Observations between ethanol and real gas

[Talltom]

Ethanol in fuel does not cause pre-ignition (knocking). It increases the fuel's octane rating and reduces knocking. It is also an oxygenator, and E10 has been used in metropolitan areas for decades to reduce smog - it burns cleaner that straight gasoline. It is less dense than gasoline and has fewer BTUs per gallon, but this reduction is slight for E10. It has a higher vapor pressure and can affect the tuning of your saw. Modern autos have computerized engine management systems that can adjust on the fly, a chain saw carb can not. It's biggest problem is that it attracts water, so you need to keep our supply fresh. It's also reported to have detrimental effects on certain plastic and rubber components.

I don't know if the amount of ethanol in gasoline varies greatly over time or by load, but it's about the same price as gasoline, so there's no economic incentive to be precise. On the other hand, they are injecting some very expensive chemicals at the rack when they load the tanker truck, so I'm sure they can be very precise in doing that.

The Government did not force anyone to use MTBE in fuel. That was the industry's decision as a cheap way to boost octane rating when the Government banned lead. Now that MTBE has been banned, the industry is using ethanol to do that & you will be having a difficult time finding gasoline without ethanol. Re-tune your saws and keep your fuel fresh.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Subsidy runs out Jan 1

I've heard that the government subsidy runs out on ethanol on January 1. I'm not sure if that means they may stop using ethanol in gasoline in some places or that fuel prices will be higher. I'm hoping for the former.

 

[Modifiedmark]

I've heard that the government subsidy runs out on ethanol on January 1. I'm not sure if that means they may stop using ethanol in gasoline in some places or that fuel prices will be higher. I'm hoping for the former.

If the former happens, maybe the price of a box of corn flakes will go down.

 

[Log Hogger]

If the government subsidy runs out January 1, that means the corporate ag lobby will order congress to convene a special session to renew the subsidy, LOL!

Anyone know of any reputable independent tests of the enzymatic gas treatments for EtOH gas? I figure any quality two-stroke oil mix includes a fuel stabilizer, but the EtOH treatments are fairly new.

 

[jimdad07]

No problems here with E10, I just use a good, airtight can and only mix two gallons at a time which will last me about a month if that.

 

[dingeryote]

I've heard that the government subsidy runs out on ethanol on January 1. I'm not sure if that means they may stop using ethanol in gasoline in some places or that fuel prices will be higher. I'm hoping for the former.

Senate vote marks start of end for ethanol subsidies | Reuters

Congress critters will make a haul on thier insider trading, and then make a haul on the Lobby cash that will start flowing again.
We get hosed, as usual.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[bower4311]

Nope. Gas station is in the liberal bastion of Pittsford where Prius and tiny foreign cars reign supreme. I live east of Rochester.

Please tell me you know where you can find Ethanol free gas anywhere around Rochester!

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Please tell me you know where you can find Ethanol free gas anywhere around Rochester!

About any place that sells VP fuels, which means a speed shop, airport, maybe a marina or a drag strip/race track. It won't be $3.00 a gallon however.

 

[JPP]

Please tell me you know where you can find Ethanol free gas anywhere around Rochester!

Ethanol-free gas stations in NY

I have gone to gas station in Pittsford. On this list, there are two in Henrietta and one in Avon, one in Canandaigua. Yes it appears marinas have regular gas. I feel bad I exposed my saws to ethanol all last year without doing this research.

Getting the government to back off a subsidy or imposed program/policy (ethanol is BOTH), is like making the Titatnic go airborne to avoid icebergs. Ain't gonna happen.....

 

[ZeroJunk]

Can somebody show me some documenation that shows how ethanol increases octane.

I know it is an oxygenator to decrease carbon monoxide.

But, I don't think it increases octane like tetraethyl lead .

 

[zogger]

Can somebody show me some documenation that shows how ethanol increases octane.

I know it is an oxygenator to decrease carbon monoxide.

But, I don't think it increases octane like tetraethyl lead .

Here ya go

Octane rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Short answer, it is around 110 as it sits brand new distilled. They have to denature it, make it undrinkable, by adding some other crap to it, at home with a BATFE permit to make your own for fuel, seems as I recall just adding other pump gas to it is all it takes to qualify.

Once it is in the gasoline blend, which has other crap mixed in, it acts as an octane booster, but it also acts as an octane decreaser, because in the real world, devices that burn liquid fuels are vented to allow in air, so whatever pump is used can work. Moisture in the air will absorb into the alky. So, the longer it sits vented, the worse it gets, until the point where phase separation will occur, and that's when it kills saws, that and just the general corrosive effect of alky in devices not really designed to handle that.

Although lead acts as a lubricant along with being an octane booster, adding it to fuel resulted in everyone breathing in lead in the air to harmful amounts, especially when concentrated in urban areas due to the "heat island" localized effect. It is an actual for-real problem and was getting worse, so most nations agreed to restrict it.

Anyway, the link is good, plenty of info and references.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Thanks Zogger, good link.

 

[ToMang07]

Ethanol just sucks. :msp_thumbdn:

Draws moisture more than gas, separates if left for long periods of time, lowers economy/power. I hate it.

When i had my Ram I got 15-16 on regular fuel. When they went to ethanol, 10-12. Runs worse in all my 2 stroke engines, especially my boat. Plus, ethanol gas ends up creating more greenhouse gasses than regular gas.

It's the "prius" of the fuel world. :angry2:

Hate it, hate it, hate it.

 

[RTK]

The Government did not force anyone to use MTBE in fuel. That was the industry's decision as a cheap way to boost octane rating when the Government banned lead.

Why California mandated poison in your tank
In name of environment, known carcinogen added to gas


SACRAMENTO -- The California Air Resources Board ignored warnings from the Environmental Protection Agency that gasoline additive MTBE might be carcinogenic before requiring it in every gas tank in the state.


Since the passage of the state mandate last summer, MTBE has been used across California as an additive in gasoline to oxygenate the fuel for "cleaner burning."

"At the time that the regulation was passed, I think that we were aware that it might be carcinogenic and that it could have some other health effects," recalled Andrew Wortman of the California Air Resources Board from 1983 until January of 1994. He later added, however, that the board never thought that levels of MTBE in the environment would ever reach a point that would adversely affect people's health. Wortman also stated that he thought that the board knew even before MTBE usage became mandatory in the state that the chemical wasn't healthy for people.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Why California mandated poison in your tank
In name of environment, known carcinogen added to gas


SACRAMENTO -- The California Air Resources Board ignored warnings from the Environmental Protection Agency that gasoline additive MTBE might be carcinogenic before requiring it in every gas tank in the state.


Since the passage of the state mandate last summer, MTBE has been used across California as an additive in gasoline to oxygenate the fuel for "cleaner burning."

"At the time that the regulation was passed, I think that we were aware that it might be carcinogenic and that it could have some other health effects," recalled Andrew Wortman of the California Air Resources Board from 1983 until January of 1994. He later added, however, that the board never thought that levels of MTBE in the environment would ever reach a point that would adversely affect people's health. Wortman also stated that he thought that the board knew even before MTBE usage became mandatory in the state that the chemical wasn't healthy for people.

It sounds like some of the government agencies should get out of the thinking business!

 

[promac850]

It sounds like some of the government agencies should get out of the thinking business!

Yep... the days of the EPA actually being beneficial in environmental and human protection were over long ago... they got massive ego/power inflation and started going after everything. Now they starting to think it's bad to emit CO2... (cars, trucks, etc.) well, if they can't emit that, what the hell are they supposed to emit?

What about us humans and other breathing critters? Are we not supposed to emit CO2 as well? What are you going to do about the millions in the US that emit CO2 for their entire lives?

It's all a cluster#### nowadays.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

The FAA won't let us that have auto fuel conversions on our small planes use gasahol in any form. As Straight fuel got harder to find, I did less and less flying. My Blazer went from almost 20 MPG on straight gasoline down to about 14 on the alky stuff. Almost 25% mileage drop while saving 10% gasoline doesn't actually decrease gasoline used, it increases the total required to get from A to B. The 'experts' keep claiming the mileage drop is only 2-3 % on the alky mix. I say BS to that. The truth is we would need to import less oil if the alky went away. I really do hate the whole program the EPA and oil companies have shoved down our throats.
Rick

 

[sps3172]

Yep... the days of the EPA actually being beneficial in environmental and human protection were over long ago... they got massive ego/power inflation and started going after everything. Now they starting to think it's bad to emit CO2... (cars, trucks, etc.) well, if they can't emit that, what the hell are they supposed to emit?

What about us humans and other breathing critters? Are we not supposed to emit CO2 as well? What are you going to do about the millions in the US that emit CO2 for their entire lives?

It's all a cluster#### nowadays.

I, for one, think it would be AWESOME if the EPA had a way to reduce the CO2 emissions produced by some people.

 

[zogger]

The FAA won't let us that have auto fuel conversions on our small planes use gasahol in any form. As Straight fuel got harder to find, I did less and less flying. My Blazer went from almost 20 MPG on straight gasoline down to about 14 on the alky stuff. Almost 25% mileage drop while saving 10% gasoline doesn't actually decrease gasoline used, it increases the total required to get from A to B. The 'experts' keep claiming the mileage drop is only 2-3 % on the alky mix. I say BS to that. The truth is we would need to import less oil if the alky went away. I really do hate the whole program the EPA and oil companies have shoved down our throats.
Rick

Technically, demand for fuel has dropped in the US over the last several years, and we export a lot of fuel.

US exports record amount of refined fuels - Chicago Tribune

Ya, never think of "our" fuel or oil, it just doesn't work that way unless your name is mr fatcat and you own some big energy company. All there is, is a global market. the oil producers are globalists, internationalists, they are in the business of making as much money as they can for themselves, not providing cheaper fuels to anyone.

That quaint notion that we have "our oil" then some other oil doesn't work in the real world, it is all THEIR oil and they sell it where they can get the best profit. There is no national loyalty with those boys. "Drill, baby, drill, for OUR oil" is complete BS and isn't the way the market works. It won't matter a whit about prices or anything, because global demand will keep those prices up, and if it drops too far, they will shut off production someplace until it goes back up, usually with some war.

Then there's the monsanto death corn lobby..they don't care either, have to have some of their crap corn in everything or they ain't happy. Fuel, food, it doesn't matter, stick some of their *&^%^ corn in it.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I, for one, think it would be AWESOME if the EPA had a way to reduce the CO2 emissions produced by some people.

Do you mean CO2........or methane?