Opinions on fuel
- Thread starter Boomer 87
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Boomer 87
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've been reading all these posts, I came to decision for myself. Alot of my saws were born when leaded fuel was the norm. So those saws are going to continue to get 100ll. All the saws that were born on unleaded, are going to get the cans of VP fuel, as they are my wood cutters. That way the ones that sit alot will be protected, and the ones I use alot won't won't cook my brain.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I was having trouble with my ported GZ4000 clone (Jenn-Feng McCulloch - turned out to be a worn air valve shaft/housing), and I had the carb apart several times. It had been sitting with E10 in it for a few months. I checked out the lines as well, all of which are original and 11 years old - the last several have been exclusively E10. I opened and swapped on another carb that has been sitting since the last time I ran it on E10. All of the fuel system parts were spotless and in perfect condition. Neither carb has ever had a kit.
While I was frustrated and trying to figure out what was happening with it I got out my real Zenoah made GZ4000 that had been mothballed for a year. I had drained and purged all the fuel and filled the oil system with 30W rather than the canola I usually use. I filled it and went to start it, only to have fuel spilling everywhere. Turns out it was the grommet at the top of the tank where the fuel line comes out - it had hardened and shrunk and was no longer sealing. I had to swap on a spare from a scrap Jenn-Feng McCulloch tank (it was a better design than the Zenoah piece). Did the previous contact with ethanol cause this? I dunno, but I bet it would have been fine if I had just let it sit with fuel in it. I'm going to dunk the part in fuel and let it sit to see if it softens up.
While I was frustrated and trying to figure out what was happening with it I got out my real Zenoah made GZ4000 that had been mothballed for a year. I had drained and purged all the fuel and filled the oil system with 30W rather than the canola I usually use. I filled it and went to start it, only to have fuel spilling everywhere. Turns out it was the grommet at the top of the tank where the fuel line comes out - it had hardened and shrunk and was no longer sealing. I had to swap on a spare from a scrap Jenn-Feng McCulloch tank (it was a better design than the Zenoah piece). Did the previous contact with ethanol cause this? I dunno, but I bet it would have been fine if I had just let it sit with fuel in it. I'm going to dunk the part in fuel and let it sit to see if it softens up.
have you tried your local airport? av gas is ethanol free because if it wasn't planes would be falling out of the sky. although it is leaded it has very little, just enough to control "ping" at high altitudes. its called 100 ll, 100 octane low lead. it costs more than automotive fuel but its worth it.
Plenty of posts in this thread about why this might not be a good alternative - for the operator not the saw. Ron
well, there are those of us who used leaded fuel for years and are still going strong. i agree that lead needs to be minimised in ou environment but this thread is about e10, not lead. av gas has a minimal amount of lead. perhaps you could enlighten us by providing anecdotal evidence of problems caused by using av gas...
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well there have already been anecdotal evidence provided about lead measurements from streetcops in calafornia. And they are out in the oben, while your muffler is around 1.5 to 2 feet from your face with the exhaust gases being reflected off the log directly into your face...
Personally the e10 spook is laughabile considering the amount of two strokes running out there without a Problem
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Personally the e10 spook is laughabile considering the amount of two strokes running out there without a Problem
7
uh, how are policemen in california exposed to av gas and what does that have to do with chainsaws? if you don't think that ethanol is damaging gasoline engines, you're not paying attention. if you work on chainsaws you will find that probably 90% of damage that you repair is due to ethanol and the contamination often present. they aren't putting stoli in your gas. sometimes its fairly pure often it looks like muddy water. that being said, if you like e10, go right ahead and use it as i said earlier e10 has made good money for me. it's also made billions for greedy corporate farms that didn't need the help.
i've see the same thing with grommeted tanks. sometimes the grommet just falls apart and gets sucked into the tank or blown out depending on thermal differentials. it could be that ethanol had nothing to do with it and it could be that cigarettes don't really cause cancer. however we didn't see this type of problem pre e10. i'm not going to do a spectral anaysis on a wad of gum that used to be a fuel line, at the bottom of a fuel tank. i just going to use common sense. maybe it's time for someone to provide empirical data that ethanol doesn't damage anything. i'm glad you haven't encountered any problems but i see them frequently.
yes, i've read that you use ethanol free gas. and i know the hazards associated with environmental lead, but if cops in california are suffering from lead exposure, it isn't likely to be from tree guys running saws. a better experiment would be to test the rare operators running av gas in their saws to see if they are within acceptable limits. i've worked with a tree company in northern califa and still stay in contact, since they are like family. they burn nothing but e10 from the pump and may not have had any problems (this is an area where denial is common,) however. their saws are run six to seven days every week. they can go thru 10 gallons of mix in a week and the only small saws they use are 200t's which they don't usually last too long anyway. i buy ethanol free fuel from a nearby station. i test it. it usually has a small amount of ethanol in it. the distributor uses the same trucks for all types of fuel. if i couldn't get that, i'd make the longer drive to my nearest small airfield and buy 100LL. meanwhile, i gotta get down to the shop. i have a couple of stihls in with damaged fuel systems. life is good. by the way, regarding toxins, i'd like to see someone do a test on ethanol precipitated out of e10. its often a dirty brown color. guys are breathing the combustion products. peace.
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
I am to tired today to explain to know-it-alls at what temperature ethanol combusts to water and CO2, further I won't explain the simple mechanisms in the human body which use enzymes to turn ethanol to H2O & CO2.
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Boomer 87
Addicted to ArboristSite
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
No such thing
I deleted my second post as I thought you might be offended. Glad to see you weren't.
Your first post made it appear that you hadn't read the previous posts where folks hashed out the potential health hazard of lead exposure. Jon made it clear that it is not something to take lightly. I have no dogs in a debate over the effects of avgas on the saw. I feel blessed that nonE no lead fuel is readily available to me.
Ron
no offense. my dogs don't fight. the goal is to get to truth. i see too many people here who are belief based, i don't know what the best fuel is. i don't know what the best saw is. regarding ethanol i have observed and repaired plenty of damage to fuel systems over the last ten years and i have another ten years before that when i worked on saws and didn't see anything other than saws that got fouled when somebody left non-ethanol fuel in the tank for mote than a year. also, i observed many motor cycles with carbs damaged by letting non-ethanol fuel evaporate entirely from float bowls, leaving a white residue. this is different. lead is another thing. however, if i couldn't get ethanol free fuel at a gas station, i would be burning av gas.
well, truth is you're not going to be able to test any monkey on this little planet without finding lead in the blood or liver. it's part of our environment both naturally and by design. is av gas hazardous? i don't know. if you're sure, cite some data. i haven't even read the msds which probably wouldn't be much help anyway. there's a village near me where there used to be a lead-acid battery factory. the company closed it and evaporated leaving a mess. almost everyone there is dim-witted but that could be from watching too much tv. every pilot i've known has been pretty bright. it's a parts per million thing.
Boomer 87
Addicted to ArboristSite
I read another post from a member that stated the 100ll which is what is in question is basically half the lead of the old 100 green gas. I would like to see that in ppm or percentage. How much it actually equates to. The original question was of the guys running it,were there any issues with the equipment over time due to the lead, something we can't see. Maybe before this thread dies we can answer those questions.
astnmacgto
Carnac The Magnificent
I feel like someone out there in the great beyond has the mental capacity and objective intelligence to answer your original question, but until they speak up, the world may never know...........
bmwpowere36m3
ArboristSite Operative
Leaded fuel won't hurt anything other than catalytic convertors.... environment and your health can be debated.
