new here with large log splitter questions.

[jewelerjake]

I recently picked up a fairly large homemade vertical guillotine splitter. I have a few questions about the setup as it seems underpowered. it has 2 4"x40" cylinders, can handle a 40" wide piece of wood. the pump is a Vickers vane pump. that came with the splitter. I put a Subaru 9hp motor on it. on softwood under say 20" it does ok, but anything over that and the pump just stalls out. I assume that makes it a single stage pump, but I'm not sure. what would give it a little more grunt for the big pieces? a bigger motor? a 2 stage pump? both? just don't know which way to go. the splitting 'wedge' is 40"wide by 20" tall by 1.5" thick solid steel plate. both hydraulic cylinders work simultaneously.

By the way, this thing was hard to move, man! I guess that's why the guy got rid of it so cheap. everyone in my family thought I was crazy going from a maul to this thing, but hopefully it saves my back. I borrowed my FIL's splitter and I had to lift each piece up onto the bed. it was a stationary horizontal thing. almost more work than it was worth, but no lifting with this one!

 

[muddstopper]

I am pretty sure your stalling problems are the size of the engine. A Vickers vane pump is a single stage pump. Not knowing the size of the pump, it would be very hard to recommend a engine size to pull it with. Vickers pumps have numbers stamped on them that give the specs of that pump. You can do a little google search and find the code for the numbers pretty easy. If your plans are to stick with the 9hp engine, I would guess you will be looking for a two stage pump. A 16gpm 2stage is about all you can pull with the 9 hp engine. Since you are using twin pusher cyl, you might get by with a 22gpm 2stage pump as long as you keep the pressure requirements low. 2-4in cyl would have about the same splitting force as one 6in cyl, tonnage would still be pretty good at 2000psi (27tons) instead of the 3000psi (42tons) everybody normally tries to get to. I suspect that unless you are splitting mostly narly stuff all the time, you dont need 42 tons of splitting force anyways.

 

[jewelerjake]

I am pretty sure your stalling problems are the size of the engine. A Vickers vane pump is a single stage pump. Not knowing the size of the pump, it would be very hard to recommend a engine size to pull it with. Vickers pumps have numbers stamped on them that give the specs of that pump. You can do a little google search and find the code for the numbers pretty easy. If your plans are to stick with the 9hp engine, I would guess you will be looking for a two stage pump. A 16gpm 2stage is about all you can pull with the 9 hp engine. Since you are using twin pusher cyl, you might get by with a 22gpm 2stage pump as long as you keep the pressure requirements low. 2-4in cyl would have about the same splitting force as one 6in cyl, tonnage would still be pretty good at 2000psi (27tons) instead of the 3000psi (42tons) everybody normally tries to get to. I suspect that unless you are splitting mostly narly stuff all the time, you dont need 42 tons of splitting force anyways.

So hooking up a stronger motor could solve the stalling problem? I have an 18 hp. too much?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Not enough.

For that much cylinder I'd be looking for at least the 30-40hp area so you can run a decent gpm pump and it not be super slow. I'd say 30 gpm area wouldn't be terrible on speed.

 

[jewelerjake]

Not enough.

For that much cylinder I'd be looking for at least the 30-40hp area so you can run a decent gpm pump and it not be super slow. I'd say 30 gpm area wouldn't be terrible on speed.

so... would a pto pump be better? I have an 8n and a small kubota. I'm not in a position to spend a ton on new pump AND motor. I would be delving into uncharted territory with this setup, for me anyway. thoughts?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

What gpm is your pump? It may be properly sized.

 

[jewelerjake]

What gpm is your pump? It may be properly sized.

not sure. how do I tell on a vickers? it has a few patent dates on it.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Dunno. Inlet and outlet size, body size, etc.
Call an Eaton dealer maybe?

I'm not familiar with Vickers aside from knowing they make pumps.

 

[muddstopper]

https://www.hydraulic-supply.com/pdf/HSCCatalog/HydraulicTechInfo.pdf

My guess, and thats all it is is just a guess, you have either a v10 or a v20 vickers pump. These pumps range between 1gpm and 20 gpm. They are usually a low rpm pump, 1750-2000 rpms. Until you know what size your pump is, you will only be wasting money trying to size a engine to pull it with. The pump should have some numbers on it, you can use the link I provided to decode the pump size. Every V10 or V20 pump I have ever seen can be converted from CW rotation to CC rotation by simply changing the center section, (cartridge), orientation. The center section will have a arrow cast into the housing showing the direction of rotation.
Your 18hp engine will pull about a 14gpm flow as long as the pressure is kept at 2000psi or less. If you feel the need to go to 3000psi your 18hp engine will only pull about 9gpm. Either of these flow rates will result in a very slow splitter considering you have 2 4in bore cyl's. Your best bet would be to use your 18hp engine and buy a 22 or 28 gpm two stage pump. This setup would give yo power and speed.

I just did the math and using a 14gpm pump is only going to give you about a 37sec cycle time. 9gpm is 58sec cycle. The 28gpm 2 stage pump should give you about a 18sec cyl time, which would be pretty good considering a 40in stroke.

 

[cantoo]

Before we encourage you to spend more money you might want top give us a little more info.
What are you burning in?
What length do you need (want) to burn?
How much wood do you need for a normal year?
Lots more info would be nice.
Dirty Hand Tools make a decent home owner splitter for as much money as you will need to spend to make that thing perform.
I just made a 36" splitter using a Chinese 13 hp and 16 gpm pump. I was just splitting ash rounds and I got it stuck a few times. Bigger is always better but the valves, hoses, pump and engine to run twin 40" cylinders at a decent speed will buy a lot of oil.

 

[muddstopper]

Cantoo brings up some good points about cost. Speed and power cost money. I am assuming since the machine is already running, just under powered, that the CV,and plumbing is already in place. Since the OP says he has a 18hp engine, his only real expense would be buying the 28gpm pump. Dynamic 28gpm 2 stage pump at Surplus center is $231. I think SplitEze might be a little cheaper, or was when I bought mine.

 

[cantoo]

Muddstopper, he might need new hoses to flow all that oil? 1/2" will do 25 gpm as long as short runs and no bad 90's? Cylinder outlet size? I wanted to go faster on mine but in the end decided that the next step up was just too much money for what I really need. I already have way too much invested in firewood stuff. I could likely split all the wood I would need for a year in less than 2 easy days. I have $3000 invested just in the new splitter. My speeco would have done me fine but I wanted to save some handling and cut down on my total hours for wood production.

 

[Joesell]

Why not just try the 18hp engine and see what it does?

I'm not great at math but it seems like that would cost nothing to try.

 

[muddstopper]

Muddstopper, he might need new hoses to flow all that oil? 1/2" will do 25 gpm as long as short runs and no bad 90's? Cylinder outlet size? I wanted to go faster on mine but in the end decided that the next step up was just too much money for what I really need. I already have way too much invested in firewood stuff. I could likely split all the wood I would need for a year in less than 2 easy days. I have $3000 invested just in the new splitter. My speeco would have done me fine but I wanted to save some handling and cut down on my total hours for wood production.

Your right about the might haves, could haves. Op hasnt supplied enough information to say for sure. But the thing to consider is that those 2 stage pumps have flow rates at high rpms. I never run my machine wide open so therefore I probably aint pumping 28gpm even under no load. Another is that most of those pumps are only about 85% efficient, so while I would prefer 3/4in hose and fittings, ( what I used), in reality, a smaller hose would work. Not the best setup, but workable.

Joesell you bring up another good point. Just changeing engines would allow him to use the pump he has and still produce more force. Hp is only needed as the pressure rises. Not knowing at what pressure his current engines is stalling at, its a saft bet that the larger engine would allow more pressure build up before it stalls. Since we dont know what the flow rate is on his pump, if the pump is 9gpm or less, then the engine should allow pressure all the way up to 3000psi before his engine stalls. I wouldnt want to wait the 58sec it would take his 40in stroke to cycle, but if the OP is fine with that speed, then I am too.

 

[jewelerjake]

Your right about the might haves, could haves. Op hasnt supplied enough information to say for sure. But the thing to consider is that those 2 stage pumps have flow rates at high rpms. I never run my machine wide open so therefore I probably aint pumping 28gpm even under no load. Another is that most of those pumps are only about 85% efficient, so while I would prefer 3/4in hose and fittings, ( what I used), in reality, a smaller hose would work. Not the best setup, but workable.

Joesell you bring up another good point. Just changeing engines would allow him to use the pump he has and still produce more force. Hp is only needed as the pressure rises. Not knowing at what pressure his current engines is stalling at, its a saft bet that the larger engine would allow more pressure build up before it stalls. Since we dont know what the flow rate is on his pump, if the pump is 9gpm or less, then the engine should allow pressure all the way up to 3000psi before his engine stalls. I wouldnt want to wait the 58sec it would take his 40in stroke to cycle, but if the OP is fine with that speed, then I am too.

I replaced all hoses when I got unit. all 1/2" except for the line from tank to pump. it is 1.5". inlet and outlet on pump are 3/4" I think. someone asked about fireplace. it's a double door fisher insert that is 34" front to back. I go through probably 3 cord a year, give or take. I have around 20 cord of softwood to split and maybe 10 cord oak. the splitter is fully functional it just needs a little something extra. I'm not looking for world record speed here as I can usually split 3 pieces of wood simultaneously. just need some more splitting power .

 

[cantoo]

3 cord of wood a year, seriously look at the Dirty Hand Tools rig and call it a day. According to ad they will split a 25" long round and around $1200 is a pretty good deal.

 

[jewelerjake]

3 cord of wood a year, seriously look at the Dirty Hand Tools rig and call it a day. According to ad they will split a 25" long round and around $1200 is a pretty good deal.

no doubt, but I have $250 in the current setup total, and buying another splitter is really out of the question. besides, this one works, I just need to figure out how to get it to work a little better.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

You need to get the specs on your pump or just replace it with a known spec pump.

 

[Shagbark]

So hooking up a stronger motor could solve the stalling problem? I have an 18 hp. too much?

The first thing I would do if the 9hp Subaru stalls, is install the 18hp engine I already had in inventory.

 

[muddstopper]

If you cant use the info in the link I supplied to decode your pump. post the number on the pump and someone can do it for you. You could have a gold plated Lincoln, but the way your lack of details leaves everyone thinking Yugo.