Please Boycott Dolmar OPE

[davefr]

From the Dolmar dealer agreement: "The DEALER agrees to assemble, prepare for operation, and provide proper operating instructions to customer for all units upon completion of sale."

That means no shipping saws all over the country. Stihl and Red Max also have similar policies. All of their units must be set up and running when delivered to the customer. Husky chooses not to restrict dealers in a similar fashion; hence Baileys and Southwest Fastener etc.

Prior to purchasing my PS5100 I contacted several Dolmar dealers and they all shipped saws. (It's a good thing given Dolmar's dealer void on the west coast). If Dolmar enforces this clause there won't be any dealers left.

If Dolmar is trying to immitate Stihl's dealer model then they are doomed since they're about 2995 dealers short of what Stihl already has established.

 

[Luke]

Tony, sorry to hear about what happened to you.

I am probably not the only one that knew little about Dolmar until I found this forum. You are very active on this forum. My thoughts are,, how many Dolmars have been sold across this country because of your activity on this site. I bought two from "local" dealers trying to be a patron to the local guy. By the way, neither sells Dolmar anymore! Hard for me to believe Dolmar wouldn't want to keep anyone that paid their bills and increased their network. My guess would be that their added cost of having many small dealers/maybe part timers, adds nothing to there cost but does increase their market exposure.

I have Stihl, Husky, and Dolmar products. I find Stihl to be a very arrogant company with few class perfomance leaders and,,,, sorry,,,, grossly overated dealers. Husky has all of the sins associated with being part of a large publically owned company that compromises everything for next quarters earning report to Elux. I personally know 3 former Elux managers, so I am not exactly guessing on that one. Dolmar has some excellent products but is obviously culturally dysfuctional. Just look at their ability to gain US market share with good to great products. I think they may view the US market in a similar fashion to VW AG.

I think this market is ripe for a new, well run big player with good products. Redmax? Dolmar? Shindiawa? Solo? Echo? Stihl has a clear strategy, but their price points, products, and dealer quality leave them very vulnerable. Elux has no strategy other than "do anything for the next earnings report". Sad but thats our Wall Street world. Dolmar obviously needs to gut it's sales and marketing group in the US. To give Elux some credit, how long do you think their management would tolerate Dolmars sales penetration performance?

Tony, you've sold more saws for Dolmar than you get credit for. I feel bad that mine were not from you. I wish the best for you.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I have yet to this day never actually seen the dealer agreement!

You went into business with someone without reading all the documents? Not a good move. In fact, the worst possible move. Such an agreement MUST exist - to become a dealer and shell out cash and effort without reading the agreement was a very poor choice on your part. Lesson learned, I hope. I'd bet there was something in what you DID sign that referred to their policies in a general way, and held you responsible to abide by them.

How can I be held accountable for a contractual agreement I have never even seen, yet alone signed.

See above. You signed SOMETHING, or they'd never have shipped you a dime's worth of product. That SOMETHING referenced the full agreement. The usual language is something like, "...agrees to abide by [insert name of other document] , which is incorporated herein by reference." Once you signed the document that referenced all of their policies, you are on the hook. You HAVE signed up to them.

The last discussion I had with the area rep was that I could not advertise prices lower than MSRP,

Do you have that in writing? If so, you've got a great case. That's called price fixing, and it's illegal. Are you sure that's what's in writing? More likely, what they say is that they will not subsidize advertising unless you sell at or above MSRP. They can probably get away with that, but a flat out ban on selling below MSRP? Flat out illegal. Document such a ban and you've got them by the short hairs.

 

[JJackson]

From the Dolmar dealer agreement: "The DEALER agrees to assemble, prepare for operation, and provide proper operating instructions to customer for all units upon completion of sale."

"providing proper operating instructions", does this mean including the manual? Because it does not say anything about trainning the customer, so why could it not be done though mail/internet order? That is what they do for cars, guns, lawn mowers etc...

 

[trimmmed]

Again, the post with regards to my personal life was made well after the decision to drop me as a dealer was made. I never said I was going to quit all together, and in fact, I said I was going to focus more on local customers, which is what Dolmar and CPS want. But I did need to realize that my priorities needed to be adjusted a little.

Ok, I was just throwin that out there for you to consider, I was basing my timeline on you saying you found out just last week, they cut you off.

Their reasons seem weak, since dealers/dealer support are always mentioned as lacking with Dolmar.

 

[TonyM]

Wow, some of you guys sure are desparate to beat me up. Yes, a delaer cannot advertise at less than MSRP and have any advertising expenses subsidized. That is what I said earlier, and thus shortened the second time around.

I never signed a dealer agreement because I was never given one to read. The problem here is that the entire distribution network was revamped at the end of last summer, and no one really new what was happening with the existing dealerships. At first, the old dealers just carried over with the new distributors as is, with no new dealer agreements. Then there was a distinction between "stocking" dealer and "servicing" dealer based on how much cash you were willing to fork out up front. I was considered a "servicing" dealer for a couple months awaiting a decision on whether or not I was to become a "stocking" dealer. Then I got a message on my voice mail saying that I was being set up as a dealer (I assume that meant stocking), but was never sent any paperwork of any kind, other than an application to buy Oregon products which I didn't want or need. Next thing I noticed is that I could no longer order parts from CPS via the net. I assumed it was a computer clitch on their end. Then when I finally had to have stuff, I called them, and was told they have something wrong in their computers and that the order would still go out that day. It wasn't until I waited 3 days and no order arrived that I called back, and was told to talk to the area rep. I left him a voice mail. The next day he called and informed me I was no longer a dealer.

LACK OF COMMUNICATION! THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.

At this point I do not care if I sell Dolmar or not, as I do not think Dolmar has a future with such a lack of integrity and by making such poor business decisions (at least on the part of CPS). What bothers me is that I spent nearly two years working very hard to gain a handful of local Dolmar customers and promote them on this site, and so far the response from anyone I've talked to is that they will not be buying any more Dolmar products. Is that what Dolmar wants? Not only did I not gain from my effort, but what I had accomplished has been wiped out.

 

[Gearhead1]

I find Stihl to be a very arrogant company with few class perfomance leaders and,,,, sorry,,,, grossly overated dealers. Husky has all of the sins associated with being part of a large publically owned company that compromises everything for next quarters earning report to Elux. I personally know 3 former Elux managers, so I am not exactly guessing on that one. Dolmar has some excellent products but is obviously culturally dysfuctional. Just look at their ability to gain US market share with good to great products. I think they may view the US market in a similar fashion to VW AG.

Luke, you have hit the nail on the head in terms of describing these three companies. My own personal experience has been exactly along those lines. The Stihl dealers in my area have been pricks. The Husqvarna dealers have been getting the royal screw by the big-box sales of their product line. Sad for me to see, as this is how it was with McCulloch in their last years. And a thirty year Dolmar dealer even told me that the company was very arrogant and wouldn't listen to him regarding suggestions to the product line.

 

[458_lott]

TonyM,

First, I would like to say that I am sorry about your latest setback. You will get through this as you are a man that is of strong faith and good work ethic (evident from your posts here and the feedback from some of your customers). I don't know what your expertise is, but it seems as though you have a great concern for customer satisfaction and doing what you perceive to be fair and just. You state that you cut firewood and sell it (working for yourself). You state that you have interest in chainsaws (evident by you taking-on a Dolmar dealership). I can never seem to find a good chainsaw mechanic or an outlet for good used power equipment. Perhaps you could recondition saws and other power equipment and re-sell. Specialize, as you do, in bars, chains, other generic parts and work on and recondition saws. I went to an acquaintance who happens to be an Echo dealer (he's relatively new to owning his own business) and wanted him to go over my Homelite Super Mini VI. I had recently purchased an Echo CS-670 from him and it appeared he was struggling a bit. I thought that I was doing him a favor and also getting my Homelite serviced, etc. He flat out refused. He said that he didn't feel like working on Homelites, Macs or any other brand (he was a trained Stihl mechanic from when he worked for a Stihl dealership). I thought that this was a pretty cavalier attitude for someone that was trying to build a business.

It seems as though your heart is in the right place. Maybe you can turn this latest ordeal into a good thing. Become a repair person and someone who refurbishes saws. One can certainly get plenty of project saws off of e-bay and with your expertise and customer friendly attitude, you might be able to build a good business and most importantly, you will be working entirely for yourself. It is your time and energy for the firewood and your time and energy in buying, repairing and re-selling used power equipment. I know you would stay in business around here just by sharpening chain and working on power equipment; including your passion, saws.

Good luck to you,
Michael

 

[TonyM]

My two fastest growing areas have been chain sharpening and service on all brands. I have people who come to me with Stihls and Husqvarnas instead of the local dealers. I do not refuse to work on any brand saw unless the amount of money to repair the saw is more than the saw is worth. I know that If I do a good job repairing a saw, if that customer finally does decide to buy new, he's likely to give me a chance at the sale, and that is where having the Dolmar line fit in. That exact scenario has happened a few times already, and there are many more people with older saws that I have repaired that will be looking for new saws down the road. So those are potentially lost sales for Dolmar as well.

I am actually a degreed mechanical engineer, and a career in OPE will likely not pay as well as engineering, but there is something to be said for having a career you enjoy (not that I do not enjoy engineering). Same for cuttig wood. I enjoy getting out in the winter, smelling the two stroke exhaust, driving the tractor, and feeling self sufficient by burning wood to heat my home instead of LP. And while I'm out, I figure I may as well cut a little extra and sell some.

I'm not out anything by this whole mess. I've met many new people and had some experiences I otherwise would not have. I lost a little time, but not really any money. I know that no matter what this world dishes out, I'm taken care of. If God is for you, who can be against you? And I know the plans God has, plans to prosper me. So in the end, this will all work out to my benefit, even when I don't know how. Best thing is, I may get upset and anxious for a spell, but I know that there is no need to worry, for who can add a hour to his life by worrying?

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I never signed a dealer agreement because I was never given one to read.


...


LACK OF COMMUNICATION! THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE.

Yep. They are certainly screwed up on their end and you didn't ask enough questions.

The bottom line is, you signed on the dotted line blindly. That's not Dolmar's fault.

You can learn the lesson and change your ways or you can continue to play in the business world in this fashion and pay dearly for it. Your choice.

 

[WadePatton]

Do you have that in writing? If so, you've got a great case. That's called price fixing, and it's illegal. They can probably get away with that, but a flat out ban on selling below MSRP? Flat out illegal. Document such a ban and you've got them by the short hairs.

I think you misread that Mark. The way I read it--They don't let dealers ADVERTISE below list. They can certainly SELL below list. I'm quite certain that's what Tony is talking about.

 

[BIG JAKE]

Tony sounds like the timeless GREED thing going on here. They must have some reason to believe they can sell more saws that way. For me personally, I'd drive 30 miles from that town to buy a saw from you based on reputation alone. Heard alot about Dolmars but if they don't care about their own dealers then I'll stick with my Stihls also. Hope you can resolve this to your satisfaction I hate to see things like this.

 

[eyolf]

Wow...quite a thread!

I think Tony has "fallen through the cracks" as it were. Under the former distribution system, the older distributor had a kind of a 3rd category of dealerships...not really signed up, but they bought parts and maybe even whole goods...better than nuthin'. Now CPS is cleaning up the files. Tony was probably one of those 3rd category of dealers... no credit rating or floor plan, cash business, doesn't buy a lot, etc.

Now CPS wants whole line dealers that treat CPS as a one-stop shop...Dolmar, Oregon, Briggs and Stratton, Techumseh/Peerless gear/Eaton Hydro, and whatever else CPS is into. TonyM probably isn't into lawn mowers, except maybe his own, but there is probably someone within a few miles that has a bigger account with CPS; I bet CPS is wringing THAT GUY's arm to get more sales from him.

Early in in this thread, a Colorado poster mentioned the great relationship he had with MN Stihl. I knew those guys well; back in the early 80's I worked for a sister company in Brainerd MN, called North Central Outdoor Equipment, started because Ashcroft and a couple of his friends couldn't sell anything but Stihl out of the Stihl distributorship. Several lines of lawn and garden equipment were found with underperforming/non-performing distributorships, and we tried to jump start interest in lines like Jacobsen consumer lawn, Poulan/weedeater, Didier, Gilson, etc. We inherited a lot of dealers, but slowly weeded them out as became evident many were just looking for parts ; in those days lots of guys signed up just to get the 40-55% on parts (unsigned shops only got 25% markdown from list). A lot of these guys weren't even signed, just made it into a dealers list because of ordering parts, or maybe because their Grandad started the shop and sold some product 30 years ago, with nothing since.

I will go on record as saying that it really sux for Tony and a few customers; the customers end up with no support and Tony looks like a chump when a customer shows up looking for a "great new saw like you sold my buddy". My old company reinstated a few dealers on the promise of equal floor space with whatever else they might have been into; sometimes that meant a single lawn mower.

I'm no longer in the outdoor equipment trade, instead I now make foundry patterns and jigs for a mold-making company. As well, I am a trainer inside our company for Covey's "7 habits" as we try to move our work force into the 21st century. From THAT POV, I'd suggest that Tony take a deep breath, share his business philosophy and growth plan with his rep and ask them to explain why his plan of selling a few saws to pros and discerning casual users can't fit into THEIR business plan. Be very willing to listen, seek to understand their POV before forcefully arguing yours; try to establish a relationship with the rep on some level, building up trust before making any demands. The goal is to find a win-win for both...hopefully Tony gets to satisfy his customers, the rep sells a few more high-end saws than the Hardware Hank in town ever will. Be prepared for an answer you don't like, but also be prepared to be gracious in dissapointment. Integrity will take you farther in life than anything else will. Maybe you'll start putting Solo saws into the hands of users; what a dissapointment for the Dolmar guys eh!

 

[Luke]

Eyewolf,

I think that Covey material is pretty good. Don't you think the "sharpen the saw" material would be a pretty good pun for this forum!!!

 

[TonyM]

I just looked at my records. I have sold 32 new Dolmar saws in the last 1-1/2 years. I'd like to know the nearsest dealer to me that has sold that number of saws. I do not have an easy way to check whether that was in state or out of state without going through each bill of sale, but I bet that is roughly a 50/50 split of in state and out of state. I will write a query and get that data when I get time.

 

[Lakeside53]

Quote:
Do you have that in writing? If so, you've got a great case. That's called price fixing, and it's illegal. They can probably get away with that, but a flat out ban on selling below MSRP? Flat out illegal. Document such a ban and you've got them by the short hairs.

I think you misread that Mark. The way I read it--They don't let dealers ADVERTISE below list. They can certainly SELL below list. I'm quite certain that's what Tony is talking about.

Not saying this is the case with Dolmar, but its quite common and not illegal for a manufacturer to require a dealer of any type of merchandise to sell at a fixed price - it's called "unitary pricing". Try and buy Sony TVs "discount". Special promotions are often allowed, but in general the prices are "fixed". They still have to be able to compete in the global market though, so unless they have a monopoly (different problem), market forces keep thing on an even keel.

 

[stihltech]

sucks

Tony, I do feel for the loss as you are a guy who cares about what you sell.

The comments fromm Sedanman and others are the ugly truth. At 300 or more saws per year, Stihl thinks of us as small potatoes. We also pay each month so there is no backed up bills, which Stihl hates. No interest profit for them.

Cutting the other guy's throat by cutting prices will get you in the end. He will end up with more operating capital than you will. Simple capitalism.

The full time dealer puts in many hours a week. The little backyard person wants it on a small time schedule. Doesn't work. Pros work all day and need the saw back the next day. Most of my work is done after 5 PM. Can't fix them when they are cutting logs.

Anybody in business near you that you could part-time with? Always a need for GOOD small engine guys.

Best of luck.

 

[WadePatton]

Wow, you'd think somebody from Dolmar or the Distributer would chime in and defend they dang self.:greenchainsaw:

 

[Freakingstang]

Yeah Really, where is Dolmar_Tech_mgr at? He probably knows it was a stab in the back and doesn't want anything to do with it.....

 

[TonyM]

Again, I mean nothing against Terry Green, AKA Dolmar_Tech_Mgr. He has always been very helpful. And my emotions are probably a little misplaced against Dolmar. I doubt they know nothing of all this, or even care.

I did not say I have sold 32 saws like I thought it was a lot of saws, but for this county and surrounding counties, I'd like to know how many Dolmar saws have been sold. And I'm not talking about PS34's. I have been selling PS7900, PS7300, PS540, and PS5100s. I think I have done very well for just starting out with a name brand that 90% of people I talk with say they never heard of. If I say Sachs, then it is only 75% who haven't heard of them.

My point is this. Let's say I sold 16 saws locally, and those people like their saws. What are they going to tell their friends? Let's say 10 of those people are professional users. How many people are going to see a Dolmar saw being used then. What about the customers I promised I would be around to support with parts and service, and that was the final factor they used to make a decision to buy Dolmar. What about the many people who I have repaired saws for, and when they visited the shop I urged them to take some test cuts with a new Dolmar. When the finally wish to buy new, what brand are they likely to consider?

Now tell all these potential customers, "Sorry, I am no longer a dealer. You'll have to drive 30 miles to a shop that focuses on selling lawnmowers and see if they can help you out."

I'd like to be bigger, move more Dolmar products, and work into it full time, and that was what I was doing. If CPS would like to pay my mortgage, I'll quit my job, go and rent a retail space downtown and buy $10,000 dollars of Dolmar product so I can sit there all day long in the store with nearly nothing to do. Guess what, they wouldn't do that in a million years because it is finacially stupid. So why should I? There has got to be a market for Dolmar products in this area before it can support a bigger shop. I was doing the leg work here to get the Dolmar name recognized. Now most of my customers are just upset.