Oil settling issue

[motobike]

Synthetic 2 stroke oil

There have been occasions where certain synthetic oils have seettled in our Motocross bikes.

My friend in Northern PA, runs a motorycle repair shop; and has seen with his own eyes some oils separating.
He is in Florida right now, so I can't contact him on which oil it was. I do remember it was a premium 2 stroke synthetic oil.

I don't do it this way, I refresh my premix all the time, but some guys don't.

If I recall the bikes had set all winter, I don't know if the garages were heated or unheated. The owners fired the bikes up in the Spring, (after checking that there was fuel in the tanks from last fall). Seized the engines.

This was premix that had worked in the fall.

I don't have the brand of oil in my memory, because I wasn't using that brand; but it was a premium oil.
This happened to 2 of his customers. He said he was certain the oil had separated. But I don't know what gasoline they were using either.
The Liberal politcians seem hell bent on us using alcohol based fuel.

Motobike

 

[rube2112]

I never start any piece of equipment and immediately apply full throttle, regardless of the weather or temperature conditions. Only a fool does that.

Thats very true, however, in the case of a chainsaw, you wouldn't have to pull the throttle lever very far to be running more rpm's than the average car or truck is even capable of. Robb

 

[Jacob J.]

If the bikes sat two months or longer with gas in the tanks, the gas was goners.

 

[Jacob J.]

Thats very true, however, in the case of a chainsaw, you wouldn't have to pull the throttle lever very far to be running more rpm's than the average car or truck is even capable of. Robb

You're comparing apples to watermelons.

 

[dt6266]

There have been occasions where certain synthetic oils have seettled in our Motocross bikes.





Motobike

ive heard of that too. i run klotz R50 which is 100% synthetic (thanks to blsnellig) in my saws and other 2 stroke equipment including 2 stroke snowblower and they claim that it wont separate in cold conditions

 

[Rockfarmer]

ok.....that makes sense.....what about the poor lubrication properties of oil when its zero degrees? We all know that most wear occurs in cars during start up, Seems to me that it may be even worse for a chainsaw in cold temps. (high rpm's and zero degree oil) That can't be a good mixture. Robb

Engine manufacturers dont want you to know that 70 of engine wear is due to starting the motor without an oil lubricated head. Why dont they have an electric oil pump that supplys oil to the head before ignition? Why, because motors would last longer and they wouldnt sell as many new ones. They make them to last until they warranty is up.

As far as the 2 stroke goes the oil mixture sits on all the sufaces all the time to protect it.

 

[rube2112]

You're comparing apples to watermelons.

I agree with you....I know they don't work in the same way. I know how two cycles work. Please don't think that I am making light of your experience with saws. I'm just exploring the possibilities of what extreme temps can do to a two cycle engine. someone has already mentioned cold seizure. I just got a 1200 dollar saw. what is your recommendation for starting in very cold weather? Robb

 

[Rockfarmer]

There have been occasions where certain synthetic oils have seettled in our Motocross bikes.

My friend in Northern PA, runs a motorycle repair shop; and has seen with his own eyes some oils separating.
He is in Florida right now, so I can't contact him on which oil it was. I do remember it was a premium 2 stroke synthetic oil.

I don't do it this way, I refresh my premix all the time, but some guys don't.

If I recall the bikes had set all winter, I don't know if the garages were heated or unheated. The owners fired the bikes up in the Spring, (after checking that there was fuel in the tanks from last fall). Seized the engines.

This was premix that had worked in the fall.

I don't have the brand of oil in my memory, because I wasn't using that brand; but it was a premium oil.
This happened to 2 of his customers. He said he was certain the oil had separated. But I don't know what gasoline they were using either.
The Liberal politcians seem hell bent on us using alcohol based fuel.

Motobike

Hey motobike, thanks for the note

I would blame that on what they call "phase separation". It hit the marine industry very hard when guys were fueling with the old fuel and the new. The old fuel had mtbe which was an additive forced on us by the clean air act that had lubricating properties. The new fuel of course has methanol additive for clean air. The 2 fuels when mixed create what they call "phase separation" which allows the alcohol to absorb the water and rob all the lubricating and oxidizing properties of the gas resulting in 2 or 3 layers of bad semi burning fuel that has blown up many motors. You can run either fuel but cannot mix both at all.

 

[blackoak]

I agree with you....I know they don't work in the same way. I know how two cycles work. Please don't think that I am making light of your experience with saws. I'm just exploring the possibilities of what extreme temps can do to a two cycle engine. someone has already mentioned cold seizure. I just got a 1200 dollar saw. what is your recommendation for starting in very cold weather? Robb

I would start it like I would anytime. Maybe let it warm up a few minutes before WOT.

 

[7sleeper]

...what is your recommendation for starting in very cold weather? Robb

That is a very good question that I would also like to have answered.

I start my saw and let it idle while putting on my ppe(gloves, ear & eye protection) in every weather. After that I start sawing.

Thanks for your input

7sleeper

 

[Jacob J.]

I would start it like I would anytime. Maybe let it warm up a few minutes before WOT.

+1- Don't use the throttle lock, just put it on run and let it start and idle. I let my saws idle for a minute or so in the dead of winter. Make sure your warm air shutter is open too if the saw is equipped with one.

 

[mattinky]

There have been occasions where certain synthetic oils have seettled in our Motocross bikes.

My friend in Northern PA, runs a motorycle repair shop; and has seen with his own eyes some oils separating.
He is in Florida right now, so I can't contact him on which oil it was. I do remember it was a premium 2 stroke synthetic oil.

I don't do it this way, I refresh my premix all the time, but some guys don't.

If I recall the bikes had set all winter, I don't know if the garages were heated or unheated. The owners fired the bikes up in the Spring, (after checking that there was fuel in the tanks from last fall). Seized the engines.

This was premix that had worked in the fall.

I don't have the brand of oil in my memory, because I wasn't using that brand; but it was a premium oil.
This happened to 2 of his customers. He said he was certain the oil had separated. But I don't know what gasoline they were using either.
The Liberal politcians seem hell bent on us using alcohol based fuel.

Motobike

Back in the early 80s a guy brought in a Suzuki RM125, it would start and idle but would die if you gave it any throttle at all. I told him it sounded like he had water in his carb which I've seen a thousand times... only it was'nt water, it was a glob of BelRay MC-1 oil that had seperated from the gas, when you hit the throttle it sucked the glob of oil up against the main jet and died.

In the thousands of dirt bikes I've worked on over the years this is the one and only time I've seen oil seperate and I'm not sure what caused it.

 

[Urbicide]

I've had some dino 50:1 in a 1/2 gal bottle of Jack Daniels for all of this winter. It has been exposed to near 0° weather. Since it is in a clear bottle, I can see that no change has taken place. Looks just like it did when I put it in. YMMV. Don't worry, I didn't waste any of the JD.

Good thing. 04Ultra would have been pissed.

 

[Rockfarmer]

I agree with you....I know they don't work in the same way. I know how two cycles work. Please don't think that I am making light of your experience with saws. I'm just exploring the possibilities of what extreme temps can do to a two cycle engine. someone has already mentioned cold seizure. I just got a 1200 dollar saw. what is your recommendation for starting in very cold weather? Robb

If its wicked cold or wet out bring it inside for a few minutes before starting. It wont hurt it to start it cold just dont over rev it right off. Use good oil. Use it, dont let it sit to long (more than 3 months) without starting and running. It will be good to you

 

[PatrickIreland]

I'd think the vibration would mix the mix pretty well in the first few seconds after startup, while you're looking for your gloves and the like.
I have a 20 year old Mariner 4hp outboard that will always start and run even if it needs a sniff of Ether first - some of the fuel in that has been left sitting in the tank for 4 years while I was using another engine.

 

[rube2112]

If its wicked cold or wet out bring it inside for a few minutes before starting. It wont hurt it to start it cold just dont over rev it right off. Use good oil. Use it, dont let it sit to long (more than 3 months) without starting and running. It will be good to you

I think from now on I'll keep my saws inside during cold weather. It can't hurt, thats for sure. Robb

 

[rube2112]

I'd think the vibration would mix the mix pretty well in the first few seconds after startup, while you're looking for your gloves and the like.
I have a 20 year old Mariner 4hp outboard that will always start and run even if it needs a sniff of Ether first - some of the fuel in that has been left sitting in the tank for 4 years while I was using another engine.

This is proving to be just a controversial as the other oil threads. There are people saying that it can't happen, and people that say it HAS happened. Once again, it appears that maybe some oils are more prone to separate than others. I'd still like to know how difficult it is to remix the oil/gas when it is really cold Robb

 

[Urbicide]

I think from now on I'll keep my saws inside during cold weather. It can't hurt, thats for sure. Robb

That + keeping your jug of bar oil warm will make for better bar & chain lubrication right off the bat.

 

[Mad Professor]

I've often wondered if the oil will settle out of the gas while in the chainsaw. In light of the problem that stihlboy is having right now, it makes me think that perhaps the oil settled out of the gas. And if it did, is it hard to get remixed in this cold weather? I may pour a quart jar of mixed gas and put it in the freezer just to find out. If it does settle, and if the chainsaw is kept in a place that gets cold, I tend to think that it may be very difficult to remix after it has set for several days. If it does settle out and if it is difficult to remix in cold temps, then perhaps draining these big saws after every use in cold weather might not be a bad idea. Robb

If it has been sitting more than a week what is so hard about shaking the saw/gas can??? I do it as a matter of habit.

 

[rube2112]

If it has been sitting more than a week what is so hard about shaking the saw/gas can??? I do it as a matter of habit.

no there's nothing hard about it...and I have always done it too. There are people saying that it can't seperate and my point was that if that is true then why do saw instructions tell you to shake it before every refueling Robb