Pros and cons of hiring employees

[treemandan]

Everything and everybody goes into hysterics and high rate when you put two words; Tree work. See, these two words are normally non-offensive when not used in conjucture. You can readliy admit to trees, having them, knowing them, being around them. And of course the word work is commonly used and under everyday circumstance not to much of a scary thing.
Tree work has been around long enough for the ins companies to figure out what is going on.

And not only do these words effect the insurance companies but also the people you hire. Ha ha, that's more real math though.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You need to run it as a business, not a job.

For W/C in WI you cannot change class codes for an employee's work day. I know of one company wh still does it, but it is suposedly incorrect with current regulations.

I am blessed with an agent who is a WAA/ISA memeber and has taken on an activist position for his tre care policy holders. Our cost has decreased to around 14% from 22% a few years ago, and he is trying to get the codes changed so that once areal work is completed the employees can be carried under a standard L/S code for cleanup.

Anyone in WI or the surrounding states should at least talk to Eric Petersen at Petersen & Associates.

BTW the WAA Day Of Service will be at Wood's National Cemetery this year, on the VA Grounds in MKE. Eric is our pointman for the DoS.

Can anyone come up here in March?

Date: Wednesday, March 9th, 2011
Time: 7:30am - 4:00pm

 

[pdqdl]

It's hard for me to believe that the actual laws concerning WC vary so much from state to state. There are obviously different classes of work, and an audit typically does not look at which employee worked which class of work, nor do they evaluate what time or date they do the work. Spot checking may occur, but only to verify accuracy of records, in my experience.

What the auditor asks for is payroll totals. How much $$ did you pay in each class of employee. That is how the premium is based, and that is what they are there to look at.

I have a demolition contractor that occasionally do work for (when he can't rip a tree out with his excavator!). He does the same thing with employees according to whether it is ground level demolition, or work on a 2nd (or higher) floor. Apparently, falls are pretty common, and the rates go up precipitously.

 

[lxt]

pdqdl, its not so much about classes of work or how the WC rate/code pertains to an employee............[B]Its about how your business is classified, atleast in PA!!!![/B]

As soon as I call my self a tree service & register as such I cant say.....whoa tuesday my guy was a shrub installer under lanscape code xxxx, would not fly here!

what one landscaper told me was to re-register as a landscape company but include tree care as being done occasionally.........then my WC rate drops considerably.............however... pray you never have an accident by doing it this way!!

LXT...............

 

[jefflovstrom]

In California, if your groundie is dragging brush and raking on a tree job, he is 50% same as the climber. If the trees are under 14 feet, it is a landscape WC and you need that license. You can not split it by hours.
Jeff

 

[jg55056]

I spit my employees hrs wc rate for trees 25% groundies 15%.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I spit my employees hrs wc rate for trees 25% groundies 15%.

Must be nice to have such relaxed reg's. What would happen if your climber is 40 feet up and drops a round on the groundie? The climber and the groundie are the same WC on that job. Split all you want, not here.
Jeff

 

[jg55056]

You make a good point. But everyone is considered on tree hrs until everything is on the ground. They tell me its too hard to keep track of. I tell them to take the extra 10% out of their check; that gets their attention and their time cards in line.

I would recommend talking to your agent or acutal ins company before doing this. I told them my situation and this is what they recommended.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Sounds good on paper but here you can not seperate the time on the same job.
Jeff

I am doing a job with 246 chinese elms, all structure prune and under 14 feet, landscape hours. Same job has 88 palms at 30 feet or more, tree hours. I do them on different days and can break it down that way but not break it down when the debris is on the ground to switch to landscape.
Jeff

 

[jg55056]

What is your ground rate.

 

[jefflovstrom]

What is your ground rate.

Around 14%. But you need that license and cannot break it down on a daily basis. The job is the job. If you got trees at tree rate done by 11am., you can not switch to landscape rate. Just the way it is. We have all the license's but use them accordingly. Being TCIA Accredited, ( only 1 of 4 in So-Cal), we know what legit is.
Jeff , CTSP #519

 

[jg55056]

Its no wonder why the economy is the way it is. That makes no sense. But then again ur in cali. Not much makes sense over there.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Good-night, jg, sleep well!
Jeff :msp_sleep:

 

[TimberMcPherson]

They are a gamble and they are insurance. The only thing harder than staff are no staff.

Staff are hard but not as hard as trying to safely and productively make a living doing trees by yourself for 30 years.

 

[TreeClimber57]

If the trees are under 14 feet, it is a landscape WC and you need that license. You can not split it by hours.
Jeff

Ouch yours hurts.. but if all are playing by same rules then ok.. it is the guys who do not pay WC that make it hard to compete. Still painful at end of day to see that money go out the door ! Must make some of your jobs pretty high in dollar value.

And 14 feet.. is that total tree height.. didn't know you had trees that short

Realistically.. anything that short would be some pruning work.. or it is a shrub.

 

[jefflovstrom]

We have several large developments with hundreds and hundreds of trees. They think they are saving money by having us do trees over 14 feet, and the landscapers legally can work any tree under 14 feet. What sucks is as the trees mature, we end up with hacked trees to deal with.
Jeff

 

[TreeAce]

Hey Jeff...isnt it 4:30 am in CA right now? Thats freakn early to be up and on AS.

 

[lxt]

In California, if your groundie is dragging brush and raking on a tree job, he is 50% same as the climber. If the trees are under 14 feet, it is a landscape WC and you need that license. You can not split it by hours.
Jeff

Pretty much the same way here, as soon as you go airborne above a certain height its tree W/C.............however, it depends on how your Biz is registered & I was told to figure averages...........in other words what % of your biz is tree work & what % is Landscape...........& then the Insurance agent will determine class code!



LXT............

 

[Climb020]

Would seem like a big pain to sit there and figure out hours for both tree and ground work. Guess it would really add up with a bunch of guys depending on ur WC rate. But as a sub. and only having to worry about carrying my own and my rate is only 17-18% it wouldn't be worth it for those few extra dollars an hour on shrub, brush and clearing jobs.

 

[lxt]

020, thats a good rate you have! Im in the middle of a lil debate here with a utility....they want my wc certificate & I told them no problem....But it would not pertain to the contract I am bidding.

I told them the planning/inspector contract would fall under a different classification, im not paying WC based on Line clearance work.....I will be providing them the policy for "consulting" work...whatever that code is?

funny thing is they didnt see the big deal untill I told them: "do you want me to charge you based on the line clearance rate or the unknown classification rate?; which im sure will be less than half" when I said I was going to pass the savings off to them...........then it was.....ohh, i see...yeah whatever you said! LOL


so really it all depends on what you pay as to determine your bid rate, thats what sucks here......mr. general contractor/framing construction has comp at a rate of around $14 per $100.............so he bids lower than me, gets the job, the certificate doesnt say what he`s insured to do, its just Valid & thats all that matters....................untill someone gets hurt!



LXT...............