New belly line setup?

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Thanks for sharing that story Tom.

Funny thing is, about half the people that read it will say, " That's why I almost always tie in twice."
The other half will say, "I would never cut my rope, I don't need a second tie in."

Assume you own a tree company, from which group would you want your climbers from?

One situation I might not have a second tie in, is if I come down from my tie in point in a safe tree down to a hazard tree, to do some work.

 

[Oxman]

As an 18 year old climber in a hurry, I cut my rope with a chainsaw, fell out of the tree because of no flipline, and broke my arm.

This is the abbreviated version of the story, which has been on the web before. It might have been better for those who have to listen to my ragging if the break had been in the neck area, instead of the arm, so you wouldn't have to deal with this pain.

"Pride goeth before the fall"

 

[X-man]

I like to think of it as an automobile! Sure the lapbelt saved many lives, however the addition of the shoulder belt has saved more!

If the Rock climbers are going to back up the systems they use, shouldn't arbos do the same just in case!

You only live once!

X-man

 

[murphy4trees]

I Am definitely in favor of two tie-ins for most cuts. And I can think of a number of common situations where it is not practical to use a lanyard.
1. Making a cut that might kick back towards the climber, requiring pushing off or swinging away as soon as the cut is made. (this is acceptable under the new standard)
2. Cutting a limb which is hanging on a lowering line to reduce size before being lowered. Climber must often reach down or out to make such cuts and can't do so while tied in with a regular lanyard.
3. Reaching around a large trunk to cut a small stub or sucker when descending past lowest branch, just prior to completing pruning.
I also have concerns about the efficiency of keeping a lanyard clipped at all times when cutting little suckers in a big tree that requires lots of movement.
So maybe we ought to be thinking about recommending double tie ins at all times when using a chainsaw. What are the implications? Are climbers willing to carry and manage the extra hardware? Seems like that would slow a good climber down considerably. Maybe it’s worth the added safety.
If highway speed limits were set at 45mph there would no doubt be far fewer traffic fatalities. How many highway deaths are worth the added convenience of driving at higher speeds? Tough questions.
Daniel

 

[Nickrosis]

Daniel, that is the law. You tie in twice when using a chainsaw. It is a good habit to be tied in twice when you use a handsaw, though. In competition, you have to lanyard in before you ring a bell at a station.

1. When would that happen? There is no such circumstance in safe climbing practices.
2. Take a small piece in the first place.
3. With a chainsaw?? I hope not. A handsaw or handsnip would be the only appropriate too I can think of. Suckers are not to be removed by a chainsaw unless you're preparing to basal prune.

A handsaw should be standard on every climb that I can think of and a chainsaw should be optional. That's my point of view.

Nickrosis

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Well, trust this!

Hanging from 1/2" of nylon highway; running a piece of power cutting equipment around it; is about nuts anyway!

So give yourself a chance; and develop a smooth habit of doing it write; that is so polished, smooth and quick; that there is no reason to appreciably address that it takes too much time. Then once you get to that attainable level; would there be any other reason?

Then use your greater command of that setting to catapult you into more understanding, command and speed in other areas; to even get done in less time. If you can outsmart the situation, a lot of safety techniques can actually increase productivity. Just like a lifeline can slow you down at first; then become a source of transportation.

Nothing has polished my climbing technique, rigging, understanding and skill; more than going without spurs, thus learning even more secrets from my rope; and how to use it.

You can turn it all around and surpass it, and learn from the extra effort.

 

[Tim Walsh]

This has been a most interesting thread. If anyone has any doubts about why we should be double-tied when using a chain saw in a tree, I'll email the OSHA fatality data that I have. If TD's "Widows and orphans" doesn't get your attention the stats will.

The is a large number of fatalities that are classified as "cut single tie in point." Safe might be cumbersome and slow but dead is forever.

I have all of the OSHA recorded fatality data for our profession from 1984-2002 organized in an Excel spreadsheet. Email me if you would like it.


Thanks,

TMW

PS Take a look at the Tree Worker, March 2002 I think for some thoughts on different kinds of AFC (adjustable false crotches).

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Tim wrote:
"Safe might be cumbersome and slow but dead is forever. "

I think in some cases this may be true at first, but with practice, skill, and understanding, the safe methods also become the fast methods.

When I started a couple decades ago I was not as fast as I am now, and now I try to use as many of the safe working techniques as I know.

For example, when I wasn't wearing safty glasses, I didn't have to stop to wipe the sweat off them and adjust them several times a day, but with them I don't spend 20 minutes a day standing in the truck mirror, digging chips out of my eyes. Overall I am faster witht them on.

Start using the double tie in, it soon becomes habit. The lanyard go on and comes off in seconds, and once tied, it often gives you a more comfortable positioning. Agian, faster and more productive.

 

[murphy4trees]

Tim,
Glad to get your post, which seems to confirm my thought that the reason Ansi instituted the 2 t.i. rule was because too many injuries were resulting from cut lines. So my question is.. has anyone looked at the specific situations, types of cuts etc.. that were behind these single line cuts to see if the two t.i rule could be resticted to certain types of cuts, situations etc.. If there is a pattern(s) to line cutting, it would be good to get that info out.
My guess would be that most line cuts occur when either 1. working down a spar, 2. making a cut using a lowerring line 3. holding the saw with one hand or 4. making an overhead cut.
Unfortunately, as the stats show, a lot of the climbers who cut their lines aren't around to give the details, so this kind of data may be hard to get. Until that data becomes available following the 2t.i. rule is the safe way to go.
Daniel