Never underestimate the twin evils that are stupidity and Phoenix Palms.

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KiwiBro

Mill 'em, nails be damned.
Joined
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Having not had nor knowing much about these palms and their thorns, I am living proof that ignorance is most certainly not bliss. So just a little heads-up in case anyone else is stupid enough to be pruning these with less than adequate protection.

A month ago I trimmed some at my sister's new place. Long story short, a frond fell on and spiked my foot - just where big toe meets rest of foot. No biggie I thought, a bit sore from the spike but figured it came out with the rest of the frond when I picked it up off my foot.

First lesson: these spikes have nasties that infect a puncture wound, even if the spike doesn't break off.

Well, was a bit sore for a few hours then blew up later that night and couldn't walk for two days. It calmed down after about 5 days to a dull ache but blew up whenever I even as much as tried to walk normally rather than on the outside of the foot. Let me tell you, it ain't no fun and ain't safe on uneven terrain dropping trees when your toe screams at even involuntary movement caused by automatic balance control.

As if reinforcing my own stupidity I followed a pattern of resting it for a few days then trying again only for it to be cruel agony after just 1/2 an hours work.

So, realising this ain't healing itself and I'd have to overcome my natural distaste for medical centres and hospitals I approached the former, did a weeks course of oral antibiotics and rest followed by 2hrs of work, lay on the couch in tears too sore to drive for a day and admitted myself to hospital the following day. therein I've had IV antibiotics - a 'shock dose' up front, then boosters every 6 hrs for a few days, scans have found a tiny fragment, a mere speck of the spike (or something that was on it) in my toe, and here's what I'm doing (or have at least been prescribed) for the next two weeks:

11 days of oral ab's (this on top of the first week of oral and the few days of IV ab's).
antiflams when needed
50 tablets of paracetamol
20 tablets of tramadol
30 tab of Morphine sulfate

oh, and don't forget the time off and laxatives to counter the clogging caused by the drugs I've had or are yet to take, although I'm not taking the tramadol or morphine as unless I'm almost fainting from the pain because i really hate the idea of drugs like these and the over prescription of 'em. I'm also scornful of the over prescription of ab's too but what's a guy to do when they won't cut it out? Yes, I've entertained the idea of seeing if I can dig it out myself - the scan pin-pointed where it is and I still have the pen mark on my toe.

Oh, and no, they aren't going to fish this speck out but have decided to ply me with drugs and let the body deal with it instead. So that's a total of about 6 weeks and pain I never thought could ever come from just a 'sore toe'.

If I only knew then what I know now...
 
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Sound like Pseudoacacia Nigra. Yup just as spiky and onry as it sounds. Hope ya heal up Kiwi.
Thanks. A few positives though:
1. Never will I disrespect these palms again - in fact i don't ever want to work on them again.
2. I got to further appreciate how hard nurses work when every day they are faced with such demoralising workloads, demands, patients, and some utterly mind-blowingly arrogant pricks calling them selves doctors and 'consultants'.
3. I also got immersed in a world of some pretty sick people and now appreciate that no matter how pissed off and invalided I feel it can most certainly be worse. One guy in a bed next to me has a 10% chance of making it out of theatre alive and even then he's got big risks of stroke or heart attack in the day/s post-op. He doesn't want to lay there getting bed sores dying in bed like he has for the last three weeks. His mind is sharp as a tack and we spun many yarns about fishing and what he's going to do when he gets out. I hope he pulls through and can get back to even a life in a wheelchair rather than dying in a hospital bed as his lungs collapse from laying there for weeks on end and pneumonia gets to him.
 
Wow, that sucks man! Sounds like you should have used like that leather suit the lemontree workers use...

Most...interesting..thorn like experience I ever had was the poisonous dorsal spine from a squirrelfish, or as they are called down in the gulf here, red bastards.

Punctured my hand, within 15 minutes my whole arm was swollen up like a sausage and couldnt do anything with it, hurt like it was about on fire. Spent two weeks out on the boat, no med care, nothing but aspirins and not many of those.

I would have chanced the morphine....It eventually healed up, but man.....
 
Time to dig it out, if the docs won't then it's up to you, or find a way to force the issue. Only too familiar with similar plant injuries around my neck of the woods(US,upper midwest) Buckthorn and Locust varieties nasty stuff always leave something behind. Figure those thorns are like quills on a porcupine, got little barbs on the circumference that resist extraction and cause them to work in deeper.
One of my best friends is an Exato knife with a new blade. Maybe I am just a hard case, my bud's significant other is always lecturing me on self surgery, her being a RN and all. The longer they fool around with the wait and see attitude the greater the risk of a blood stream infection and that is an extreme problem.
50 years ago my sister almost lost a leg to this type of scenario.
 
Time to dig it out, if the docs won't then it's up to you, or find a way to force the issue. Only too familiar with similar plant injuries around my neck of the woods(US,upper midwest) Buckthorn and Locust varieties nasty stuff always leave something behind. Figure those thorns are like quills on a porcupine, got little barbs on the circumference that resist extraction and cause them to work in deeper.
One of my best friends is an Exato knife with a new blade. Maybe I am just a hard case, my bud's significant other is always lecturing me on self surgery, her being a RN and all. The longer they fool around with the wait and see attitude the greater the risk of a blood stream infection and that is an extreme problem.
50 years ago my sister almost lost a leg to this type of scenario.
You read my mind as the scan said it's 4mm below the surface. But I got to figure out a legal way to get the effects of a local anaesthetic in there because the pain might make me too inaccurate to continue. I just don't want to start and find that happens. Perhaps I could pick up that Morphine prescription but that's not local and if it's anything like the morphine they gave me when I chopped my finger tip off I don't want to be working with sharp objects while on that as my head was all over the place.
 
If you want to dig it out look up sterile techniques. They are a certain set of rules and procedures for anything invasive. This is extremely important, as you are risking a bigger more dangerous infection if you contaminate the wound.

You already have all the pain meds you need for the procedure, get a drug book and look up morphine sulfate and find out the safe dosing. You are not going to get addicted or change the medical culture by your not taking it if you need it.

You can do it, and I understand why you want to do it. The doctor has his hands tied by existing protocalls and has less freedom than you think to choose your treatment.

And 4mm is deeper than you think when you are cutting your own toe.

Dan
 
If you want to dig it out look up sterile techniques. They are a certain set of rules and procedures for anything invasive. This is extremely important, as you are risking a bigger more dangerous infection if you contaminate the wound.

You already have all the pain meds you need for the procedure, get a drug book and look up morphine sulfate and find out the safe dosing. You are not going to get addicted or change the medical culture by your not taking it if you need it.

You can do it, and I understand why you want to do it. The doctor has his hands tied by existing protocalls and has less freedom than you think to choose your treatment.

And 4mm is deeper than you think when you are cutting your own toe.

Dan

How does the doctor have his hands tied on a splinter extraction??? Same medical establishment that can replace entire joints, somehow isnt allowed to go in and cut out a splinter? I honestly really dont understand this.
 
How does the doctor have his hands tied on a splinter extraction??? Same medical establishment that can replace entire joints, somehow isnt allowed to go in and cut out a splinter? I honestly really dont understand this.

Because, private and public insurance companies establish what they will pay and for what procedures. Medical studies establish accepted protocols for certain types of injuries. If a doc does not follow the established level of treatment, then he/she had better have a good reason to back it up if something goes wrong and the case winds up in litigation. And he she will also have to chase down a paycheck for he procedure from the third party payer.

People need new joints every day, and they have very good reasons for needing them, and the success rates for joint replacements are good. People do not often need advanced treatment, or die from septicemia or cellulitis unless there are other conditions that would make them susceptible. Remember, your doc has seen plenty of people today who are a lot closer to death than you are, so they look at things a little differently. Your discomfort is not that high on his list, that is more of the role of your nursing staff.

I can only comment on our USA system, no experience with health care in other countries.

I am not offering any medical advice, that is illegal for me to do. The cartels that control the medical liscensure in this country make sure to protect the interests of their paying members first. Yes, I pay money to the nursing cartel in my state, and it is mostly in my self interest.

Dan
 
Hope you'll be up and chasing the sheep again soon :tongue2:


And go back and relandscape, if youre asked, with a D7, 20 ton excavator and 10 yard tipper... Stay well clear and don't touch!
 
I feel for you, Phoenix is gnarly thorny and very fragile, and has a pollen for a lack of a better term that is pretty hyper-allergenic.

You Sir, seem to be under tolerant of this invader.

Usually, ones body would have absorbed/immunized/rendered neutral, this toxin, after this much time, and that many antibiotics.

The body given time and healthy to begin with, heals thyne own self.

I have to see a pic, before I suggest a treatment plan.

Sound advice from the internet, such as you have gotten above?

Remember I crushed my big toe about a year and a half ago? Sure, I knew what to do, but it just wasn't possible, when it was as acute as you have yours now. And I have a degree in Emergency Science.

Relax and keep an eyeball on it for infection. If it gets worse, the next step on the protocol might mean a surgery that keeps you from being able to feel the toe, or it feeling anything -the sense of touch would be worth having for, for a long time, like the end of the earth, the second coming, or the stars to align. None of which you would be here for - in other words -permanent.

I'm willing to bet its significant to show up on scan/film, and that doesn't make it easy, it makes it dangerous.

Youre big toe is pretty simple. Youre only having one big arterial and one veinous, and one nerve, if your Doctor is checking up on ####ing with it and you are believing him to be sincere, Then you are smart.

(Ig was riing a mowrr around a Phoenix Rhapiolepsis, got a 3/4 inch one under my scalp and my wife couldn't pull it out, had to have the dentist apease the entry and fillet the scalp enough to get it out. BUT, he is very good with delivering subque anesthetic and saw it as a challenge. Focker itched for two months., )
 
I feel for you, Phoenix is gnarly thorny and very fragile, and has a pollen for a lack of a better term that is pretty hyper-allergenic.

You Sir, seem to be under tolerant of this invader.

Usually, ones body would have absorbed/immunized/rendered neutral, this toxin, after this much time, and that many antibiotics.

The body given time and healthy to begin with, heals thyne own self.

I have to see a pic, before I suggest a treatment plan.

Sound advice from the internet, such as you have gotten above?

Remember I crushed my big toe about a year and a half ago? Sure, I knew what to do, but it just wasn't possible, when it was as acute as you have yours now. And I have a degree in Emergency Science.

Relax and keep an eyeball on it for infection. If it gets worse, the next step on the protocol might mean a surgery that keeps you from being able to feel the toe, or it feeling anything -the sense of touch would be worth having for, for a long time, like the end of the earth, the second coming, or the stars to align. None of which you would be here for - in other words -permanent.

I'm willing to bet its significant to show up on scan/film, and that doesn't make it easy, it makes it dangerous.

Youre big toe is pretty simple. Youre only having one big arterial and one veinous, and one nerve, if your Doctor is checking up on ####ing with it and you are believing him to be sincere, Then you are smart.

(Ig was riing a mowrr around a Phoenix Rhapiolepsis, got a 3/4 inch one under my scalp and my wife couldn't pull it out, had to have the dentist apease the entry and fillet the scalp enough to get it out. BUT, he is very good with delivering subque anesthetic and saw it as a challenge. Focker itched for two months., )

You know, now that i think abut it, you would have to be a tough dude to do this on yourself with oral pain meds. It sure sounds great to do it yourself but there are so many ways it can go bad.

I yield to a more reasonable position.

Dan
 
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