new clean burn act wood heaters

[deerjackie]

Has anyone had the pleasure of replacing an old heater with a new clean burn act stove with all the air draw holes in the ash pan door? Thank god for fender washers, pipe is talll but even with eve of house, and this*(&^%$% ran away like a freight train, stove co says overdraft and i said bs, never had smoke in house with this set up, not shortening pipe to make stove work right and its all fine now that all holes are plugged.

 

[stihly dan]

What kind of stove is it?

 

[deerjackie]

ashley by us stove co

 

[Fyrebug]

Thank god for fender washers, pipe is talll but even with eve of house, and this*(&^%$% ran away like a freight train, stove co says overdraft and i said bs, never had smoke in house with this set up, not shortening pipe to make stove work right and its all fine now that all holes are plugged.

I think you are mistaking 'overdraft' with 'back draft' or 'poor draft'. They are opposite.

I have a tall inside chimney and I went crazy on the insert and liner insulation. I have overdraft... My burn time are not as good as i'd like and it burns fast & hot...

In a stove, you control overdraft with a key damper in the flue. Which is not usually recommended for the new EPA stoves...

 

[Ayatollah]

Overdraft is a problem for me to, having a two story install. I installed a damper just above the stove, but like someone else mentioned in another thread, id inspired some creosote build-up.
Even outside the pipe in the chimney, the heat builds up pretty strong current immediately if you lift the top plate. Physics of heat are a bit hard to master with our still primitive means

 

[woodchuck357]

I don't know didly stuff about EPA stoves

but with all of the primitive poorly designed stoves I have used over the many years, a combination of draft control(below the fire) and damper control(in the flue) is used to control the burn rate. Maybe some of these new bureaucraticly designed stoves are trying to get back to a really good design, and missed it a little.

When I hear someone talking about having to keep the stove door open for a while to get a fire started, I know they have a poorly designed stove.:cool2:

 

[Whitespider]

When I hear someone talking about having to keep the stove door open for a while to get a fire started, I know they have a poorly designed stove.

I believe near everyone here knows I ain't gonna' defend EPA certified stoves, but...

Over the years I've owned close to a dozen wood-burning apparatuses, and at one-time-or-another used maybe three times that many... none (until now) were EPA certified and several were home/self-built. I gotta' say, this EPA thing I have now (and I hate it) is the easiest lighting of any and all I have experience with. Although the primary air comes in from the top, there is a small amount of air coming in along the bottom front blowing directly on the fire (Pacific Energy calls it boost air). I pack the firebox to maximum capacity with full-size splits, shove a small wad of dryer lint between a couple of them, squirt lint with a bit of liquid fire accelerant, light and immediately close door... presto, fire.

And while I'm in the mood to say good things about my new-fangled excuse for a wood-fired heater...
Even though I'm running it with a (not recommended) flue damper to control draft, not once, not one single time has there been even the slightest whiff of wood smoke in the house... even when barometric conditions have rapidly/dramatically changed. And, after burning 5-6 cord in it this winter the flue damper still spins free... indicating (to me, anyway) the flue pipe is whistle clean.

And to the OP... It's been my experience that smoke in the house is caused by one-of-two things...

1. Poor Draft... can be caused by several things, such as plugged/restricted flue, wind direction, improper chimney, cold chimney, just to name a few (I've heard of the house being too tight, not allowing air to make-up the difference, but I've never experienced that).
2. Operator Error... the most common being the closing of the flue damper a bit too far for the conditions (see Poor Draft above).

 

[mizzou]

I believe near everyone here knows I ain't gonna' defend EPA certified stoves, but...

Say it aint so!!!:cool2:

 

[Fyrebug]

Aaaah Whitespider... come to the dark side... Do not resist it...

 

[Chris-PA]

Is this one of the "wood circulator" stoves? https://www.usstove.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=310

If so, these do not look like they have secondary combustion systems - they look like a box with a flap door controlled with a bi-metal strip thermostat?

From the manual of the BEC95:

"In the unlikely event that your heater “overfires” ( a condition evidence by elbows, stovepipes, and connectors glowing red
in appearance or otherwise discoloring), then your installation is subject to excessive draft created by either a chimney too
tall or too great in diameter in conjunction with its height, or some other factor of an indeterminate cause. In this event, you
should install a barometric draft regulator. Such installation will preclude any overfiring and/or any hazardous conse-
quences of potential overfiring."

but with all of the primitive poorly designed stoves I have used over the many years, a combination of draft control(below the fire) and damper control(in the flue) is used to control the burn rate. Maybe some of these new bureaucraticly designed stoves are trying to get back to a really good design, and missed it a little.

When I hear someone talking about having to keep the stove door open for a while to get a fire started, I know they have a poorly designed stove.:cool2:

This is not so. A modern secondary combustion stove is not designed to blow large quantities of air through the firebox during normal combustion. They need a strong draft because there is a fair amount of restriction to airflow through the manifold and ducting, and starting may require propping the door open to get more airflow. That does not mean they are poorly designed.

The ones that bother me are the ones that have no ability to limit the primary air, only the secondary air. If I had one of those in my basement with the strong flue there, I could not keep control over it without the ability to limit primary air.

 

[woodchuck357]

Just one old fart's opinion,

If something can't be controlled, it needs redesigned, rebuilt, or thrown out.

 

[stihly dan]

My primary would close tight, but the 30% min secondary would go over a thousand deg, then coal. It sucked.

 

[Chris-PA]

My primary would close tight, but the 30% min secondary would go over a thousand deg, then coal. It sucked.

This is what I meant. My US Stoves Magnolia has one control that limits both primary and secondary, so I can pretty much shut the thing off if it over-fires. I never realized they were not all that way, until I got the Hampton H200 we have upstairs. It's a sweet little stove and I don't have a problem because it is on a shorter chimney, but I don't think I could use one like that in the basement. I don't understand how they can expect that to work.

 

[stihly dan]

They don't care. By forcing you to keep X % air all the time, they can pass EPA standards. That is the only reason the stoves don't let you close them tight. God forbid you get a chimney fire, no way to snub it out.

 

[deerjackie]

I think you are mistaking 'overdraft' with 'back draft' or 'poor draft'. They are opposite.

I have a tall inside chimney and I went crazy on the insert and liner insulation. I have overdraft... My burn time are not as good as i'd like and it burns fast & hot...

In a stove, you control overdraft with a key damper in the flue. Which is not usually recommended for the new EPA stoves...

it has a manual damper but with the holes left open it would runaway still.its all been plugged off and does fine now.

 

[slowp]

I control the burn with the amount and size of wood I put in, plus the dampers on the stove. Yes, the EPA stoves burn vigorously. Mine won't smolder for hours like the old stoves. Smoldering is what causes heavy smoke.

I start a fire every morning, and I crack the door open to get it going.

Smaller chunks of wood get the heat going. Then, when the house is warmed up, I put the bigger chunks in--only a couple, and that maintains the heat.

I get smoke in the house when I'm trying to start the fire and the kindling doesn't take right off and I'm blowing on the paper to get it going. I also get smoke in the house sometimes when the whole house fan is going. I think that sucks smoke into the house through the house window vents. That fan has to be shut off when opening the stove door up, or smoke will come out. The kitchen fan can do the same thing.

One needs to be patient and crack the door open slightly and hesitating before opening the door all the way. Older stoves sometimes had that requirement, but the EPA ones definitely have that need.

My stove was installed by the stove dealer.

 

[Rsquared]

If something can't be controlled, it needs redesigned, rebuilt, or thrown out.

I keep telling my wife this, but she ain't buying it...:msp_ohmy: