OWB's and lotsa wood.

[showrguy]

all right,
all right,
i gotta chime in here..
nothin against indoor woodstoves or their owners..
my house is right about 5600 sq. ft.
my attached garage is 30x62..
i burn around 20 cords of wood a year, about half or so of that is good wood (oak, hickory, locust)..the rest is not so good of wood..
it's impossible to say exactly what i will burn in a season because of too many variables, temp, wind, kind of wood ect..
i do not keep my garage @ 70 deg, but it rarely drops below 60, if i'm planning on being out there alot the radiant floor zone gets turned on..
if i'd only heat the house as i did years ago i burnt right about 10 cords of good wood..

so what i'm getting at is i absolutely could not afford to heat what i do now with gas, oil, or anything else.....period !!!
all the things i like about it are the same as anyone else with an OWB..

how much wood would i burn if i had 3 or 4 wood stoves going 24/7 ?? probably about the same ??

 

[artbaldoni]

I have done all 3.

Woodstove inside is a PITA; dirt, smoke, hauling wood in. Loved the heat and low oil bill though.

IWB was the greatest thing since sliced bread except...wood still inside (a least it was in the basement), occasional puff of smoke filtered up the steps, had to make sure I was burning perfect wood. Chimney cleaning was a necessity. Had to cut more wood.

OWB, now that sliced bread had butter and jam on it. No wood inside. No smoke inside. Still stoke twice a day. Yes, it uses more wood but not a lot more. I will go through 8-10 cords burning all year long - heat and DHW. No chimney cleaning.

The extra wood is ok for me. I used to work outside all year long. Cutting wood was a chore. Now I have a desk job and wood cutting is stress relief!

To each his own. That's why the make chocolate, vanilla and strawberry!

 

[FLHX Storm]

The same thing I always do when the power goes out... open the door and make sure the generator started on its' own like it's supposed to do. We don't have power run into the property just to run the OWB. The horses need their water, the servers still need to be on-line and I still need to weld.

Complicated??? You heat water and circulate it with a pump. If that's complicated you better just leave your slippers on in the mornin' and stay in the house!

I have had an inside woodstove in the past. After 30 years as a career firefighter, there are 2 things I will never have: an inside wood burning stove and propane ANYWHERE on my property.

Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.

You see, I prefer not to have something that if one part fails the whole system won't operate. (other than my truck or motorcyce) Or even a cascade system failure caused by a defective relay. It's not that it is too complicated for me to understand or operate, far from it, but I prefer to have something that won't fail due to some seemingly insignificant part failing or perhaps a cold solder joint or short in the wiring.

For some, I do understand their need to run either an OWB or IWB for their application, a large house, large shop, etc. Not a thing wrong with it as long as you properly maintain it, but for my specific application (a 3 bedroom poorly insulated house) a wood stove works just fine. It keeps the general living area a nice comfortable 73 to 75 degrees, and the bedrooms 71 to 73 degrees. N that's burning a cubic foot to foot and a half a day.

BTW, just because I don't have an OWB or IWB, doesn't mean I can't afford it. The same applies to having a generator. I just have no need for either.

With that I will leave you with something to consider in your judgment of wood stoves. Just like chainsaws or motor vehicles, a wood stove is only as safe as it's operator.

 

[H-Ranch]

Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.

An OWB doesn't use all of the things you think of as complex because the system is open to the atmosphere - no chance of it going boom. Basically the only thing that will prevent the system from working is the pump and many of us keep a spare on hand with quick change flanges to boot. And if something catastrophic does fail on it, my house doesn't burn down.

As most agree, all of our woodburning devices have their place.

 

[Blazin]

opcorn:

 

[chaikwa]

As most agree, all of our woodburning devices have their place.

Yes, I agree with that. I guess I've just seen too much 'Joe Homeowner' scenario's to be comfortable with something like that inside my house. The last house fire I went to was caused by an improper wood stove chimney installation which was installed by a licensed installer... between the walls of a balloon frame house using single wall pipe. The homeowners thought they had done everything right. They had also just spent a considerable sum of money to renovate the interior of the house. We saved it but just barely. The fire got in between the floors, went up the walls and into the attic. No smoke alarms sounded because there was no smoke IN the house. They finally heard what they thought was a freight train and surmised they had a chimney fire but couldn't figure out why when they just had the chimney cleaned a month prior. Thankfully, they called us before they played hide and seek with the fire, which was rolling pretty good in the attic. By the time we got there the floor on the second floor was starting to smoke. I still have pics of the investigation of that one. No one in my line of work believed we saved a balloon frame house with that much fire involvement until they see the pics!

 

[cantoo]

I've changed my mine since this mornings post. I went to buy a Fawcett wood furnace to heat my new shop, I did buy the Fawcett but then decided I also needed to buy the Pacfic Western OWB that he had sitting there. So count me in on the OWB is the way to go, I have no idea why anyone would want to have wood inside their house>>>>>>>. :msp_tongue: As for price, it was used so it's going to take less than 1 year for it to pay for itself and 1 more year to pay for the exchangers, lines and pump I need. I listed what I will be heating in an earlier post, this will do it by next year when I get it all installed. It only took an hour to install the Fawcett in my shop, it'll be for sale next fall.
View attachment 274750View attachment 274751View attachment 274752

 

[taskswap]

Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.

I dunno, I have a T&P valve on mine, and it didn't seem that complicated to me... All of my safeties are a single $15 part.

Oh, wait... :notrolls2:

I get it. To each their own!

 

[FLHX Storm]

I dunno, I have a T&P valve on mine, and it didn't seem that complicated to me... All of my safeties are a single $15 part.

Oh, wait... :notrolls2:

I get it. To each their own!

Really? And that's why they charge 5 to $20k for an OWB?

Here's a basic plan to build one. Cost is about $2000 it says to build. But it also tells you further down additional things you will need to hook it up. And NO, it's NOT COMPLICATED.
http://www.deb-design.com/Boiler_IV_Samples.pdf

If your calling me a troll .......

 

[Turkeyslayer]

For the money of one of those OWBs though, I would superinsulate (as close as I could)the house first and be done with it. Drop demand to hardly anything at all.

Insulation always trumps in the ROI arena over burning more fuel, in whatever heating device you have.

There is NOTHING made more efficient, furnace, stove, owb, any make or model or price (just talking about space heating now) than not needing it in the first place.

Until someone has actually seen and experienced a true bonafide superinsulated structure..meh, you wont believe it just reading about it.

Our house would cost a mint to make efficient, probably be $30 000 plus just to replace the windows. I have more wood and time then money so I am fine with burning a #### whack of wood.

 

[taskswap]

If your calling me a troll .......

Ouch. I thought we were just having a fun discussion here.

 

[woodguy105]

Totally passive freestanding Jotul F600CB here with great fire viewing.


You guys can keep your complicated heating systems.



Let's compare how things hold up 20 years from now.

Naaa, just wait for the next extended power outage....

 

[FLHX Storm]

Ouch. I thought we were just having a fun discussion here.

What, you mean we're not having fun?

Seriously though, check out the pdf in the link. You'll see there are a lot more parts to putting one of these things together than just a circulator pump. The larger the OWB, the more intricate it becomes with zones and so on.

Yes, I was using the wrong word. "Complicated" should have been "Intricate"

 

[AIM]

Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.

I think your not fully understanding the BASIC OWB. (forced air application)

You have an OPEN tank of water being heated by a fire. A little doohicky called an aquastat senses water temp and kicks on a blower that feeds the fire when needed to maintain set water temp.
A pump runs water through the lines nonstop. Much of the time your water is just getting dizzy from going round and round.
Attached to these water lines in your ductwork is another doohicky called a heat exchanger (looks just like the radiator in your truck/ just smaller) When your house needs heat your t-stat simply kicks on your existing furnace fan.
No pressure, no zones, no relays (well the aquastat might be a relay)
Yes there are many more parts than a simple stand alone stove but it's really quite simple.

Radiant floor heat OWB's have a few more parts.

 

[cantoo]

FLHX, remind me again, how many sq ft are you heating? Not sure what the temp is there but tonight it's -13 C or 9 F here. With wind chill it feels like -23 C or -9 F. It's going to be -17 C or 1.5F tomorrow. Gonna be some smoke around here for the next few days. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the wind gusting to 49 kms or 30 mph.

 

[wndwlkr]

opcorn:

 

[AIM]

FLHX, remind me again, how many sq ft are you heating? Not sure what the temp is there but tonight it's -13 C or 9 F here. With wind chill it feels like -23 C or -9 F. It's going to be -17 C or 1.5F tomorrow. Gonna be some smoke around here for the next few days. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the wind gusting to 49 kms or 30 mph.

Her post in another thread.

The temperature made it to 50 yesterday, but only 42 today. The winds have shifted from coming out of the east to now coming out of the west and northwest at 10mph with gusts up to 22mph so far. Tomorrow is predicted to have a high of 18 degrees but back into the low 40's by Friday.

 

[J1m]

Her post in another thread.

The temperature made it to 50 yesterday, but only 42 today. The winds have shifted from coming out of the east to now coming out of the west and northwest at 10mph with gusts up to 22mph so far. Tomorrow is predicted to have a high of 18 degrees but back into the low 40's by Friday.

Oh good lord...that's BARELY shoulder season where I live. Did I say barely?

 

[johnnylabguy]

Good Thread! Just because I battle back and forth between both methods for my next woodburning appliance. I currently use a whole house heating indoor furnace in the basement. I love that the house is evenly heated and the mess is in the basement PLUS i have a lower level garage that I just back the fully wood-loaded gator into right next to the woodburner room. I love stoking my fire indoors and don't have to split or cut that small because of the size of the fire box....

BUT...when I add a building to the property there's most likely going to be an OWB in the picture. Heating two buildings with one appliance is just too handy. Not to mention the part about the fire being outside where it can't destroy everything you've worked for in your life from the one mistake of accidently leaving the ashpan door open(that you swear you'd never leave) until your child is bawling upstairs(thank God for smoke detectors knowing the flue pipe was red hot) or some other instance where your house could burn. I grew up in a house that had a chimney fire that burned some structure before the Fire Department stepped in, and thought it could NEVER happen to me. But it almost has. Thats a pretty good reason for an OWB.

That being said...If you don't have a lot of square footage to heat and a sizeable woodlot to cut from...an OWB is not sensible.

I just hope my wife reads this so I can get a Pole Barn and an Outdoor Wood Burner!

To each his own... and yes its 7 degrees outside and my house is 73 while my fuel oil furnace and my heat pump are gathering cobwebs and playing poker. I think i just might go to the trading post to buy a chainsaw and tractor with my savings now so I can fill up my barn...

 

[FLHX Storm]

For a better understanding on how these OWB systems work, what they actually entail, here is a file from Central Boiler with several different setups. So yes, I do have an understanding even if I do live in a more temperate climate that some of y'all. However, that does not mean there are no OWB's in this area. I have seen several and there is one down the road a piece, but like I said, they would not suit my purpose.

http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBSystemDiagrams.pdf