non ethonol gas and storing

[SierraWoodsman]

E 10, is all that's available here unless you want to pay big bucks for canned fuel. Can't see paying those prices. Now I'm just Dumping the fuel and idle dry if it's going to sit more than a month or two. Unfortunately I learned this lesson the hard way by leaving the fuel in my 372. never again.

 

[zogger]

E 10, is all that's available here unless you want to pay big bucks for canned fuel. Can't see paying those prices. Now I'm just Dumping the fuel and idle dry if it's going to sit more than a month or two. Unfortunately I learned this lesson the hard way by leaving the fuel in my 372. never again.

So what happened to it? According to the gents above, it can't possibly phase separate**, so what happened to your saw with e10 based two stroke mix?

**e10 is constantly different pump to pump, it is "alleged" e10 and just e10, with zero guarantees, and although the stuff from the pump might be labeled e10, what goes into your can could quite easily have some sloshed water in it, or a little extra alky. Ya, the pumps don't pull from the very bottom, meh, seen it happen, mud right into the tank. Helped my friend do injectors on a VW that barely made it home from a local high volume place about 1.x something not much miles away.

I still say, why chance it if you don't have to. Because it is usable for some guys in some places doesn't mean it is usable for everyone at all places. Even suggesting by inference it might be is rather...I wouldn't do it. I personally had a low mileage slowped that had bad piston seizure within a month of a fresh can mixed, alleged e10, first down was water and alky and that sucker seized hard under 100 foot. Not the first day, but a few weeks later it did. Don't tell me it was stored incorrectly it was in the tank! I don't want to hear it "can't" happen, because there is _real world_ versus theoretical lab conditions. The rest of it in the can got used up quicker, but the stuff hanging out in the slowped tank obviously phase separated.

So I say, you can, and millions have suffered, phase separation from stuff LABELLED as e10. What is was really, who knows. We as consumers have to go by the label, and anyone yours station can be quite different from that guy over there's station, as opposed to over yonder's station.

Unless you are at least semi professionally testing every batch of fuel that goes into your mix can, you do not know exactly what percentage gasoline/alcohol and/or water might be in it. Stupid label on the pump is again, theoretical.

I say, stay away from anything that claims to have alcohol and gasoline mixed together unless that is your slap onliest option.

 

[bcaarms]

I have never had a saw not start when using non ethanol fuel.

 

[SierraWoodsman]

I ended up having to get the carb completely replace. the shop tried several rebuild kits first, but these did not work. we finally ended up replacing the carb that fixed the problem.

 

[Mad Professor]

Just to clarify: E10 will not phase separate with the moisture that it can absorb. It can if it gets water dumped into it at the station or in the can.

I call ********. I run E10 in my old tractor with a water separator/sediment bowl and I still get phase separation in the bowl. And that is not just water but a good bit of ethanol mixed in the lower phase.

And this would happen as soon as you ran the corn crap if it came from the pump, I see it happen from a nearly full tank after the tractor sits overwinter and it gets run again.

The fermented corn syrup fuel absorbs moisture until you get phase separation. 4-strokes just run like **** and muck up the carbs, two-strokes and you can get damage to internals. Thats how I end up with a lot of the free saws I get.

 

[nmurph]

Call whatever you want, but the fact that you see water in your settling bowl doesn't prove that E fuel will phase separate from atmospheric exposure only. You are looking at the cumulative effect of gallons of fuel. I won't argue the political aspects of the ethanol industry...


This is a pull-quote from a scholarly article-

Another way water can enter gasoline is through absorption
from the air. Water, in the form of water vapor, can dissolve in
gasoline. The more humid the air, the faster the water vapor
will dissolve in the gasoline. Due to chemical equilibrium,
however, assuming a constant temperature, phase separation will
never occur if the only source of water is from the air. Only
enough water to saturate the fuel can enter the system, and no
more. Water vapor, however, dissolves in gasoline very slowly,
even at very high humidity. For example, at a constant
temperature of 100 degrees F and relative humidity of 100%, it
would take well over 200 days to saturate one gallon of gasoline
in an open gasoline can (assuming the only source of water is
water vapor from the air). Water absorption from the air is far
slower at lower temperatures and humidities. (At a temperature
of 70 degrees and relative humidity of 70%, it would take over
two years to saturate one gallon of conventional gasoline in the
same gasoline can.) Again, oxygenated gasolines can hold more
water than conventional gasoline, and would therefore take much
longer to saturate with water.

Conclusion
Water phase separation in any gasoline is most likely to
occur when liquid water comes in contact with the fuel. (Water
in the form of moisture in the air will generally not cause phase
separation.) Water which is in solution with gasoline is not a
problem in any engine, but as a separate phase it can prevent an
engine from running or even cause damage. Since oxygenated
gasolines, however, can hold more water than conventional
gasoline, phase separation is less likely to occur with
oxygenates present.

 

[Section VIII]

I used the same mixture for the saw, blower, and trimmer. Only the blower had the carb problem "due to the clogged filter". I still call B.S. Why? Because after I got it back home, I fired it up and it STILL had the same problem using fresh non-ethanol-in-the-can mix. That's just their excuse.

And as far as possibly getting crap E10...you can also get crap non-ethanol. They can put all the labels on the pumps as they want but it doesn't guarantee anything.