Pioneer 450

[geochurchi]

Hi All, the manual states set points at .022 at 30 degrees BTDC, how do I determine that?
Thanks

 

[geochurchi]

Hi All, I have good spark with plug outside of the cylinder, when I reinstall the plug with a spoonful of gas into the cylinder I get nothing, not sure if installing a Heli coil for the plug would cause a problem , it did pop before I installed the Heli coil and blew the loose plug out of the cylinder.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Hi All, I have good spark with plug outside of the cylinder, when I reinstall the plug with a spoonful of gas into the cylinder I get nothing, not sure if installing a Heli coil for the plug would cause a problem , it did pop before I installed the Heli coil and blew the loose plug out of the cylinder.

It should be fine. You can use a degree wheel it’s not too hard. Typically you can just eyeball on the points cam where full open should be then set it

 

[geochurchi]

Hi All, just took the primer assembly apart from a 450 nothing in there was usable, anyone if these parts would be available? would it possible to somehow how cobble together a primer bulb setup from current small engine primer .

 

[geochurchi]

Hi All, not sure what I have here, I pulled the cylinder head off of this 450, and never seen an arrangement like this , can someone explain the operation, also I will need to make a new head gasket as well as exhaust gasket, what material should I use ,
See pics

 

[geochurchi]

Hi All, anyone know anything about the valves or lack there of on this 450?
Thanks

 

[Fordsoll]

This is a Two stroke engine it has no valves like a four stroke engine. To explain it in a basic way, When the piston is on the downward stroke it creates pressure in the crankcase and forces up the air and fuel thru the holes in the cylinder (ports) directly into the cylinder and when the piston goes back up it compresses the air and fuel and the spark plug ignites it, Also when the piston is going up it creates a vacuum in the crankcase and sucks in fuel and air from the carburetor which as you can see is on the crankcase. The crankcase should be perfectly sealed, no air leaks.

Your piston and jug look like it would run just clean the carbon from the piston and make sure the rings are free. If the saw were mine I would just use regular gasket paper for the cylinder gasket and some high heat silicone for the exhaust gasket. as for why it wasn't running, your coil looks like it is cracked up. You need a new one or maybe somebody here has fixed something like that and will chime in soon. Try pulling the engine over when its dark you might see the coil arcing. You had spark on the outside (no compression) but when the plug is in and you are pulling the engine over the coil is to weak to fire under the compression of the engine.

 

[geochurchi]

Thanks for that explanation, I did order a piece of head gasket material. $8.00 , thought I would also use it exhaust port, is there a way to bypass the primer operation as diaphragm etc. is all toast, I have sucked gas up to it inlet port of the carb, could I pour a bit of gas in the carb and see if it fires up, I did put a bit of gas into the cylinder, reinstalled the plug and got a pop when I turned it over, I will check the coil in the dark , any thoughts on a compression test?

 

[Fordsoll]

You can pour gas in the carb to test it in my opinion that is better than the spark plug hole but both are fine. If the coil works than you should wrap it in high voltage tape just so it doesn't misfire by arcing at high rpm. As for the compression I would say at least 90 psi because an old saw with a high displacement (89cc) will have a low compression compared to modern saws to begin with. I have had outboard motors run with 70 psi so I wouldn't worry to much.

 

[geochurchi]

Thanks for the reply, have to reassemble it first, head gasket etc. I will address the coil

 

[cbfarmall]

You don't need head gasket material for that cylinder base gasket. No compression there to resist. Original was a thin aluminum gasket, probably .020 thick. I would not be afraid to thin use thin a paper gasket, .032. A thick gasket will only hurt compression. Far as the coil, I'm thinking what works for the 750s will work here. Use an OMC aftermarket coil. I've used many of these on Pioneers and IELs. The cylinder design was a late IEL design, used on the RAs and J series. PM Canadien copied it when IEL designers went to work for them.

Coil: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2607460339...3VGR0obRKC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[cbfarmall]

Here's the exhaust gasket. Take note of the part number. People on this site may have it available.

Red high temp rtv works as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3625677004...3VGR0obRKC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[geochurchi]

Pardon my ignorance but what is IEL? also trying to think of away to set up a primer bulb on this HL 108A carb, any thoughts?

 

[Fordsoll]

IEL Stands for Industrial engineering limited, I think they used to make Pioneer Chainsaws. I would probably just put motoseal case sealer and a few pieces of paper to shim it like 2 or 3, just enough to get the .020 thickness. Some people would just do a base gasket delete and I do on my chainsaws but I have no idea how that would affect a saw this old.

 

[Fordsoll]

I found this parts list for your primer if this is any help

 

[Lightning Performance]

If you lower the cylinder be mindful of that skirt. Dry fit and then add a thin gasket like notebook paper with sealer if the quench checks out okay.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Here's the exhaust gasket. Take note of the part number. People on this site may have it available.

Red high temp rtv works as well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3625677004...3VGR0obRKC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Copper RTV HT is better or best. Red does work well.

 

[geochurchi]

Hi, the gasket material that I removed was certainly thicker than paper, I suspect that a thicker material would reduce compression, correct? May not be good, The piece I intended to use is .046 , FeI -Pro Pro Ramic 121.

 

[Fordsoll]

Yeah that will reduce compression and the saw will run poorly if it even runs like that. The thickness messes with the compression ratio and timing. Do what Lightning Performance and I suggested, I recommend Motoseal because I have used that for cylinder gaskets and case haves many times before and they don't leak. Black rtv also would work too.

 

[geochurchi]

Based on the fact that I have Permatex Ultra Copper gasket maker, that will be my choice, this is not a High performance motor .