Pointed rakers

[heyduke]

Square holds up pretty good. It's about time for another chain race for the year.

sounds interesting, i don't sharpen race chain. i'd be clueless there. my chains are oriented toward the arborist, nothing exotic but able to hang in from one sunday night maintenance session to the next. i like the timberline because at the end of a work day i can sharpen my undamaged chain in a few minutes while i sip a cool one. and done properly, they come out v. sharp.

 

[mdavlee]

A work chain race would be cool to do. No chassis work allowed. Have to be able to bore cut into a log. Square or round.

 

[Moparmyway]

The timberline gets round very sharp no doubt, however its no better than a good round filed chain ............... and we all know a great round filed chain will loose to a good square filed chain.

Last chain race was an "open type" of race. Anyone could mail their chain (any type) to Hedge, and all chains were ran. Their times and descriptions were noted.

IIRC, round couldnt come close and was outside of the top 5 places in all cuts

 

[Terry Syd]

Well, if it was a 'work chain' race, maybe they should have been doing a dozen passes through a nasty piece of hardwood and then checking the times on the 13th pass. You know, make the 'work chain race' more relevant to what a work chain has to do. Around here where I cut wood, nobody runs chisel chain except some of the new guys that just bought their first saw - and that was the chain that came on the saw. (disclaimer - I've got one loop of RSC that I use to show off with)

Moparmyway, I noticed the 'pointed raker' in your avatar. Is that the way you set up your rakers? It looks like the raker has a steeper front slope (Bob L. type) and perhaps has been thinned a bit on the sides.

 

[Moparmyway]

Well, if it was a 'work chain' race, maybe they should have been doing a dozen passes through a nasty piece of hardwood and then checking the times on the 13th pass. You know, make the 'work chain race' more relevant to what a work chain has to do.

Funny how you say this .................. I believe this is why Hedge ran the chains again the next weekend. There was some cement in the Hackberry cant center and knotts throughout. All the chains got slowed down in that stuff and the cutters had to withstand all 6'4" of Hedge and his 7900 ...................... not an easy task for a "non work chain". Then they got ran in the pine.

Moparmyway, I noticed the 'pointed raker' in your avatar. Is that the way you set up your rakers? It looks like the raker has a steeper front slope (Bob L. type) and perhaps has been thinned a bit on the sides.

That raker is pure virgin stock ................untouched

 

[jughead500]

You guys think too much.

 

[Terry Syd]

What brand of chain is it? The raker looks like it has a 45 degree slope rising to a point. Crikey, maybe some manufacturer has already worked out the concept - and then we alter the design when we start filing the rakers.

Yeah Jughead, I've been told that I 'think too much' many times in my life, but then all that thinking sure saved me a lot of problems and created a lot of opportunities. And as a counter-argument, I can't count the number of times I looked at someone else's attempt at a 'Darwin Award' and thought "what was that idiot thinking?" I expect - he wasn't...

 

[Moparmyway]

What brand of chain is it? The raker looks like it has a 45 degree slope rising to a point. Crikey, maybe some manufacturer has already worked out the concept - and then we alter the design when we start filing the rakers.
..

New 3/8 RS with a .050" thick driver
This was my first cutter on my first attempt at squaring up my first whole new loop.
Prior to this new loop, all of my square attempts were done on culls and stump chains. (Full chisel for stumping ?? )

Some things stick out in the memory for a long time.
The day I got done filing this loop and running it was one of those memories that I wont forget anytime soon.

 

[redoakneck]

Great thread!!! Got me thinking, I can smell the smoke,

Really gets you thinking what's going on to make a chip, hard or soft.

Just finally got dialed in to my fg2, now thinking square grinder in the future


Very interesting concept

 

[mdavlee]

Well, if it was a 'work chain' race, maybe they should have been doing a dozen passes through a nasty piece of hardwood and then checking the times on the 13th pass. You know, make the 'work chain race' more relevant to what a work chain has to do. Around here where I cut wood, nobody runs chisel chain except some of the new guys that just bought their first saw - and that was the chain that came on the saw. (disclaimer - I've got one loop of RSC that I use to show off with)

Moparmyway, I noticed the 'pointed raker' in your avatar. Is that the way you set up your rakers? It looks like the raker has a steeper front slope (Bob L. type) and perhaps has been thinned a bit on the sides.

They did try to bore cut with all of them. A few weren't able to do it.

 

[jughead500]

What brand of chain is it? The raker looks like it has a 45 degree slope rising to a point. Crikey, maybe some manufacturer has already worked out the concept - and then we alter the design when we start filing the rakers.

Yeah Jughead, I've been told that I 'think too much' many times in my life, but then all that thinking sure saved me a lot of problems and created a lot of opportunities. And as a counter-argument, I can't count the number of times I looked at someone else's attempt at a 'Darwin Award' and thought "what was that idiot thinking?" I expect - he wasn't...

Hey i always think til my heads smokin' figured i'd post that to see what the outcome was.kind of like going onto a job site and saying "shoo damn its hot!" Or bringing a cute hottie to work with dd's.if i weren't a damn good guy and a hard worker i would have been fired years ago. i can get away with drinking beer on the job and actually got my buddy high on kava kava one time.that was funny as hell.he was so pissed he ripped his shirt sleeves off.At the end of the day we were setting indian style in a circle and he tied his shirt sleeves around his head.

 

[Terry Syd]

New 3/8 RS with a .050" thick driver
This was my first cutter on my first attempt at squaring up my first whole new loop.
Prior to this new loop, all of my square attempts were done on culls and stump chains. (Full chisel for stumping ?? )

Some things stick out in the memory for a long time.
The day I got done filing this loop and running it was one of those memories that I wont forget anytime soon.

I just went out to the shed and checked my loop of RSC (hadn't used it in 3 years) - and sure enough the raker has about a 45 degree slope and comes to a point. I wonder how many people put that 45 degree angle and point back on when they file their rakers.

 

[Philbert]

I wonder how many people put that 45 degree angle and point back on when they file their rakers.

I follow the guidelines and reshape the depth gauges to their original contour/profile. Used to use a file to do this; now I use a de-burring wheel on an electric motor.

Philbert

 

[Justsaws]

If I know that I will be in clear trees(rare occasion) I will get fancy sometimes even take some fresh filed square with all properly done up gullets and DGs but most times it is just a FOP or Pferd DG with the front barely beveled. Lately for sure I have been skipping the bevel or rounding of the front of the DGs.

Near as I can tell the rounded DG plows or digs less violently and allows for smoother cutter transitions. If everything is working together that should lead to less vibrations, more efficient cutting action. Might be better to say that the transitions happen quicker or faster with less tearing.

If the DG is long flat angled such as fresh off a FOP it seems as though the front edge of the DG digs more and seemed to cause more tearing of the chip at the end of the cut. The chip might be longer or thicker but more jagged and uneven. Given enough power this might be a faster chain through the cut as it is basically skipping a step compared to the rounded or beveled edge. This is the DG that snaps the most tie straps for me of the three types listed, especially in LoPro.

Barely beveled or round it worked better then nothing done to the front. It worked best if it was lowered beyond the FOP setup. The FOP and Pherd setups worked best if the DG was restored very close to the original shape.

Peoples results may be different but so far that is where I am at on DG. Toe and heal as well as rivot wear changes a lot depending on the shape of the DG.

 

[Moparmyway]

I just went out to the shed and checked my loop of RSC (hadn't used it in 3 years) - and sure enough the raker has about a 45 degree slope and comes to a point. I wonder how many people put that 45 degree angle and point back on when they file their rakers.

One thing I believe I have seen very consistantly;
That point is where some time can be lost or gained depending on the type of wood being cut.

 

[Terry Syd]

Well, I'm not a chainsaw racer, just a firewood hack, but with the various wood densities that I can end up cutting during a session - Crikey, I can go from one end of the density spectrum to the other.

I think the concept is valid and the RSC raker seems to support it. I'll just have to keep tweaking the raker a bit at a time and see where I end up. I think that nipping the edge off the side of the raker at maybe a 10 degree angle, a little bit at a time, could be another possibility of tuning the raker ( I don't know at this point, just got to try it on a few chains). - Everybody's mileage will vary, and what I may end up with in my area of Oz likely won't work in other locales.

I expect that there is some relationship between the 'up' angle and the width of the raker. Throw in a bit of 'tuning' with some tweaking of the edge/s, and ... who knows.

Another disclaimer, I do love it when some tweaking works out and I get a bit of giggle out of it (I use to build racing bikes, and tuning gets in your blood like some sort of alien virus).

 

[Philbert]

© OK Terry, here's how 'we' do it (although I am copyrighting this idea and claiming all patent rights!): we use a bi-metal raker, like the stuff used in thermostats. When the chain gets too hot from cutting hard wood, the depth gauge expands, lifting the cutter out to take a smaller bite. As the chain cools, it lowers the cutting edges in to take larger bites. ©

This works so much simpler, and is so much less messy, than my experiments with hydraulic lifters in each cutter!

Philbert

 

[heyduke]

© OK Terry, here's how 'we' do it (although I am copyrighting this idea and claiming all patent rights!): we use a bi-metal raker, like the stuff used in thermostats. When the chain gets too hot from cutting hard wood, the depth gauge expands, lifting the cutter out to take a smaller bite. As the chain cools, it lowers the cutting edges in to take larger bites. ©

This works so much simpler, and is so much less messy, than my experiments with hydraulic lifters in each cutter!

Philbert

careful, the epa/carb might take this and run with it.