Production line fire wood

[B-Edwards]

Ok guys i'm all ears i need suggestions. I sell firewood and have for a few years now. This wood comes from my tree service so its all free so far. I bought a TW-5 to make life easier because i have lost money every year so far on the firewood. I sell it by the face cord so it is consistent load after load. heres the trouble i split stack and we measure from the stack that way its the same every load. all the stacking is costing me money with labor envolved. What u guys recomend ? I like being able to deliver the same amount and customers do to . Whats the easiest way to do this? Huge pile and load on an average? Stack in some kind of rack and load with a loader? Gimme some answers and dont be smart arses, thats my job. Thanks

 

[Rspike]

If i lost $$ selling firewood for a few years ...............
I would take that hard effort and go to collage . Seriously , working that hard for 2 or more years and loose money ..............
Now if you talking taking the money and investing in in equipment / land what ever to have a profit in the long run maybe different.
I would think hard about getting of of the fire wood biz.

 

[B-Edwards]

I thought i told you that was my job? Iv'e lost money because of the help and the way i have done this, paying climbers to deliver wood doesnt work . My firewood business in the past has been to keep work for my guys when its to cold or windy to get them to climb . The older spiltter i had was a joke Tw-5 will do (and this isnt a joke) 10 times the splitting as my old splitter. I appreciate the reply but the answer is not what i wanted.

 

[Rspike]

I thought i told you that was my job? Iv'e lost money because of the help and the way i have done this, paying climbers to deliver wood doesnt work . My firewood business in the past has been to keep work for my guys when its to cold or windy to get them to climb . The older spiltter i had was a joke Tw-5 will do (and this isnt a joke) 10 times the splitting as my old splitter. I appreciate the reply but the answer is not what i wanted.

My answer was about to explode in the bottom of my stomach so i had to either reply or fart. Well ....... you got the reply but i farted anyway. Wish i could of helped tho.

 

[rozett]

I have a 12K dump trailer that I use to deliver my firewood. What I did was to stack the first cord nice and tight. Then I loaded it into the trailer. So I saw how full the trailer was with a solid cord and after that I just fill by sight. I also put a statement on my delivery ticket that says that I gaurantee that they get the quantity of wood they've ordered. I've delivered 200 cord in the last three years and I've only had one customer complain. Seems he stacked his 3 cord VERY tight and thought he was shorted. So I loaded up half a cord and delivered it, no questions asked.

As for loading... I do it by hand mostly. One of the complaints that I heard from people was that the big firewood dealers had lots of junk (bark, scraps, dirt, stones) in their loads. And I believe thats because they use a big loader to scoop up the wood from their drying piles. So when I started, I stacked the wood into the loader on my tractor and dumped that in the trailer. Many customers commented how clean the wood delivery was. Lately I just back the trailer right up to the pile with the tailgate open, and I get up into the pile and throw it into the trailer. Seems to take less time and gives me a little (much needed) exercise.

 

[ciscoguy01]

Idea

I have a 12K dump trailer that I use to deliver my firewood. What I did was to stack the first cord nice and tight. Then I loaded it into the trailer. So I saw how full the trailer was with a solid cord and after that I just fill by sight. I also put a statement on my delivery ticket that says that I gaurantee that they get the quantity of wood they've ordered. I've delivered 200 cord in the last three years and I've only had one customer complain. Seems he stacked his 3 cord VERY tight and thought he was shorted. So I loaded up half a cord and delivered it, no questions asked.

As for loading... I do it by hand mostly. One of the complaints that I heard from people was that the big firewood dealers had lots of junk (bark, scraps, dirt, stones) in their loads. And I believe thats because they use a big loader to scoop up the wood from their drying piles. So when I started, I stacked the wood into the loader on my tractor and dumped that in the trailer. Many customers commented how clean the wood delivery was. Lately I just back the trailer right up to the pile with the tailgate open, and I get up into the pile and throw it into the trailer. Seems to take less time and gives me a little (much needed) exercise.

That's exactly what I do also. I've loaded 1 face cord, then 2 and eyeballed the differences and noted how much after I piled and measured in the truck itself. When a customer buys wood from me, I always make it very up front that it is a ROUGH face cord, but a good one. That way, they'll either get a little more, but not really much less. I'm charging $50 a pickup load now, that's about an hour to 1.5 hours worth of work for me, and I'm sure anyone could do it faster as I have to drag wood like 30-40' for every block then split it by hand then load it. Most of those folks down in NC are country, they'll appreciate a handshake agreement over a paper one anyday, point being, be choosy about your customers, don't deal with some of those city snobs. They're the biggest PIA of all of'em. I won't even deliver to the city here anymore because of the grief with them. Also, since your in NC, hire some mexans dude, lol. That was a wiseass comment, lol...

 

[xander9727]

I provide a processor with logs all year and he sells me wood for $100 a cord. He sells it for $135 you haul. I sell for $200 delivered and I won't stack. I don't like to sell wood but if they want it I will. I make sure I'm always a little over so I don't have complaints.

 

[Rydaddy]

Help

B.,

I feel your pain, not in the firewood business, but I own my own small biz. I spend most my time trying to figure out the most efficient way to get things done. I have split and stacked enough wood that I totally understand your reasoning for the question. I'm sure somebody out there will have some first hand input.

Of the guys around my place that I have bought wood from, (when I run out) deliver it in a number of different ways. The one that made the most since was a small dump truck that was loaded by bobcat or tractor. And he must have it down pretty good, because he has delivered to me numerous times and it is pretty darn close to a Full Cord as you could get with that method.

Good Luck.

 

[Firewoodster]

Git Er' Done!

I sell firewood here in western kentucky by the face cord. We like to call it around here a "rick".
Point being.........I rick it first and as said in previous posts, load it in truck and or trailer and eyeball the volume of space that it takes up. I retail to city slickers and country boys and have no problem because I'm HONEST. I've not had the first "crybaby" in two years; go figure.
QUIT cryin in your beer and go to work yourself. If you want to make money,,.....get off your AS..............LOL
I'm a ONE MAN operation and I do an average of $950.00 weekly in profit.
"And I said PROFIT!!!!!!!!!"

2 HUSKY 36's and hopefully a 262XP delivered tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YEOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

[Husky137]

With that much profit you must have to pay Uncle Sam a big chunk of change every year.

 

[Firewoodster]

As my accountant said to me; "it's illegal to EVADE taxes, it's legal to AVOID them." So I just avoid them.
"I'm just scratchin' out a living."

 

[ciscoguy01]

Labor

Dude, I really can see what your sayin. Tell you what you have to do. First and foremost, you need to get a little tough on your labor buddy. Estimate how many cut/split cords perday you need to get out of your men to equal a profit for you. Then sit them down and explain it. Explain it all, show them paperwork. I'm sure your close with your workers, most good bosses are, so show them the problem you are having. Expenses, gas, their labor, what your taking in and make sure they know that if they can't produce more, you'll either have to stop doing that part of the business or get some different help that will get the job done so you can turn a profit. After all, business is business when it comes down to it. Cut down every expense you can, i.e. fewer trips when you know you are going to deliver to 2 or 3 places, make one trip and catch them all vs. the 2 or 3. You need what I believe is called Streamlining. Get with your guys and see what they think they need to produce more. Your options are there, you just need to use what you have at your fingertips. Don't go buying more stuff if your not turning a profit now, that's just more you'll have to pay for in the long run. I do know how alot of folks work down there since I lived there for like 8 yrs. That was a big grief of ours, too many lazy people everywhere, or not necessarily lazy, undermotivated. Set a goal for each man. You have say 3 men, make sure that say 2 cord of wood per man gets done/delivered each day, that's 6 cord total for 3 men, that VERY doable with the right equipment/materials. With 18 face cord/day being cut/split/dev'd, you should be turn around $1000 day, paying help would cost you say 4-500 for the day as well as expenses at say $200. Are you including initial setup/tools, you'll always take a while to break even with a newer setup because of all the initial tools. I'm a 2 man show, I deliver around 6 or so face cord/week, that's like 1 a day, and I turn a profit. I'm sure you can. I think you need to look at your whole operation buddy, not just the splitting and stacking part. Hope that gives you some ideas...

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If you are handloading, then just figure the average unit count per face and then give every a few extra sticks per load as a bakers dozen.

One guy I work with stopped doing a 16 inch billet and now does an 18-20 inch. Most of his clients are buring in fire places for ambiance anyways. Less work for the yeild. Do a little math and you can still sell 1/3 cord in 20 inch units.

 

[logbutcher]

Stupid is as Stupid Does

If i lost $$ selling firewood for a few years ...............
I would take that hard effort and go to collage . Seriously , working that hard for 2 or more years and loose money ..............
Now if you talking taking the money and investing in in equipment / land what ever to have a profit in the long run maybe different.
I would think hard about getting of of the fire wood biz.

Real bright there sweets. Sounds like your friend patrician John Forbes Kerry telling the 'stupid people' off. Remember ?
Stupid is as stupid does. F. Gump
If you haven't got the smarts to help out, hide.:bang: And we are so sorry that you have all these intestinal problems:rockn:

 

[logbutcher]

Stupid 101

If i lost $$ selling firewood for a few years ...............
I would take that hard effort and go to collage . Seriously , working that hard for 2 or more years and loose money ..............
Now if you talking taking the money and investing in in equipment / land what ever to have a profit in the long run maybe different.
I would think hard about getting of of the fire wood biz.

"collage" : an art assemblage.
"loose" : as in a loose knot when climbing
" getting of" : impossible to accomplish

Aren't you the one with the cute adjectives about AS people ?

 

[brian660]

I take a scoop with a wheel loader, I may get a little carried away and give somebody more then they ask for but their never short, I may be a little generous with the delivery but the hours upon hours saved not stacking more then makes up for it.

I was/am just a one man show when it came to firewood though, I dont see how those guys who only sell firewood make any profit even with dirt cheap labor.

 

[JUDGE1162]

Estimate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have been doing this for a few years you should have a good idea what a face cord looks like in the bed of your truck or in a pile. Just estimate when you think you got it throw on 5 more pieces and you should be good. Avoid stacking it takes a lot of labor, drop deliver or charge for stacking (find some unskilled/u=young guys to stack for you instead of your regular employes. Also offering customer the option to pick up and hual their own wood.

Unless it is a big order, load by hand. For big loads a frontend loader or a bobcat loader and a large pile work great.

You pick and hual operations are big around me, they charge by the load (depending on size of truck) 1/2 ton truck, full ton truck, other biger trucks price varies

 

[B-Edwards]

I guess I need to mention that in the (last couple of years ) that firewood has only been something for my guys to do when the weather was bad, I didnt care if it made money i figured i would break even and i was doing them and myself a favor. I kept track last year and it was costing me money for them to work with no return and thats not gona work. If I'm gona do it I'm gona be paid for it or I'll sit. This year I have already sold more wood than i did the entire last year. I do help now and we Get-R Done, they dont like it cause its not fiddle flib around and move like a snail anymore. But all thats been said (and i do appreciate the replys) there has to be a better more controlled effeciant way. If i keep doing firewood it will be with a processor, that could be a year or so from now. What about people who only do firewood for a living ? and not the guy with a pick-up and a maul. What about the big boyzzz doing firewood how do they do it?

 

[JUDGE1162]

You can buy a firewood processor, I got a flier the other day for a couple the company was Multitek Inc out of wisconsin they have one that range from a cord an hour to 3 cords an hour (this is raw logs to split firewood) they also offer a convetor that could load the truck for you. But you are talkig a large investiment for work you use as filler work for your guys. This processors start at 10K and go up from there so uless you plan to get into the firewood bussiness instead of the tree service bussiness that is a big nut to crack just for filler work.


I know a few tree service that do simular stuff (they don't use their skilled employees) but turn by product trees into firewood as a way to make a few extra bucks and get rid of the trees. They either do the big pile thing and use a bobcat to load their work trucks (holds about a cord to a cord and a half) or let people come and load their own. Avoid stacking it, it is a waste of time and effort and in the end money.

 

[ciscoguy01]

Processor

I guess I need to mention that in the (last couple of years ) that firewood has only been something for my guys to do when the weather was bad, I didnt care if it made money i figured i would break even and i was doing them and myself a favor. I kept track last year and it was costing me money for them to work with no return and thats not gona work. If I'm gona do it I'm gona be paid for it or I'll sit. This year I have already sold more wood than i did the entire last year. I do help now and we Get-R Done, they dont like it cause its not fiddle flib around and move like a snail anymore. But all thats been said (and i do appreciate the replys) there has to be a better more controlled effeciant way. If i keep doing firewood it will be with a processor, that could be a year or so from now. What about people who only do firewood for a living ? and not the guy with a pick-up and a maul. What about the big boyzzz doing firewood how do they do it?

Yep, I really don't think anybody cutting/selling split firewood does it with a processor. Way to inefficient.