Non-ethanol gas a necessity?

[allstihl]

E10 goes in my truck cause it was made to run on it . all my other stuff gets E0 91 with stabil .

 

[esshup]

I guess it all boils down to what you feel comfortable with. For me, the extra $0.40 per gallon of ethanol free gas is cheap. After replacing the carb on the log splitter, replacing the fuel lines twice then finally having to rebuild the carbs on the lawn tractor and string trimmer, and now having to rebuild the carb on the gas powered generator, all due to deposits from ethanol and the corrosive qualities of it, I'm never going to use that crap again if I can help it.

Even if it was $1.00 more per gallon, how many gallons per year do you run through your saws and other equipment? What would the repairs cost??

Plus I have to drive close to 30 miles one way to get it. Still cheap in my book. I run 2 of my saws on 100LL, that is even more expensive than ethanol free gas, but to me it's still cheap.

 

[livemusic]

What is 100LL fuel?

 

[sam-tip]

What is 100LL fuel?

Airplane fuel 100 octane fuel low lead. Very dry low water fuel. Don't want fuel lines freezing while flying. Plus it has much longer shelf life.

About $4.70 per gallon here. Varies by airport.

 

[chipper1]

Once you add pre mix thats $4+, not cheap in my book.
Many of the 2-strokes(as well as 4-strokes) that were manufactured in China(some in the US) had inferior fuel lines. This is because they knew nothing about the corrosive properties of ethanol. If your equipment is newer or older than those you will have LESS problems. This is because they have learned at our cost. This most likely applies to you sunfish as you had problems in that time frame.

This applies to your issues in the past as well esshup, the fuel line problem has been resolved as well as the carb issues on those older ones.
It has done much to strike fear into people. I'm not afraid, but sure don't like the cool-aid their giving us.
I run 87 in everything unless it is high compression.

I guess it all boils down to what you feel comfortable with. For me, the extra $0.40 per gallon of ethanol free gas is cheap. After replacing the carb on the log splitter, replacing the fuel lines twice then finally having to rebuild the carbs on the lawn tractor and string trimmer, and now having to rebuild the carb on the gas powered generator, all due to deposits from ethanol and the corrosive qualities of it, I'm never going to use that crap again if I can help it.

Even if it was $1.00 more per gallon, how many gallons per year do you run through your saws and other equipment? What would the repairs cost??

Plus I have to drive close to 30 miles one way to get it. Still cheap in my book. I run 2 of my saws on 100LL, that is even more expensive than ethanol free gas, but to me it's still cheap.

 

[lone wolf]

Airplane fuel 100 octane fuel low lead. Very dry low water fuel. Don't want fuel lines freezing while flying. Plus it has much longer shelf life.

About $4.70 per gallon here. Varies by airport.

How long have you seen it sit and still run good?

 

[sam-tip]

How long have you seen it sit and still run good?

Many years. Heard of planes with same fuel for 15 years and still ok. It is a more refined fuel so it has less junk in it to go bad. Never has ethanol in avgas 100ll.

That was the mechanics plane in storage.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I heard you guys up there get a check something to do with oil, is that true?
Just thought about it, but where the heck would you get the ethanol up there lol.

It essentially is a payment to all the citizens from the oil companies taking oil from us.

 

[chipper1]

It essentially is a payment to all the citizens from the oil companies taking oil from us.

That's basically what I heard. That should offset fuel cost some then.
Big oil big money.

 

[Cody]

Budweiser does

Must be crappy rice these past few years. I get a headache sooner than I get a buzz from it, can't drink bud heavy anymore. That's ok, I've become somewhat fond of PBR.

Here the difference between E10 and E0 (of the same octane rating) is 30¢-40¢ depending.
It ain't the oil company rippin' ya' off, it's your State. It has to do with mandates, taxes, tax credits, and subsidies... ethanol is actually more expensive than gasoline before all that government crap (that you pay for with your tax dollars).
*

Didn't it use to be only a 10 cent difference here in Iowa? Bigger price difference to sway more people into buying ethanol I suppose, damn farmers.

 

[Whitespider]

Didn't it use to be only a 10 cent difference here in Iowa? Bigger price difference to sway more people into buying ethanol I suppose, damn farmers.

Yes, 10 cents or less... but here's what happened, and it's more about government than the farmers (although, it could be argued that one is the other these days).

Up until about a year ago or so the pipelines were sending Iowa two grades of gasoline, 87 octane and 91 octane. Both grades were blended with ethanol to make an 89 octane and a 93 octane. We had 4 readily available grades at the pump, 87 E-free, 89 E10, 91 E-free, and 93 E10. Due to EPA mandates and pressure, as well as changes in tax credits and other market manipulations, the pipelines replaced the 87 octane gas with a much cheaper 84 octane. So now the cheaper 84 is blended with (government subsidized) ethanol to make 87 E10 (the 89 E10 is mostly gone), and the 84 is also blended with the much, much more expensive 91 to make 87 E-free. What this effectively did was increase the price of "regular" grade E-free, and lower the price of "regular" grade E-10 (at the same time reducing both the octane rating and fuel quality).

So now we have these 4 grades...
87 E10 - which is cheaper than the old 89 E10 because it uses the cheaper 84 octane gasoline rather than the 87.
87 E-free - which is more expensive than the old 87 E-free because 84 must be blended with non-proportionally more expensive 91 premium.
91 E-free - which is the same as it's always been.
93 E10 - which again, is the same as it's always been.

It's market manipulation by government... artificially lowering the price of "regular" grade E10, and artificially raising the price of "regular" grade E-free. It simply created a larger price "spread" between the two "regular" grades. It's mostly smoke 'n' mirrors because the fuel quality of the "regular" grade E10 has been reduced, and the fuel quality of the "regular" grade E-free has been increased.

I still buy the 87 E-free for my vehicles.
When you compare the fuel mileage lost by using E10, it's damn close to a wash... but I don't have to stop for gas as often.
Obviously I'm not the only one still buying it; near every pump (around here anyway) has both the 87 E10 and the 87 E-free available... if it weren't selling, they wouldn't have it.
*

 

[cuinrearview]

if it weren't selling, they wouldn't have it.
*

Depending on which grade you are talking about, I disagree with this statement.

 

[Whitespider]

Depending on which grade you are talking about, I disagree with this statement.

Why?? Why would nearly every gas station around here keep 87 octane E-free if it wasn't selling??
*

 

[Cody]

Yes, 10 cents or less... but here's what happened, and it's more about government than the farmers (although, it could be argued that one is the other these days).

Up until about a year ago or so the pipelines were sending Iowa two grades of gasoline, 87 octane and 91 octane. Both grades were blended with ethanol to make an 89 octane and a 93 octane. We had 4 readily available grades at the pump, 87 E-free, 89 E10, 91 E-free, and 93 E10. Due to EPA mandates and pressure, as well as changes in tax credits and other market manipulations, the pipelines replaced the 87 octane gas with a much cheaper 84 octane. So now the cheaper 84 is blended with (government subsidized) ethanol to make 87 E10 (the 89 E10 is mostly gone), and the 84 is also blended with the much, much more expensive 91 to make 87 E-free. What this effectively did was increase the price of "regular" grade E-free, and lower the price of "regular" grade E-10 (at the same time reducing both the octane rating and fuel quality).

So now we have these 4 grades...
87 E10 - which is cheaper than the old 89 E10 because it uses the cheaper 84 octane gasoline rather than the 87.
87 E-free - which is more expensive than the old 87 E-free because 84 must be blended with non-proportionally more expensive 91 premium.
91 E-free - which is the same as it's always been.
93 E10 - which again, is the same as it's always been.

It's market manipulation by government... artificially lowering the price of "regular" grade E10, and artificially raising the price of "regular" grade E-free. It simply created a larger price "spread" between the two "regular" grades. It's mostly smoke 'n' mirrors because the fuel quality of the "regular" grade E10 has been reduced, and the fuel quality of the "regular" grade E-free has been increased.

I still buy the 87 E-free for my vehicles.
When you compare the fuel mileage lost by using E10, it's damn close to a wash... but I don't have to stop for gas as often.
Obviously I'm not the only one still buying it; near every pump (around here anyway) has both the 87 E10 and the 87 E-free available... if it weren't selling, they wouldn't have it.
*

I usually only fill my truck up near the town I live by and you're correct, it used to be 87 Regular, and 89 was the E-10 fuel, now they're both 87, nice to know that it's a higher quality 87 as well. That's what I use for my saws now too, cut mainly in cold weather so the lower octane should have no negative effects. I used to get 93 premium with no ethanol added for my saws but that's a 40 mile trip, my girlfriend's 04 Cavalier got the best mileage with that fuel, enough to make it worth the extra cost. Thanks for that info!

 

[Whitespider]

...nice to know that it's a higher quality 87 as well.

Keep in mind it's only higher quality because lower quality 84 octane is blended with higher quality 91 octane. The "quality" ain't proportional with octane rating... one point octane increase means more than one point quality increase. Even though the 87 octane E-free ends up being higher quality, it ain't all that much... still, given the crap they sell us now-a-days, every little bit helps.
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[Sagetown]

We have a franchise here with many service stations that are now selling Regular through Premium gasoline that does Not contain any ethanol .

 

[midwest_170]

Here the difference between E10 and E0 (of the same octane rating) is 30¢-40¢ depending.
It ain't the oil company rippin' ya' off, it's your State. It has to do with mandates, taxes, tax credits, and subsidies... ethanol is actually more expensive than gasoline before all that government crap (that you pay for with your tax dollars).

I personally will not use an ethanol blend in any small engine, I've just seen way too many issues with ethanol and small engines. I use 87 octane E0 in the 4-cycles, and 91 octane E0 in the 2-cycles.
As far as storage... I wouldn't trust any pump gas (i.e., oxygenated or reformulated gasoline) after about 3 months, and if I used an ethanol blend my confidence level would drop to about 1 month.
I don't believe in any of the snake-oil fuel treatments. However, I do use Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer with 91 octane E0 in my emergency generator (the only 4-cycle I use 91 octane... for storage reasons). I check the fuel and test run it every 30-days or so. I've had mixed results... I've had the fuel go sour in as little as 60 days, the current tank full is near 12 months old and is still good. Regardless, I'll drain it and put fresh in around the New Year... 12 months with stabilizer and a plumb full tank (minimal air) is the maximum I'm comfortable with. I have no friggin' clue if the Sta-Bil helps... in fact, fuel going sour in 60-days indicates it don't help... but I figure, since the generator is emergency backup, it can't hurt neither.
*

You need to do some fact checks on your ethonal bashing.

1. There is a mandate but we are currently producing more than the current mandate because it's cheaper for oil companies to oxygenated with ethanol. So that means there is a free market for ethanol.

2. Big oil companies are the ones receiving subsidies, hard to believe that wealthy companies like exon receive welfare, but it's true.

3. Yes ethanol can be a little harsh on older engines, but new engines ate designed to run on ethanol gasoline.

4. Depending on your state the gas you are buying may have ethanol, but the gas company does not have to list it on the pump.

5. Ethonal supports local farmers who spend money in your communities, which generates taxes. A high percentage of gas comes from overseas and they are using the money to buy weapons to kill American soliders.

I run 91 in my 2 stroke engines but I run E10 in all my vehicles and 4 stroke engines.

 

[Grey]

E10 Pump gas, 89+ octane will work fine in any new unmodified chainsaw (< 5-10 y.o.) as long as you keep it fresh, like less than one month. If you are using it slowly, just buy a gallon at a time and discard the leftovers after a couple of weeks. Startron also helps.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Either 87 E-0 or 100LL (when I get by an FBO to get some) in all of my ope. Generally I'll run 87 in the winter for a bit easier starting and a less cold-blooded nature and 100LL in the heat to help combat detonation, especially in my ported saws. I don't know of any E-0 beyond 87 octane rating locally outside of AV gas or else I'd buy it. My '06 Sequoia and '93 Honda ST1100 get E-0 87 because they weren't designed to run on E-anything and the Toy gets bad enough mileage w/o a premature penalty in a less energy-dense fuel. I've run the bike on E-10 a few times but didn't like the noticeably higher temp gauge reading... Luckily I don't drive the Toy a lot and the bike gets about 40mpg so it's not a huge concern.

@midwest_170, I'd like to see how well it did w/o any taxpayer incentivization (welfare) and see how it competed head-on w/straight fuel. Having seen the results of equipment that's not used daily running E10, I won't touch it.

 

[midwest_170]

There has not been any subsidies to ethonal industry since 2011. The original welfare just helped a growing industry build infrastructure and created jobs. So now ethanol has to complete with the oil industry which still receives welfare. Just a quick Google search brought this up. There's a big misconception about ethanol, it's too bad because it's actually a viable source of renewable energy. Big oil controls so many politicians and news outlets that they just keep pumping this bs down our throats. The amount of money spent on lobbying by big oil is outrageous. Don't want to start a war, just asking people to actually research for themselves before taking the media's word for it.


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/04/06/the-motley-fool-criticizes-ethanol-subsidies-th/203183