Like I said, there is no miracle cure. The best option is a pole building which is the most expensive, outside building a kiln, which does nothing to keep the weather off of it once it is dried.
On a side note, there is a guy about an hour and 15 mins from my house I found on craigslist that sells the totes. He says he has 50 left and wants $20 a piece for them, well worth the investment, I think. I think too, most times people would take a little less money if you bought the remaining ones. I may try and make a deal on all of them. Remember too, dismantling them is quite a bit of work and makes a ton of garbage (plastic tote bladder).
A question for mijdirtyjeep/Jim: When you are splitting 25 cords at a time, how are you moving it away from the conveyor? I have a tracked skidsteer that can push it away for the first few cords but after that I have to take diagonal swipes at it. It's kind of rough on the machine, especially the tracks when woods falls into and beneath the tracks as well.....
Question #2: Do you have a self-serve/ farmers stand "like" setup at your wood yard? I did not for sometime but in the past 4 or 5 years, we have made racks along the road and into our driveway with $10-$20-$50-$100-$140 racks that have worked phenomenally. Imagine going away for the weekend skiing or camping and coming back to more money than you spent that weekend. It's a great feeling.....I have only been shorted 2 or 3 times by no more than $20. Also, I have been overpaid more times than that so it has more than balanced out.
Remember too: If you are always selling out, perhaps you aren't charging enough. You may profit a lot more by increasing your prices. Simple supply--demand stuff. I have had the same battle with myself over raising prices. We always sell out. But the human, passionate person most of us are don't want to charge more especially the customers that we have had for years and now over a decade for us.....
Another point I have pondered (not quite worried about, yet, anyways) is the room 400-600 cords would take up, let alone 1000. We are currently working about 2 acres of my parents farm, mostly frontage to a 2-lane highway. We have about 100 right now and that is a serious pile. We have the room to expand, across and creek and behind a good sized garage, but that takes time and money. We are utilizing the most flat part as of now, not that piling split wood on a slope would matter all that much.
I have a few bags as well and they are hard to deal with not being rigid. Like I said, there is no miracle cure. The best option is a pole building which is the most expensive, outside building a kiln, which does nothing to keep the weather off of it once it is dried.
On a side note, there is a guy about an hour and 15 mins from my house I found on craigslist that sells the totes. He says he has 50 left and wants $20 a piece for them, well worth the investment, I think. I think too, most times people would take a little less money if you bought the remaining ones. I may try and make a deal on all of them. Remember too, dismantling them is quite a bit of work and makes a ton of garbage (plastic tote bladder).
A question for mijdirtyjeep/Jim: When you are splitting 25 cords at a time, how are you moving it away from the conveyor? I have a tracked skidsteer that can push it away for the first few cords but after that I have to take diagonal swipes at it. It's kind of rough on the machine, especially the tracks when woods falls into and beneath the tracks as well.....
Question #2: Do you have a self-serve/ farmers stand "like" setup at your wood yard? I did not for sometime but in the past 4 or 5 years, we have made racks along the road and into our driveway with $10-$20-$50-$100-$140 racks that have worked phenomenally. Imagine going away for the weekend skiing or camping and coming back to more money than you spent that weekend. It's a great feeling.....I have only been shorted 2 or 3 times by no more than $20. Also, I have been overpaid more times than that so it has more than balanced out.
Remember too: If you are always selling out, perhaps you aren't charging enough. You may profit a lot more by increasing your prices. Simple supply--demand stuff. I have had the same battle with myself over raising prices. We always sell out. But the human, passionate person most of us are don't want to charge more especially the customers that we have had for years and now over a decade for us.....
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
You've misunderstood me (I will clarify) and not answered my other questions (as is your prerogative).
To clarify the misunderstanding, I was asking about the differentiation between the wood going to "more well off people" and "normal customers, and DHS co[sic]stomers".
shamusturbo
ArboristSite Member
066 Blaster:
I have never had mold of the wood in the baskets except for one time when we stacked the wood from a pile that had been frozen to the ground and had attach to dirt. When the ice thawed, the mud remained in the basket and molded about 2 rows on the bottom. Other then that, If the wood staying the baskets for the right amount of time, you wouldn't be able to find better wood. Kiln dried or not.
Letting the logs sit through the winter is that hardest thing to do from a timing stand point. Timing may be the hardest aspect of running a firewood operation, big or small. When the calender year changes, we try to attack what we need for the upcoming year ASAP. (Working in the winter -especially this winter- has been hard: rubber tracks on ice, diesel engines not wanting to start or stay running--you get the idea). Selling the best product means knowing when the wood is ready to sell. Oaks for example take much longer than sassafras or maples and especially white ash which is usually good to go when you cut it down. I try to segregate a little bit if I know a certain "batch" has to dry longer. I can guarantee that everything I sell is seasoned (being disconnected from the stump for more than 9 months)***(With the exception of dead wood, mainly white ash). I would like to sell dried wood (Wood stacked for more than 6 months) at a premium but I cannot keep my baskets full for long enough. I filled them all in late Feb. and have sold a handful since then. They will all be sold by Memorial day. Fill them again and gone by 4th of July. Labor day after that, and the start of firewood season after that. You can't complain when you have relatively steady sales but I'm just trying to make the point that selling "dried" wood is near impossible when you always want to sell the next best wood next.
Like you said: Stick with what you are good at! Don't get crazy and stick to what has made you money in the past. More businesses than not go out of business because they try to grow too fast. And just because the demand is there, doesn't mean you have to meet it. I don't think we ever will.....
I have never had mold of the wood in the baskets except for one time when we stacked the wood from a pile that had been frozen to the ground and had attach to dirt. When the ice thawed, the mud remained in the basket and molded about 2 rows on the bottom. Other then that, If the wood staying the baskets for the right amount of time, you wouldn't be able to find better wood. Kiln dried or not.
Letting the logs sit through the winter is that hardest thing to do from a timing stand point. Timing may be the hardest aspect of running a firewood operation, big or small. When the calender year changes, we try to attack what we need for the upcoming year ASAP. (Working in the winter -especially this winter- has been hard: rubber tracks on ice, diesel engines not wanting to start or stay running--you get the idea). Selling the best product means knowing when the wood is ready to sell. Oaks for example take much longer than sassafras or maples and especially white ash which is usually good to go when you cut it down. I try to segregate a little bit if I know a certain "batch" has to dry longer. I can guarantee that everything I sell is seasoned (being disconnected from the stump for more than 9 months)***(With the exception of dead wood, mainly white ash). I would like to sell dried wood (Wood stacked for more than 6 months) at a premium but I cannot keep my baskets full for long enough. I filled them all in late Feb. and have sold a handful since then. They will all be sold by Memorial day. Fill them again and gone by 4th of July. Labor day after that, and the start of firewood season after that. You can't complain when you have relatively steady sales but I'm just trying to make the point that selling "dried" wood is near impossible when you always want to sell the next best wood next.
Like you said: Stick with what you are good at! Don't get crazy and stick to what has made you money in the past. More businesses than not go out of business because they try to grow too fast. And just because the demand is there, doesn't mean you have to meet it. I don't think we ever will.....
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