new wood splitter on the way

[maplemeister]

I am currently trying to get set up for part time firewood sales and would
appreciate any help from this forum. I have burned wood all my adult life and
have a considerable amount of experience with chain saw use although not
at a professional level. At present I have a small Echo trim saw, a Husky
50 Special with 18" bar, and a Stihl 441 Magnum. I also have Chaps, full
head gear, gloves and I use them. I am hauling my wood with a 12 ft. landscape trailer at present and can get about 100 cf per load if I round it
up good. I know I am pushing the weight limit with this setup but have no
choice until I can afford a dump truck or dump trailer. I cut 12 cord so far this fall and hauled it out of the woods with my 4 wheeler and a John Deere
cart. I also have an American model AM25HH on order and expect to take
delivery around late November or early December. This unit has the Honda
8hp GX engine, 4 way wedge option, wedge backer, and table grate to catch
the wood after it is split. Also has the 13" high speed tires so it is very easy
to transport. I looked at quite a few splitters and really liked the features on
this model and the overall design. Is there anyone on this forum that has
actually used this model splitter and if so, how has it worked out for you. Any
advice from those who have gone down this road before is appreciated.

Maplemeister:greenchainsaw:

 

[avalancher]

Well,it sounds like you are set up just as well as the majority of us for equipement except for those guys that sell wood big time. Are you planning on selling anything this year? If your splitter isnt going to be here until December and you dont have anything split months ago you may be out of luck unless you advertise green wood which is not a big seller in the winter months.

 

[maplemeister]

:greenchainsaw: In addition to the 12 cord of green wood I just cut, I also have 5 cord of 18 month dry mixed hardwood, and 5 cord of rock maple that will have 8 months of drying time by December. I plan on selling all the dry and seasoned wood this winter to help pay for the splitter. I will spend the rest of my available time this winter trying to build inventory and arrange a supply line for reasonably priced log length wood. Right now, log length is selling for $100.00 a cord and up, and green cut, split, and delivered is going for around $210.00 per cord. Is it possibe to make a decent profit with these kinds of numbers or should I look for a cheaper source of supply? (OPTION) I have a forty horse J.D. tractor with bucket also and might be able to talk some local landowners into letting me cut all their down, dead, storm damaged trees in exchange for supplying them with winter wood.
I know there are many variables but can anyone tell me how many cords of
wood I might be able to produce in a average 8 hr day with the AM25HH.

maplemeister

 

[wdchuck]

You can find used dump trucks for the price of a dump trailer, and still have a trailer with your splitter behind you.

A one ton of any make will work, four wheel drive is not necessary, nice, but not necessary, focus on good tire tread pattern.
If you go this route, watch your gvw's, there are three ratings on one ton trucks, and I'd suggest a #14,500 gvw, the heaviest of the three. The engine choices will likely be a big block V-8, or diesel, and if the rear gears are 4.30 -4.86 you will have no problem empty or loaded.
Second to that, and will still be a dual rear wheel, is around #11-12K gvw. Okay, but you may end up with small V-8 and 4.10 rear gears, and its rough when you have a load of wood and a trailer to pull when you are coming home from your wood source.
The last one ton setup, has single rear wheels and just isn't worth bothering with for your purpose.

Now, insurance, Commercial auto insurance is needed for one ton trucks, and the connected trailer, its not very expensive actually, but the registration, choose your plates for your fullest loaded and a little more, better to be over plated and underweight than the other way around, and be prepared for sticker shock at the DMV.

That splitter setup sounds great, add a conveyor and you can reduce your handling and time considerably. A log lift will save your back on the big rounds.
Leave the splitter at home, get your wood out of the woods in rounds or logs, you will get much more inventory home for the fuel/time consumed.

Who will be doing the maintenance on your equipment, are you mechanically inclined, or do you have a good mechanic and is their a reliable towing outfit in the areas you work? If you have a roadside breakdown, and are loaded, the constable can use it as a good time to check you over, and being prepared is a lot cheaper than the fines.

The trailer, in our state, any trailer rated over #3000 requires registration, there is also a requirement for electric brakes if used commercially, then the insurance on the trailer, and the brake controller from the tow vehicle. All things to research and get hypothetical quotes on at this time.

If you go the whole way, and get a tax ID#, general liability insurance, and form an LLC to protect your personal assets, then do some number crunching to see just what volume you need to handle to accomodate this.

Covering your butt, makes for peace of mind when you are going down the road, having the right equipment for the job makes it easier on you, and if it doesn't work out, is much easier to liquidate.

One last piece of equipment, major expense too, is a skidsteer or tractor with a root grapple attachment, it will make your operation so much more efficient its amazing.

You are just starting out, but make a plan, and that includes costing out your equipment for the long term.

My personal opinion on selling green wood, if the customer is new to woodburning, its a creosote buildup turn chimney fire situation just waiting to happen. I'd rather recommend another source for them than have that on my conscience.

Good luck with everything, ask lots of questions, go find some big operations to get ideas, even work for them a little if you can, good experience.

 

[Zodiac45]

Without a processor, your gona bust butt, I promise you. I don't think you'll find tree length for less than 100 a cord either but cut split prices are all 200+ so it's a matter of how much you can pump out. In my opinion, 2 cords a day is about all a one man operation can sustain and even at that it's allot of work. The rule of thumb around here has always been double the tree length at minimum for cut/split and a premium for seasoned. I wish you luck, it's a tough job.

 

[maplemeister]

Thank you Wdchuck and Zodiack for your input. There is certainly a lot of good stuff to mull over in your posts. I am currently registered as a sole
proprietership. Is that a disadvantage to me to be set up that way. I would love to have the dump truck right now but feel like a used dump trailer would be a cheaper initial step providing my truck will handle a load of firewood on it.
I am driving a 2002 1500 Dodge Ram with the 318 motor and set up for
electric brakes as I pull a 5000# camper with it also. Do you feel that this is
enough truck for a cord of green wood on a trailer or should I just wait and go for the dump truck when I can afford it. Right now I don't really have the means to deliver the wood other than my 12 foot single axle landscape trailer or my pickup. I may be able to sell what I have for dry now to customers who will pick up their own at my place as there isn't much dry wood around at this time of year. I could also rent a dump trailer by the day temporarily if need be to get the few cords of dry I have delivered if necessary. However, by next April, a lot of folks around these parts start thinking about getting there
green wood purchased and stacked for the coming winter. At that time I will
have to make a decision on how I am going to deliver the goods. Basically, I plan to use the coming winter just buiding inventory for next spring. I don't expect to sell any green wood over this current winterseason. Another thought I had is that if I can get by with a used dump trailer initially, and 18 months from now I decide that I'm not making enough money to justify all my effort, I would still want to keep the trailer and splitter as I plan on burning wood for myself for as long as I can and will be able to utilize both pieces of
equipment as long as they last.
Mechanical ability is not my strong suit to be honest, but I can manage the basic maintenance and have a good mechanic to call upon if necessary. I know the processor is the best tool for maximum output but cannot afford to go down that road at this time.

maplemeister:greenchainsaw:

 

[avalancher]

Personally I dont feel that you should go beyond what you have for the first year. You have plenty of truck to pull a cord of wood, I pull a cord in my Dodge Dakota with a V6,my only complaint is stopping that 16 foot trailer when it is full of wood. With your electric brakes you ought to be good.
Personally, when starting out in a new venture, I dont feel the need to risk a bunch of capital until you see that it is going to work for you. You may find that the work is beyond what you see in return. Lets face it, the firewood game is hard work and not for everyone. More than once I have come home in freezing weather and sat in front of the warm stove and wondered if it was worth it. Many have come in gone in my area, and this is not a slight on anyone. The game is for some, and not for others.
I would(and did) make do with what I had and still do to this day. All my equipement is paid for, and if I gave it up tomorrow I wouldnt owe a dime on anything. I pay cash or i dont buy.
Stick with the rig that you have for this first year, sell what you can, and build your inventory. Source your wood by listening, looking, and dont be afraid to stop and ask around. I have made a lot of friends, met a lot of ornery people along the way, but all in all its a good sideline. Forking out a bunch of cash for equipement may very well "make" you do it, and take a good bit of the joy out of it.
If you enjoy cutting your own wood, you are ahead of the game already. Plenty of guys out there that sell wood for beer money, and their product tells the tale.
Good luck man! you have taken one good measure for your new venture; finding this website. its full of guys that love the work as well as a source of a vast knowledge that is not to be found anywhere else.

 

[Hugenpoet]

Good luck with your new splitter and with your firewood venture. I agree with Steve Z 100%, its a lot of hard work so follow the advice from others on this thread about gettin' a dump truck and a conveyor. What'll really slow you down-and wear you out-is a lot of loading and unloading by hand.

 

[rx7145]

Your American is a good splitter. As far as cords around two could be more with a conveyor. I have a AM-30HH and love it.

 

[OilHead]

Dont forget your new splitter wont be supplyed with hydro fluid. Probably will need 10 -15 gallons. Recommend either the John Deer or Fergy type rather than ATF.

 

[dnf0929]

How long have you been waiting for your American? I inquired about the same model last week and they told me 14-16 weeks.

 

[maplemeister]

Wow, as you noted Avalancher, this site does seem to be a great source of
help and information regarding a passion that we apparently all share. I can easily see where a conveyor would give one the ability to load directly off
the splitter and save a whole lot of time and hand work. Do you folks recommend splitting to order right off the log pile and loading out in the same operation as the most efficient method and least amount of handling to get the wood to the customer? Is there any advantage to having a good pile of split wood in reserve and on hand at all times even though it has to be picked up again and put in a truck before it can be delivered as opposed to loading directly off the splitter via conveyor?
The AM25HH I am buying has been on order a little over a week now. The dealer I ordered from told me it will most likely be Mid December before I see this machine. Will have to wait and see how well that projection holds up. If it comes in any earlier I will post on this board for those who might be interested. I was hoping to be able to get out at least two cords a day with
this machine when I have orders to fill so I was glad to hear this figure is in the doable ball park If I hold up my end of the log. I believe Oilhead mentioned the Hydraulic fluid. Thanks for bringing that up as I never thought to ask if it was included in the sale or not. Will have to check into that so I am ready when that baby comes in.


Maplemeister :greenchainsaw:

 

[rx7145]

The American will come with oil. They ops check every splitter before they send it out.

 

[maplemeister]

Thanks for that info RX7145 regarding the hydraulic fluid. Saves me having to waste gas and time driving to town and making a needless purchase.

Regards, Maplemeister

 

[drmiller100]

hmmmm......

i built a processor from scratch. cost me a lot of time and money, but two people can do 10 cords a day. a little different scale then where you are at.

the thing that REALLY costs money in firewood is touching the wood.

If you have a tractor, then you are waaaay ahead of most folks.

consider jury rigging up forks. Then you can pick up logs, and when the logs are in the air, buck them to length. Then, use the loader bucket to push the rounds over to the splitter.

split the logs with a splitter.

use the loader to push the pile out of the way, or load the trailer if you have a delivery scheduled.

i can sit in a tractor and push wood around all day, but about 42 minutes of carrying rounds or tossing split wood, and i'm sweating.

 

[maplemeister]

You boys have really got me thinking now. Forks on the tractor bucket huh? I allready have a modification on the bucket to accomodate a snow plow blade Basically just welded in two upright rectangular pieces of half inch stock at the correct spacing and drilled them both out for one inch quick disconnect pins to hold the plow in the bucket. Works like a charm. I can plow my rather long driveway out pretty quickly with the plow attached to the bucket and about every third or fourth storm I remove the plow and clean up all the tight corners with just the bucket. Does a great job and lets me pick up big piles of snow when needed and relocate if neccessary. Some years it can really pile up here. Any ideas on what I could utilize for the fork material?
I currently have to large tow hooks welded to the top outside frame of the bucket so I'm thinking I could take two short chains, mabe five
feet or so each and wrap both of them around a log about mid point and hook back on themselves at the tow hooks I allready have. Should be able to lift a log this way without any further modification but probably not as convenient as having the forks as I have to manually do the hook-up and unhook phase of the operation. Hmmm, Will have to work on this one some more but I like the concept. I especially like the idea of adapting what I have rather than buying something new at this point in the venture.

maplemeister

 

[wdchuck]

Check the Northern Tool catalog, they have clamp on forks with different weight ratings, kind of expensive in my mind, BUT, the time you save with a factory product will come back to you in greater production. I am seriously considering the clamp on forks myself, the adjustablility on width is a good thing.

Chaining a log to the bucket is fine if you are putting it on a flat surface, but if you are making a pile, or loading a trailer bed or truck bed, then it doesn't work, where as forks you can just roll it off from the safety of your tractor seat.

The best option for wood handling would be a grapple attachment for your tractor, $1650 for a 66" wide root style grapple made to fit the loader arms.

Dump truck versus dump trailer, what is the layout of homes neighborhoods that you will be delivering too? Can you manuever a dump trailer up/down a snowy driveway, alley delivery, narrow streets, how is the municipal snow cleanup in your area?

I went with a dump truck first because its easier to manuever, and I can still take my tractor along behind me to fill the truck, get home, dump the load, go eat lunch and I haven't done any hard work at that point. Hand unloading the rounds that had to be hand loaded, time/energy and can have a negative impact on your morale if its been a crappy day.

I've used a 6x12 dump trailer, and its nice, but how much do you want to potentially beat up your drivetrain, suspension, brakes on your 1/2 ton pickup when you have #7-8,000 behind you(trailer + load of wood), and then try to back up that load, your truck tires might be the weak point now, so there are plenty of things to consider.
* There are two styles of trailers, wheels under box, or wheels alongside box(lowboy), one is the same width as the tow vehicle, the other is considerably wider, will that be a hindrance to you when moving about?
**Renting a dump trailer is good idea to find out your expectations/limitations, the rental company will likely have requirements of the tow vehicle, ask about that before you leave home. They run $110/day here, that's alot of deliveries to cover the rental fee, extra gas money, and are 6x12 or 7x14.

You can start with what you own now, and perfect a system of operation, then look at what seems to be your bottleneck point(s), go from there.

 

[maplemeister]

I have a friend that I ran into yesterday while attending a Bluegrass Festival and I happened to mention to him that I was looking for a set of forks to use on my tractor for moving logs. He told me to follow him out behind his garage and lo and behold, there lay a set of forks that he had fabricated but was no longer using. I asked him if he would consider selling them but he refused my offers of money and insisted on giving them to me. I had done him a small favor a few months back on a project he was building so I guess the moral of the story is that many times good deeds can have good results. The only thing I really need to do to make these serviceable is to drill a hole in the mounting arms at the back end and bolt them right to the bottom of my bucket to make them work. The next big issue is going to be making a decision on a dump trailer or dump truck to deliver product with. Thank you
Wdchuck for your input on this area and I believe I will try renting a trailer first and see as you say, how she works out with my truck pulling a full load of green wood. If that does not work out well then the decision will obviously have to be a dump truck. Now that it looks a I will be able to use my 40 hp John Deere tractor to some extent, do you think it might be worthwhile to look into purchasing a decent winch that would work off the back of my tractor. I am thinking that I may be able to get some landowners to let me clear there standing dead and storm damaged trees of their woodlots for a little wood in exchange. The lots around here often have old
twitch roads going through them where you could stay on the road itself and pull quite a distance from the woods without leaving the road. Once in the road it would be relatively easy to pull the log to a landing area for processing. Has anyone had any experience with this type of setup?

Maplemeister

 

[tawilson]

Check out this thread:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=26571&highlight=farm+tractor+woodlot