Nitro Methane fuels

[Harley]

Tzed250,

I wouldn't know about Injected cars, as they are relativly new. Say within the last three years. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't injected nitro cars only allowed to run around thirty percent nitro?

 

[sedanman]

My2cents, The "glow plug" on a 2 cycle rc engine is NOT the same as a glow plug on a true diesel. The rc version is basically an artificial hot spot on the combustion chamber, a glowing bit of wire to ensure combution, without this the engine will not run. A true diesel uses nothing but the heat of compression to sustain combution, glow plugs may be used to warm the combution chamber initially but are shut off relatively quickly.

 

[My2cents]

Sedanman, I think you should read carefully what you wrote. The Glow plug in a Deisel engine preforms the same task exactly as a Glow plug in a R.C. engine does.

 

[oakman]

my2cents,
sedanman is correct about the glow plugs. some diesels use them to help start. rc engines use a 1.5 volt battery to light the plug, which has a tiny platinum wire coil, to start the engine. then the battery is removed and the combustion process keeps the plug glowing. to prove it, the engine will stop if the glow plug coil breaks, or is damaged, a common problem in rc. a diesel, however will continue to run until the fuel or air is shut off. also, not all diesels use glow plugs, so how do they start?

 

[daveb]

glow plugs

Most of the diesels that use glow plugs are the ones designed with pre-combustion chambers. They will start very hard without them. They cycle on and off until the combustion chamber heats up enough for compression ignition. Direct injection diesels do not need them, although some use a type of "glow plug" that heats the intake air to facillitate easier starting
Note: do not use ether with glow plugs, they will look like chernobyl.

 

[cutterextrodina]

if you are going to run it in a saw
1. turn the idle down to alittle off the bottom
2. fill your tank about 1/4 full methonal mix
3. rich 16:1 oil mixture
4. use 87 octane or 92 don't run 104
5. cut like the wind
6. if you do more than 3/4 tank just add oil

 

[John in MA]

Hey DaveB, is that Doug's girl's sister?

 

[bwalker]

Nitro is usless as a fuel additive in a two cycle motor. Its about as ignitable as peanut butter and as TZ alluded to the engine must be engineered to run properly on it.
As far asthe glow plug thing goes. RC plugs and diesel plugs are not the same. The diesel only uses the glow plug for cold starts, while the rc motor uses them in place of a sparkplug.

 

[Miranda]

We saw a need to test the theory out to see if there is more bang for the buck or at least a faster cutting time. We ran a good stock chainsaw mix, ( Husky oil 50:1 and 110 octain) against Stihlman036's Stage 2 racing fuel mix (and yes it has a bit of nitro! ) . Here is the setup:

2100 saw stock with small pipe and good chain. Log was a 12" round dryed poplar. One cut down, Time in wood.

My gas mix 3.7 sec.

Stihlman036's stage 2 fuel......................... 3.15 sec.

We also noticed a few thing while we ran these tests.
1 Nitro works when done right
2 the header temperature dropped (no smoke rolling off after the cut) with the stage 2 fuel
3 I hear stihlman is working on a stage 3 fuel that should be even faster.

And before you ask he even won't tell me the mix he is using and I'm his competition partner.

Miranda

 

[bwalker]

I doubt you saw any gains from the nitro itself. Mike rupley tried nitro and didnt gain a thing according to one of his older posts. If you really want to make a saw sing dope a good quality race fuel with a copious amount of MTBE, Isoprene, and maybe even a little propylene oxide.

 

[Tzed250]

hot fuel

True everything that Ben said plus add nitrobenzine. This stuff really wakes up a two-stroke. too bad you can't get it anymore cuz it causes cancer by just looking at it wrong!

 

[ccicora]

Well I will try and shed some light on what Miranda said.
The Stock fuel he was running was a good fuel mix for the saw since he increased the compression. So I know the increase in octaine was a benefit to the saw.
After he would make a single cut from the block the header was smoking hot. So we had a time through the block, drained his saw, let it cool off and gave it some stage 2 race fuel. The fuel is racing fuel with 4 blend mix of additives I use. One of these is nitro. The others are there it enhance the nitro's use. This fuel mixture has put me in the top ten places at several meets that I compete in. So bwalkers comment is right in that the nitro by its self is not good enough to give you much gains but when blended correctly it gives a superoir fuel that brings a saw to life. I have had this mix run in an 084 that was cutting in the mid 4's and had the time dropped into the high 3's.
The racing blends work in these saws for many reasons. And as we have been informed in previous forms this is only one piece of the puzzle. You need to have a well built saw and a competent operator that knows how to run that saw the fastest. The nitro blend you use may have several different types of base mixes to achive the desired performance.
If you still don't think your race saw can not benifit from a bit of boost then feel free to meet up with me sometime so you can try for your self.
And just a side note I think I need to know what I am mixing since a finished gal. of race fuel can cost me from $12-$18 per gal. depending on the stage of fuel.

See ya at the races
Chris

 

[bwalker]

stihlman036, If Mirandas saw was not detonating badly a change in fuel would not cool the saw down UNLESS it made the mixture go rich or was not burning completley. Keep in mind to make HP you have to have heat. In most cases a engine that runs cooler is making less power. BTW I would lose the nitro and add some MTBE. The stuff is wesome from a power standpoint and does not do any thing funny as far as tuning goes.

 

[ccicora]

Mr. Walker,
Since you are obviously the resident pro racer maybe you should put you fuel were your mouth is and come out and show the boys and girls in NY how fast that fuel is. I know the Bath Timbersports show still has openings in the hotsaw class and would gladly take your money. All you half to do is make three cuts in a 10x10 in under 3.0 sec. from a dead start. I know of at least three saws that will be there running super funny gas combo's and you can see if your mix is faster than theirs. And trust me if you can beat those guys you will have my respect and some respect from alot others who could only dream of being that fast.
Oh, by the way the show is May 17, in Bath, NY and a link for the form. See ya there

http://www.eteamz.com/nylumberjacks/handouts/

 

[bwalker]

036, nothing you are doing with fuel hasnt been done at least a 1000 times. Nobody I know uses the stuff in a two cycle and I know some very knowledgable people in the roadracing, MX and snowmobile racing fields.
BTW You might want to try smokey Yunichs book. He talks about nitro and as a side not he also advocated two strokes be allowed to compete in F-1.

 

[ccicora]

Mr. Walker,
Anybody can recite out of a book what you fail to see is that these are chainsaw motors not an roadracing, MX or snowmobile motors. The design and working of the chainsaw motors are very different. All I am saying is take what ever fuel mix you think will win and prove it. Otherwise sit down be quiet and you might learn something if you ego allows it.
I have read several performance books and one parellel was in all of them is, find out what works for you and use it to your advantage.
And if you want to find me I'll be at the races.

 

[bwalker]

The design and working of the chainsaw motors are very different

Last time I checked a chainsaw motor is based on circa 1965 roadrace technology. A two stroke is a two stroke.
How are you mixing nitro with gasoline or are you using alky.
BTW I love a good challenge and If I where not in Canada working I would drive out your way and we could have a fuel shootout.

 

[dbabcock]

Ben,
You naughty boy...as usual. And why wouldn't you be?

 

[My2cents]

Why does any informative tech thread turn out to be a pissing match between Bwalker. This thread was progressing nicely into fuel blends with nitro, and different thoughts on the subject. Let people who know whats going on express there ideas without picking the fly $hit out of the subject matter. Intelligent people won't bother to respond if they think they going to have to go on the defensive about there opinions. Sit back read and absorb.

 

[bwalker]

Why does any informative tech thread turn out to be a pissing match between Bwalker

It seems some people feel threatened when you question them.