Need some input on pricing.

[Swamp Rooster]

Hello all . I did a job and the bill is big. It was a big triple basswood with a lot of top. It had to be climbed and topped before we dropped them. It was on a lake edge, steep hill to come up , or three mile round trip haul across a lake with sleigh and tractor on shacks ice. Here are some pictures . Once on the boat landing it was about a 46 mile round trip to haul it with truck and dump trailer. I was going to haul them out with my horses but I did not trust the ice 100%.
I did not bill him yet but when I figured it all up it came up to a little over 12,000. Would like some opinions on that . Thanks in advance.

 

[pdqdl]

That seems like one heck of a big bill to me. Even 1/2 that would seem very high for this area.

 

[Swamp Rooster]

That seems like one heck of a big bill to me. Even 1/2 that would seem very high for this area.

Seems high to me . It was just tough treading across the lake , heavy slush in a lot of it . This winter has been a mess.

 

[661Joe]

Seems very high to me was the lake the only access? I see plowed snow in the background. Hill don’t seem that steep but pics are pics.There was absolutely zero reliability surrounding that tree because the trunks on the wooden wall show that. You could have moved the aluminum lift easily. If you crossed the lake and it was slushy and you thought it was unsafe then that’s on you. But Ice is the same as a road when it’s safe. I’ve done lots of jobs that we deliberately wait until the lake is frozen slam the tree down and drag it to the closest doc/access then process from there. Pics are also always deceiving but that kinda stuff I do often and I can say with the upmost respect and confidence your at least 6000$ over anything close to reasonable. Probably closer to 8000$ over priced. From what I see that’s at most a 4000$ job and two days with two person crew. Come in and plow work area a few days prior let the sun burn the snow off and go at it or use the lake to your advantage but unless your forgot to show us something then I believe your way out of line. I mean all of this with the upmost respect but that’s allot of money for what the pictures show. I do this every day all day. That price is robbery I’ll attach a few pics of a 7600$ tree. 3 person crew 2 days. Still broke my heart to charge that much. Either way good luck and stay safe!

 

[Swamp Rooster]

Seems very high to me was the lake the only access? I see plowed snow in the background. Hill don’t seem that steep but pics are pics.There was absolutely zero reliability surrounding that tree because the trunks on the wooden wall show that. You could have moved the aluminum lift easily. If you crossed the lake and it was slushy and you thought it was unsafe then that’s on you. But Ice is the same as a road when it’s safe. I’ve done lots of jobs that we deliberately wait until the lake is frozen slam the tree down and drag it to the closest doc/access then process from there. Pics are also always deceiving but that kinda stuff I do often and I can say with the upmost respect and confidence your at least 6000$ over anything close to reasonable. Probably closer to 8000$ over priced. From what I see that’s at most a 4000$ job and two days with two person crew. Come in and plow work area a few days prior let the sun burn the snow off and go at it or use the lake to your advantage but unless your forgot to show us something then I believe your way out of line. I mean all of this with the upmost respect but that’s allot of money for what the pictures show. I do this every day all day. That price is robbery I’ll attach a few pics of a 7600$ tree. 3 person crew 2 days. Still broke my heart to charge that much. Either way good luck and stay safe!

The is was unworkable with the snow , no access because of neighbors property , sewer system ,and trees they wanted to save. We have had over a hundred and thirty inches of snow this year and it came early so the lake did not have ice on it that you could move on until about a week before I did the job. The only place to move the boat hoist was on the lake . Again at the time it was cut the snow was over waist deep and the lake was not safe . I had to winch some up the hill though the snow and it was not going well. once the ice got a little workable I chanced it . A lot of guys looked at it and passed it by. , they hill is very deceiving in the pic. He needed it done by a certain date or I would not have even messed with it with out the lake to work on . I am not trying to rob the guy or I would not be here to talk about it . Of course if the ice is bad that is on me , I did make it but it was my risk , I risked my self and equipment for his view.
The mistake I made was attempting to do it with our the use of the lake but he really wanted it done. I had to winch the trees and suckers over then up a hill about 60' over and 150' plus up . I just burned time , once I could get on the lake it was much easier . I was also told the boat lift would be gone , very tight lake lots with neighbors that do not seem to wan to be bothered or have anything on their property. But I am truly not wanting to over charge, I have done a LOT of work for him over the years but this thing was a bear, If I had good ice from the get go it would have been one thing but this year it just did not come, in fact three week before I done this the lake opened up to the north of me , springs and other issues besides the snow pack . I did not want to plow it because I wanted the snow pack to run on . a mini excavator broke though it last year right where I was working , much heavier than my machine but it was a WAY colder winter . When I looked at it , with the boat hoist gone , dock gone , and good ice I figured around 6500 in my head . Third worst snow fall in history , and no ice to work with was a game changer .

 

[Swamp Rooster]

Seems very high to me was the lake the only access? I see plowed snow in the background. Hill don’t seem that steep but pics are pics.There was absolutely zero reliability surrounding that tree because the trunks on the wooden wall show that. You could have moved the aluminum lift easily. If you crossed the lake and it was slushy and you thought it was unsafe then that’s on you. But Ice is the same as a road when it’s safe. I’ve done lots of jobs that we deliberately wait until the lake is frozen slam the tree down and drag it to the closest doc/access then process from there. Pics are also always deceiving but that kinda stuff I do often and I can say with the upmost respect and confidence your at least 6000$ over anything close to reasonable. Probably closer to 8000$ over priced. From what I see that’s at most a 4000$ job and two days with two person crew. Come in and plow work area a few days prior let the sun burn the snow off and go at it or use the lake to your advantage but unless your forgot to show us something then I believe your way out of line. I mean all of this with the upmost respect but that’s allot of money for what the pictures show. I do this every day all day. That price is robbery I’ll attach a few pics of a 7600$ tree. 3 person crew 2 days. Still broke my heart to charge that much. Either way good luck and stay safe!

Also if the lake did not freeze i had a possible access to go up through a neighbors yard but he was bucking pretty hard . Then I was up about a 500' switch back driveway and an agreement to pay for any damages to it .. The hill does not show but there are some stepped landscaped areas and old rock switch back steps, and old bell from the early 1900s . My main access was up the hill the right in the pic between the house and the tree, also the well was to the left of the tree. logs had to go way to the left to miss some concrete pillars that will have a deck on them and then back toward the house them up . three rigs per pull..

 

[ChasSC]

What did you discuss with the homeowner prior to starting the job? I am trying to look at it from both perspectives. As a homeowner, $12K I would have left the tree standing. Without a contract/agreement prior to starting the job, post work negotiations can be a little tricky. Personally, I wouldn't have taken my equipment over a frozen lake with all that weight, but I don't live up north where it may be common to do so.

 

[Bill G]

Very simple you charge the amount you bid the job for. There should be no confusion.

 

[661Joe]

The is was unworkable with the snow , no access because of neighbors property , sewer system ,and trees they wanted to save. We have had over a hundred and thirty inches of snow this year and it came early so the lake did not have ice on it that you could move on until about a week before I did the job. The only place to move the boat hoist was on the lake . Again at the time it was cut the snow was over waist deep and the lake was not safe . I had to winch some up the hill though the snow and it was not going well. once the ice got a little workable I chanced it . A lot of guys looked at it and passed it by. , they hill is very deceiving in the pic. He needed it done by a certain date or I would not have even messed with it with out the lake to work on . I am not trying to rob the guy or I would not be here to talk about it . Of course if the ice is bad that is on me , I did make it but it was my risk , I risked my self and equipment for his view.
The mistake I made was attempting to do it with our the use of the lake but he really wanted it done. I had to winch the trees and suckers over then up a hill about 60' over and 150' plus up . I just burned time , once I could get on the lake it was much easier . I was also told the boat lift would be gone , very tight lake lots with neighbors that do not seem to wan to be bothered or have anything on their property. But I am truly not wanting to over charge, I have done a LOT of work for him over the years but this thing was a bear, If I had good ice from the get go it would have been one thing but this year it just did not come, in fact three week before I done this the lake opened up to the north of me , springs and other issues besides the snow pack . I did not want to plow it because I wanted the snow pack to run on . a mini excavator broke though it last year right where I was working , much heavier than my machine but it was a WAY colder winter . When I looked at it , with the boat hoist gone , dock gone , and good ice I figured around 6500 in my head . Third worst snow fall in history , and no ice to work with was a game changer .

Just so you know I meant no ill in anything I said. we’re just talking here. I mean everything with the upmost respect

 

[661Joe]

Very simple you charge the amount you bid the job for. There should be no confusion.

This is what is confusing me? It sounds like there was no bid? I’m sorry but that’s not how you conduct business.

 

[661Joe]

Also if the lake did not freeze i had a possible access to go up through a neighbors yard but he was bucking pretty hard . Then I was up about a 500' switch back driveway and an agreement to pay for any damages to it .. The hill does not show but there are some stepped landscaped areas and old rock switch back steps, and old bell from the early 1900s . My main access was up the hill the right in the pic between the house and the tree, also the well was to the left of the tree. logs had to go way to the left to miss some concrete pillars that will have a deck on them and then back toward the house them up . three rigs per pull..

Again with all do respect for 12000$ I could have hired a damn helicopter and made a few cuts and still had thousands left over. I see this all the time companies tackle the job that you’re actually not capable of doing at a reasonable price. Not saying this is the case here. And then that transitions over to a customer. At the end of the day if it took you a week to perform the job that is on you. Again I don’t even normally engage in these conversations simply because I don’t want to upset anybody but I can assure you if you hit me with a $12,000 price tag on that tree And I was a homeowner and you didn’t discuss that at all with me prior I would tell you to get bent. you can rent a knuckleboom truck with 170 foot reach for a couple thousand dollars a month. There’s always more than one way to complete something and again it is super hard because I’m not there. I’ve done big trees in my time some of the biggest in the area, that’s actually what we specialize in hazardous crane removals. I can tell you I don’t see $6000 there let alone 12.

 

[Swamp Rooster]

Just so you know I meant no ill in anything I said. we’re just talking here. I mean everything with the upmost respect

I did not take it as you being ill toward me at all . I was just trying to explain the situation. It was just one of those nasty jobs that kept changing . Looking back once the lake did not freeze I had to start taking material up the hill and it was a LOT of hand work . I wanted to wait but he really wanted it done because of other things going on. I should have just said no because that is where the extra time really came in . Thanks for responding , no offence taken at all .

 

[661Joe]

Also something else to take into consideration, I, on a weekly basis do trees that dwarfs the one you done. With that being said, I might be a little more confident in the large trees, or I might’ve figured out a system that works best for my business. At the end of the day you can only do what you can do and if you feel that $12,000 is a just price. and if you feel that if the table was turned in, that was your tree, you would be happy with that quote then you already know what you’re going to do. You are the only one that knows how much money you invested into the job. I don’t don’t pass judgment and I don’t judge a book by the cover. ONLY YOU KNOW all the details. Again all of this I mean with love and respect. Stay safe and stay humble

 

[661Joe]

I did not take it as you being ill toward me at all . I was just trying to explain the situation. It was just one of those nasty jobs that kept changing . Looking back once the lake did not freeze I had to start taking material up the hill and it was a LOT of hand work . I wanted to wait but he really wanted it done because of other things going on. I should have just said no because that is where the extra time really came in . Thanks for responding , no offence taken at all .

I just wanted to make sure allot of times ppl get bent out of shape and I hate that. Especially when you’re my neighbor just across the pond. I just try to advise people and help people in anyway I can and I just wanted to make it very clear that I was not trying to disrespect you or beat you up in anyway because I have said a few things and I have made a few long post. It’s great to meet somebody with a good attitude. Thanks Joe.

 

[Swamp Rooster]

This is what is confusing me? It sounds like there was no bid? I’m sorry but that’s not how you conduct business.

I have been in business for over 30 years , have customers that I have had for over 20 and do some business with out a bid , most times I save them money doing so. Some things you can not big with out going WAY over to be safe . At least four different out fits came and looked at this and decided to not bid or not do it . I bid or give estimates most times but many times they get it done cheaper with out it . With out knowing what the lake would do for sure , what the snow fall would be I could not give a hard number . It it was a normal year where by the end of DEC and we had half a dozen days where it was -20F and we had 16 + inches of ice with a foot or so of snow it would be a cake walk. This year we had over 90'' of snow before the ice was kind of good ( it was never real good ice because of all the snow that had been on it . 4 good inches of ice the rest was rained on snow pack.. ) .. To give a number on those variables is hard to do.

 

[Bill G]

This is what is confusing me? It sounds like there was no bid? I’m sorry but that’s not how you conduct business.

Not at all

 

[Swamp Rooster]

I just wanted to make sure allot of times ppl get bent out of shape and I hate that. Especially when you’re my neighbor just across the pond. I just try to advise people and help people in anyway I can and I just wanted to make it very clear that I was not trying to disrespect you or beat you up in anyway because I have said a few things and I have made a few long post. It’s great to meet somebody with a good attitude. Thanks Joe.

No problem at all pal. I am just trying to figure a way to get paid for my extra work and the risk I took on the lake but I did not want it to get this high. He kept calling to see if it was done and the lake was just not freezing, snow pilling up , and I was think ...well I better take it up the hill.. It is an odd lake with springs and white fish , a lot of guy will not take a truck on it at all. I do know the lake a bit and most times am not afraid of it but this years had me nerves to be honest. I was hating life my first four or five trips down the lake , crossed one spot that was 70' deep. That first trip every time I broke though the layers of crust I knew I was going down LOL... Be a layer of is like an inch or so then water , then slush ...Nerve racking LOL... Again , thanks for taking time .

 

[661Joe]

I have been in business for over 30 years , have customers that I have had for over 20 and do some business with out a bid , most times I save them money doing so. Some things you can not big with out going WAY over to be safe . At least four different out fits came and looked at this and decided to not bid or not do it . I bid or give estimates most times but many times they get it done cheaper with out it . With out knowing what the lake would do for sure , what the snow fall would be I could not give a hard number . It it was a normal year where by the end of DEC and we had half a dozen days where it was -20F and we had 16 + inches of ice with a foot or so of snow it would be a cake walk. This year we had over 90'' of snow before the ice was kind of good ( it was never real good ice because of all the snow that had been on it . 4 good inches of ice the rest was rained on snow pack.. ) .. To give a number on those variables is hard to do.

Please share the snow with me. We needed it bad I’m jealous. I also have repeat customers but when it comes to something of that size or rather that much coin and that much work you owe it to yourself and to the customer to have a contract set in place remember at the end of the day you could’ve just done that tree for free, especially if you piss them off with an outrageous price. Just some thought

 

[661Joe]

No problem at all pal. I am just trying to figure a way to get paid for my extra work and the risk I took on the lake but I did not want it to get this high. He kept calling to see if it was done and the lake was just not freezing, snow pilling up , and I was think ...well I better take it up the hill.. It is an odd lake with springs and white fish , a lot of guy will not take a truck on it at all. I do know the lake a bit and most times am not afraid of it but this years had me nerves to be honest. I was hating life my first four or five trips down the lake , crossed one spot that was 70' deep. That first trip every time I broke though the layers of crust I knew I was going down LOL... Be a layer of is like an inch or so then water , then slush ...Nerve racking LOL... Again , thanks for taking time .

Yeah I bet it was nerve racking. Let me ask you this. What do you have into the job how much money how many hrs how many ppl were on the job?

 

[Swamp Rooster]

Please share the snow with me. We needed it bad I’m jealous. I also have repeat customers but when it comes to something of that size or rather that much coin and that much work you owe it to yourself and to the customer to have a contract set in place remember at the end of the day you could’ve just done that tree for free, especially if you piss them off with an outrageous price. Just some thought

pal , if I could pack this snow up and get it to you I would LOL.. I am not worried about him not paying , he is a good customer I just hate to charge that much even though the time was in . I think I will just go to him and sort it out . I would rather take a hit than have him feel like he got hammered . It always comes back in more work and people they know hiring .. I have good luck with customers treating me right but at time I stress over work. My wife laughs at me because I always wonder if it is good enough and they are always happy LOL. I really do have good customers and that is why I like to make sure I treat them right .