New bar - few questions

[joecool85]

I decided to get a 12" bar for my 36cc saw. It's a hard nose, asymetrical bar.

I have a few questions.

First, it only measures 11" from the front of the saw to the tip. Is this normal? My 14" bar measures 14" when mounted.

Second, the chain turns really hard even when the chain is set pretty loose. I haven't run it yet, maybe there is paint in the bar groove keeping it from turning real smooth?

Third, what do you guys think? I think it looks good, but I won't know how I like it till I run it.

Fourth, will this bar be more/less/same likely to cause kickback as the 14" symetrical low kickback bar that came on the saw?

Fifth, do I have it mounted right?

 

[stihl sawing]

The chain and bar could be a different gauge from each other, could be the wrong pitch chain for the drive sprocket. There a lot of things that can affect it. Get the numbers of the bar and chain and post them. A closer pic would be more helpful too.

 

[SawTroll]

Hard nose bars rob power - not a good thing on that saw.

Asymetrical bars are a bad idea anyway, as it can not be swapped around to distribute the wear.

 

[joecool85]

The chain and bar could be a different gauge from each other, could be the wrong pitch chain for the drive sprocket. There a lot of things that can affect it. Get the numbers of the bar and chain and post them. A closer pic would be more helpful too.

No numbers on the chain, I bought it as a set from a guy on ebay. Here is the listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200210021981&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=010

I'll get a closer pic and then one with the B&C off.

 

[joecool85]

Hard nose bars rob power - not a good thing on that saw.

Asymetrical bars are a bad idea anyway, as it can not be swapped around to distribute the wear.

It was cheap and I'm pretty sure hardnose or not, 36cc can pull a 12" bar.

The chain slides freely in the bar when it isn't on the saw, maybe I'm over tightening it? I tighten it to the point where the tangs can't be pulled all the way out of the groove with a pretty good tug (from the middle of the bar).

You'll notice there are no numbers on the chain.

Did I have it mounted right btw?

 

[HolmenTree]

We used to call asymetrical bars [banana nose bars] Oregon made them up until the mid 1980s with sprocket tips then replaced them with the Double Guard for the reason of flipping them over.Power robbing hard nose on that small saw is a bad idea.

 

[joecool85]

We used to call asymetrical bars [banana nose bars] Oregon made them up until the mid 1980s with sprocket tips then replaced them with the Double Guard for the reason of flipping them over.Power robbing hard nose on that small saw is a bad idea.

This thread lead me to believe that the losses would be pretty much negligable: http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=64623&highlight=hardnose

 

[SawTroll]

My logic tells me it is on the right way, as the small "radius" is in the kick-back zone of the bar - but I could be wrong as I don't know the theory behind them.

Other observations;

(1) It will be hard to do decent felling cuts close to the bar length the way it is on.

(2) Get rid of that "wank-link" chain, and get decent ones, like Oregon 91VX or VS, or Stihl 63PM.

 

[joecool85]

My logic tells me it is on the right way, as the small "radius" is in the kick-back zone of the bar - but I could be wrong as I don't know the theory behind them.

Other observations;

(1) It will be hard to do decent felling cuts close to the bar length the way it is on.

(2) Get rid of that "wank-link" chain, and get decent ones, like Oregon 91VX or VS, or Stihl 63PM.

What do you mean by "the bar length the way it is on."? Do you mean it's too short of a bar for doing felling cuts? I'm only planning on using this saw for cutting small trees, clearing paths and limbing. I have access to my dad's Poulan 2375 w/18" bar for felling larger trees.

 

[HolmenTree]

This thread lead me to believe that the losses would be pretty much negligable: http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=64623&highlight=hardnose

Yep the bar is on right [flat top of bar on top] .You get very little or no kickback at all with this tip style[smaller kickback zone= less kickback energy]. Just I never saw one this small before and with a solid tip. You can get by no problem with this bar just expect to lose power when you cut with the tip.

The large forestry company I used to work for had a policy of small radius sprocket nose safety tips only .Where we logged all our saws were 60 to 90 cc with 18" to 20" bars and chains.We felled ,limbed and topped. If you were caught using a regular tip you were suspended for 3 days with no pay. Oregon first made the banana tip in the late 1970s then replaced it with the double guard around 1985, Windsor made the Mini-Pro safety tip all thru the 1980s. We had virtually no kickback accidents only guys cutting themselves tripping and falling on their saws.

 

[joecool85]

Ok, well, I've narrowed my problem down. No matter how loose I set the chain, if I tighten the nuts to any higher than 30 in/lbs (2.5 ft/lbs), the chain won't rotate without a lot of force and two gloved hands. I have to admit, the bar seems nice and tight (no movement up and down no matter how hard I push) with only 30 in/lbs on the nuts...maybe I over tighten my bars normally?

 

[gremlin]

30 IN/lbs is kinda low i would think. Maybe im wrong. what does the owners manual recomend??

 

[masiman]

Ok, well, I've narrowed my problem down. No matter how loose I set the chain, if I tighten the nuts to any higher than 30 in/lbs (2.5 ft/lbs), the chain won't rotate without a lot of force and two gloved hands. I have to admit, the bar seems nice and tight (no movement up and down no matter how hard I push) with only 30 in/lbs on the nuts...maybe I over tighten my bars normally?

No one asked, but is the brake on? Probably not, but you gotta ask.

 

[joecool85]

30 IN/lbs is kinda low i would think. Maybe im wrong. what does the owners manual recomend??

The manual just says to "tighten securely." It does seem low, but then again, the Poulan Pro 4620 uses a plastic knob to tighten the bar, I'm sure it's as tight or tighter than that system can do.

And no Masiman, the brake is not on.

 

[PB]

With a hard nose bar, the chain should hang a little. You have it too tight.

 

[SawTroll]

What do you mean by "the bar length the way it is on."? Do you mean it's too short of a bar for doing felling cuts? I'm only planning on using this saw for cutting small trees, clearing paths and limbing. I have access to my dad's Poulan 2375 w/18" bar for felling larger trees.

Nothing complicated - but the reasonably level part on the down side of the bar is way shorter than the total length.

....and the Wild thingy has way to little power for an 18" bar, unless your time doesn't count.......

13-14" is more appropriate.

 

[SawTroll]

With a hard nose bar, the chain should hang a little. You have it too tight.

Yes, forgot to say that!

 

[joecool85]

Nothing complicated - but the reasonably level part on the down side of the bar is way shorter than the total length.

....and the Wild thingy has way to little power for an 18" bar, unless your time doesn't count.......

I agree about the wild thing, it can't do more than 15-16" of wood, luckily I haven't needed to take out any trees larger than that yet.

And Plant Biologist, like I said, no matter how loose the chain is it still binds up when I tighten the nuts. I had 2+ inches of slack away from the bar and it did the same thing. It's actually squeezing the rails a bit. Probably poor design on the saw's part (Poulan) or the bar.

 

[SawTroll]

Ok, well, I've narrowed my problem down. No matter how loose I set the chain, if I tighten the nuts to any higher than 30 in/lbs (2.5 ft/lbs), the chain won't rotate without a lot of force and two gloved hands. I have to admit, the bar seems nice and tight (no movement up and down no matter how hard I push) with only 30 in/lbs on the nuts...maybe I over tighten my bars normally?

Remember to lift the bar tip up when you adjust and tighten the bar nuts, and tighten the front one first.

 

[joecool85]

Remember to lift the bar tip up when you adjust and tighten the bar nuts, and tighten the front one first.

Yup, that's how I always tighten chains. I should note I haven't had any problems with any other saws/bars (this saw w/14" bar, the wild thing w/18" bar and an electric w/16" bar).