Old Hydraulic Gear Pump

[kevin j]

I am all for building with what ya got at hand (farm background required that), and I don't mean to sound negative on the project, but at the end of all this building of chain case and mounting the drive, you will only have a fixed 15 gpm pump and 15 gpm cylinder speed. You have 20+ hp available, so I would for sure spend the money on a two stage pump and have a lot higher flow for use 75% of the time and the cycle.

Commercial are good rugged pumps, been around for ever through various owners and now to Parker.

 

[NJ_Toolnut]

I am all for building with what ya got at hand (farm background required that), and I don't mean to sound negative on the project, but at the end of all this building of chain case and mounting the drive, you will only have a fixed 15 gpm pump and 15 gpm cylinder speed. You have 20+ hp available, so I would for sure spend the money on a two stage pump and have a lot higher flow for use 75% of the time and the cycle.

Commercial are good rugged pumps, been around for ever through various owners and now to Parker.

Thanks, Kevin!

I now believe I completely understand the constraints imposed by the pump I have. Money is tight since I'm financing college for my daughter. This pump and cylinder fell into my lap, so I'm hoping to be able to make use of them. All my splitting has been with wedges and a sledge or axe (when straight grained), so any hydraulic splitter that works will be a huge step up. Consider the cycle times associated with splitting cross-grained rounds using wedges! In addition, I only burn about 5 cord max per year in my workshop--I currently heat my house with oil, although I have a woodstove installed for alternative heat.

In addition to the pump, the cylinder I have is also sort of a kludge, so I may design so as to be able to use a better cylinder in the future. It is 4.5" in external diameter and 15 inches long, with a 2" shaft. Since my workshop woodstove uses 19" max length, this cylinder should work but I suspect that for tough to split stuff I will need to insert a block between the wood and the splitter end plate to increase wedge travel. Again, just about any hydraulic splitter that works beats swinging a sledge. I just finished splitting two cords of burly, cross grained, gnarly, crotchety sugar maple, so I have recent experience to remind me how much splitting with wedges sucks! This cylinder has either 1/2" or 3/4" female NPT hose connections, so I have some concerns about restriction. I will also need to consider restriction when I choose a valve, and do some more research on system optimization, given what I currently have. For instance, I'm wondering whether it might be wise to set up pressure relief to less than the 2500 psi rated pressure in order to limit wear.

Engineering is all about compromises. So far, I see nothing to indicate this pump and cylinder cannot be made to work, but I fully agree that compared to a system designed from scratch to maximize efficiency, it will leave much to be desired. You can't drink champagne on a beer budget!

Stan

 

[Mac88]

I'd say "go for it", Toolnut. What have you got to lose except for the time involved. To me, the learning experience is worth the effort, and that will be something you can use when you build your next one. You did good on scraping up all the information on the pump.

 

[NJ_Toolnut]

I'd say "go for it", Toolnut. What have you got to lose except for the time involved. To me, the learning experience is worth the effort, and that will be something you can use when you build your next one. You did good on scraping up all the information on the pump.

Thanks, Mac, I plan to go for it as my budget allows.

I've always wanted a splitter, and that sledge keeps getting heavier every year. Getting this pump and cylinder gave me the excuse I needed to start learning about designing one. Now that it looks like I've considered enough about the pump to know it will work, I'll need to start considering the other parts, both hydraulic and mechanical, as well as the ergonomics. I live to learn, and love new challenges. It's going to be awhile before I make any sparks or chips, I'm going to need to do a lot more learning and scrounging first. I really want the whole splitter designed in my head and on paper before I start building it.

I'm grateful for all of the useful feedback and answers I've received on this forum.

Stan

 

[whitepine2]

Tol_nut

I have been making stuff 55 yrs putting things together with what I had on hand but don't be blinded by getting something for nothing. If you do put it on your PTO it will work however you will be running a tractor gas,oil,ware and tear no good.If this is the way you want to go save up for a PTO pump made for that use and can be used for anything hydraulic for your tractor. Check them out more GPM and plenty of PSI to run a splitter or whatever else.
That being said I would go for a small gas engion an a 16 GPM two stage pump (I've got an 8HP briggs from a gen. that crapped out & 16 GPM 2 stage pump) got new for $150 and 4 1/2 piston not super fast but splits everything I ask it to. The pay off is only gonna use about 1 gal. fuel for a days work and unit will be compacked
and pay for itself in the long run. Beleive me a lot less work and pain I know been there done that just an old fool.

Whitepine2

 

[NJ_Toolnut]

Tol_nut

I have been making stuff 55 yrs putting things together with what I had on hand but don't be blinded by getting something for nothing. If you do put it on your PTO it will work however you will be running a tractor gas,oil,ware and tear no good.If this is the way you want to go save up for a PTO pump made for that use and can be used for anything hydraulic for your tractor. Check them out more GPM and plenty of PSI to run a splitter or whatever else.
That being said I would go for a small gas engion an a 16 GPM two stage pump (I've got an 8HP briggs from a gen. that crapped out & 16 GPM 2 stage pump) got new for $150 and 4 1/2 piston not super fast but splits everything I ask it to. The pay off is only gonna use about 1 gal. fuel for a days work and unit will be compacked
and pay for itself in the long run. Beleive me a lot less work and pain I know been there done that just an old fool.

Whitepine2

Thanks for your feedback whitepine!

I think I have both eyes open. I did check out commercial PTO pumps and I agree they have sufficient GPM and PSI, but they cost at least $300, may not be US made at that price, and I believe I can make this pump work very reliably for less than that. I agree that running a splitter from my tractor PTO will result in additional tractor wear and tear and cost a lot more for diesel fuel than running a small engine would cost for gasoline. However, the tractor burns less than 1.5 gallons per hour when the engine is running at 2450 RPM to maintain 540 PTO RPM, and I can split a lot of wood in an hour. In addition, since this splitter may work fine at less than full PTO RPM, 1.5 gallons per hour represents the maximum fuel cost.

I bought my tractor used 20 years ago and it owes me nothing. I bought it to use it, I've used it hard and I intend to continue using it hard. I've never abused it and have carefully maintained it, so it has done all I've ever required of it. Just last fall I used it to move two triaxle loads of crushed rock out of my driveway for a workshop addition project. I also used it for over ten years to keep 3 acres of grass mowed (at 1.5 gallons per hour) and plow my driveway. I've also used it for logging and firewood gathering. The only other hydraulic implement I ever imagined using on this tractor was a backhoe attachment, but now that I have a neighbor and good friend with a big old IH backhoe loader I can use whenever I want, so I'm no longer considering obtaining a backhoe attachment. In addition, if I can design this chain drive to reflect what I currently have in mind, I could possibly use it separately from the splitter just like a commercial PTO pump, if I decide to mount the reservoir on the back of the tractor.

Let's see, I own two chainsaws, a hedge trimmer, a string trimmer, a pressure washer, a garden tractor, a hand mower, a military surplus diesel generator...my point is that there is a trade-off between the cost and effort required to maintain all these small engines and the cost of tractor wear and tear, maintenance and fuel.

Stan

 

[whitepine2]

Yes I know what tractors can do bought my first one in 1957 56 years ago a 1953 Farmall SM yes I was 14 and paid $1500 for it,worth more than twice that much today one of the best buys ever. Now I have 4 tractors,sawmill,pickup trucks,dump trucks,several saw's,splitter, wood processor(home made) that has done hundreds of cords of wood and dozens of small gas and diesel powered things. I will try to post a pic of the processor hope it come out all right.

 

[NJ_Toolnut]

Yes I know what tractors can do bought my first one in 1957 56 years ago a 1953 Farmall SM yes I was 14 and paid $1500 for it,worth more than twice that much today one of the best buys ever. Now I have 4 tractors,sawmill,pickup trucks,dump trucks,several saw's,splitter, wood processor(home made) that has done hundreds of cords of wood and dozens of small gas and diesel powered things. I will try to post a pic of the processor hope it come out all right.

Whitepine2,

Thanks for your post, and especially for posting the images of your wood processor and splitter.

The hydraulics on the wood processor look really complicated! I'm impressed that you could build it from scratch! I probably burn less than 5 cords per year so my plans don't include obtaining one, but I can see why having one would be useful for someone that runs a firewood business or fuels multiple outside wood burners. I would need to learn a lot more about hydraulics before I could design something that complex.

Stan

 

[whitepine2]

O yes you can it just looks impressive each valve controls one thing just fallow the lines,yes there are two flow dividers they just control the flow of oil so things don't go too fast and or to certain pistons,these are things found in hyd. books,nothing earthshaking a lot like electricity follow the wire,follow the hose. That big splitter cost out of pocket about $800 most of the stuff I had on hand or had given. It is powered by an Isuzu turbo 80 HP from a pickup (Isuzu Pup) very good engine easy on fuel.
The other splitter was cobbled up from stuff around the farm,like I said the Briggs was from the dump gen broke so cut the tapered shaft and with a die grinder cut a key way.Did spend for a 16 gal.pump,lovejoy and bracket.If you notice it has a hyd. wench which one can use tongs and is used to lift the table,very nice for an old fella like me gotta keep away from the grunt work and make life eraser.
Yes I did sell wood for about 10 years after I retired and I am on my second outside wood burner,the first was a smoke dragon but I now have a P&M 250 gasser.I don't think I burn much more than 5 cord with this unit I like it a lot after burning 15-18 with the first.

Whitepine2