Pros and cons of running your own business

[littlejoetqt]

Hello,
I am considering starting a tree care business, and I have a few stupid questions. First I'll give you my situation. I am a crew foreman for a utility line clearance company (Penn Line). In two years' time, I've climbed from ground hand/CDL driver to manual/bucket/spray foreman, and have worked circuits of all voltages imaginable. I have recently hired a climber with 19 years experience in tree work. Beside line clearance, he's done a good bit of residential work(the last 5 years before coming to work for me.) In that time, he's developed a fair customer base and a good name, but he wants someone to help him get a legitimate business started with it(namely me). I have no official education or certification in arboriculture, but my company gives various classes on pruning techniques, hazard tree/limb identification, etc, and I'm pretty confident in my climber's abilities as well.

I have any necessary gear to do prunings and removals manually, and either of us can climb comfortably, with or without gaffs. I have saws, climbing gear, rigging gear, pole pruners and pole saws, etc. He has a truck, I have a sharp mind for customer relations, marketing, advertisement and such things. We do not have a chipper, so any jobs we take would require us to remove the brush via pickup(I have a safe legal place to dispose of brush, (my farm) and wood (my heating stove).

Okay, here come the stupid questions. I understand that I will need a business license and liability insurance to operate legally. What I want to know is: What should I expect to learn(not the hard way) about residential work? I'm 100% confident that we can take on most jobs safely(excepting trees that aren't fit to put a climber in), I'm not so confident that my own experience is 100% adaptable to this work. I know absolutely nothing about cabling trees, but I'm not sure there's much of a market for such things in my area(very rural, no local regulations about trees that I'm aware of.) I'm a licensed pesticide applicator, but in utility work we only deal in phytotoxins...nothing about insect damage and treatment. Their solution to insect damage in trees is removal. There is a definite need for a legitimate tree business in this area, most tree work is provided by moonlighting drug addicts with no insurance and poor judgement.

Any input from current/past tree business proprietors would be helpful. What should I be looking at to strengthen my one-sided knowledge of tree care, how can I market myself effectively among a flood of lowballing moonlighters, and what problems should I expect to face?

 

[StihlRockin']

Hello,
I am considering starting a tree care business, and I have a few stupid questions.

Due to this statement alone, I have quit reading the rest of your post. I've been told for eons there's no such thing as a stupid question. Having learned, yes, some may qualify to be stupid, but if someone like yourself makes a long post, but first qualifies it starting with "I have a few stupid questions.", you can bet I probably won't waste my time. Because if a poster qualifies their own post as being "stupid", what does that make the others who take their valuable time to reply and post?

Good luck.

StihlRockin'

 

[sgreanbeans]

Most of what you have asked, has been asked before. So the answers are in here. Beat up that search button and you find what u seek. Coming from line clearance to residential, you will need to raise your standards. Alot of things u can get away with when working for a big show doing ROW (4ft nubs), those same practices will earn ya a bad rep

 

[chevybob]

Step 1. Cut trees down

Step 2. Clean up the mess

Step 3. Get paid

That's all there is to it.

 

[Toddppm]

Due to this statement alone, I have quit reading the rest of your post. I've been told for eons there's no such thing as a stupid question. Having learned, yes, some may qualify to be stupid, but if someone like yourself makes a long post, but first qualifies it starting with "I have a few stupid questions.", you can bet I won't waste my time. Because if a poster qualifies their own post as being "stupid", what does that make the others who take their valuable time to reply and post?

Good luck.

StihlRockin'

1rst thing, don't take any advice from this guy. Just look up some of his threads.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Step 1. Cut trees down

Step 2. Clean up the mess

Step 3. Get paid

That's all there is to it.

Removals makes up about 30% of our business. If you can make a living doing this, great. Me, I would prefer to do nothing but Japanese maple pruning for the same money.

 

[Zale]

Pro- you own your own business.

Con- you own your own business.

 

[StihlRockin']

LOL! Looks who's talking toddppm! Sure, have a look at some of my threads and you'll see I've asked for advice, offered advice, interjected humor and at times, have been in some interesting rants with my fellow treeman. I hold no grudges towards them either as this industry requires NO WUSSIES or someone may get seriously hurt.

Nothing unusual really, but looking at several of your posts, well, there's something to be said there. LOL! But I don't want to steer the post away in a direction off topic as the gentleman asked some good questions. I feel one should never belittle themselves... especially if they have questions that are important to them, yet calling them stupid... not wise.

Take care... and remember, I have the finger speed on this keyboard to not hesitate a reply to anything you have to say further. I suggest we stay on topic to get this fellow treeguy the answers he seeks. I also have a smiley or icon I'd like to show you, it's something like this --> but he holds only one digit up and it's not available here.

SR'

 

[chevybob]

 

[StihlRockin']

I understand that I will need a business license and liability insurance to operate legally. What I want to know is: What should I expect to learn(not the hard way) about residential work

how can I market myself effectively among a flood of lowballing moonlighters, and what problems should I expect to face?

First off you can operate in a great many places legally without insurance or a license. In fact over 1/2 the cities I've worked at required no license and if they don't require that, they don't require insurance. If they require a license, usually you will not be issued one until you can provide the insurance and/or work comp. depending if you have employees, do it yourself or do contract work.

Residential work is an open market. There are no set standards. You have the opportunity to talk one-on-one with the client and it really comes down to what you say, how you say it and your bid. I've often found at times the bid price is the least of the factors to determine if you get a job if you're the first one there and how/what you say to that client. Learn to read people. Start from the first time you talk to them on the phone or how they leave a message. Then look at their neighborhood, their house and vehicles. Then when you talk to them, try immediately to find something in common. Not that I'm "casing the joint", but I look awful hard at their belongings so I can tell something about their lifestyle. I may notice things like: an archery target, a bow in the garage, a golf bag, hunting gear, fishing gear, a neatly stacked pile of firewood, a well groomed yard, exceptional landscaping, dead spots in their lawn, etc, etc. I can say something about all these things to get a conversation started even before looking at the job at hand. If I don't find something I may have in common, you can bet the farm I'll find something I think interests them by looking at their yard, garage or vehicles, etc, and have THEM do most of the talking. People like to talk about themselves.

In short order, learn NLP, the study of human actions by their body language and not all about words. Learn what body language means and how you can use that in your favor.(I first learned in 1986) Become their sincere friend. You're there to help solve a problem for them at a fair market price and in prompt fashion. Gain their confidence in you. Pretty soon they're liking you and not really thinking about it consciously.

After doing several estimates you'll find your own way and own little spiel. Talk the same tone they do. If they like to look you in the eyes almost always, look them right back. If they take a glance and look away, do likewise. Mirror them. If they're an arm-crosser, do likewise, but quickly change to non-crossed because closed arms is not an ideal mindset.(skipping the specifics) Soon subconsciously there's the idea "he's like me", but won't be thinking about it. If you can be the first bidder, you have a strong advantage, so do your best to be there promptly.

Also, never talk bad or down about the other businesses. Yes we all do it, but as a professional on the job doing an estimate is not the time and is unprofessional. If push came to shove and you both realize this one business is a douche, just smile(acknowledge) and then move on to the positives, like how you can help this person who called you for your services.

Good luck to you on your new venture!

StihlRockin'

 

[tidy]

Reminds me of...

 

[CanopyGorilla]

First off, Todd is right. Stihlrockin is an ill informed duche nozzle. Secondly just go for it! Residential work takes some very fine cleanup to get a good rep though. I run a two man operation with nothing but a dump trailer and two good climbers. We have an outstanding reputation because we make sure we never do property damage, always clean up immaculately, and always wear ppe. When I climbed for a bigger company I never cleaned up, just climbed. Now I do both and make way more money. It also eats up more time. Start your biz, give up most of your free time, but you will feel great at the end of the day.

 

[CanopyGorilla]

Residential work is an open market. There are no set standards. You have the opportunity to talk one-on-one with the client and it really comes down to what you say, how you say it and your bid. I've often found at times the bid price is the least of the factors to determine if you get a job if you're the first one there and how/what you say to that client. Learn to read people. Start from the first time you talk to them on the phone or how they leave a message. Then look at their neighborhood, their house and vehicles. Then when you talk to them, try immediately to find something in common. Not that I'm "casing the joint", but I look awful hard at their belongings so I can tell something about their lifestyle. I may notice things like: an archery target, a bow in the garage, a golf bag, hunting gear, fishing gear, a neatly stacked pile of firewood, a well groomed yard, exceptional landscaping, dead spots in their lawn, etc, etc. I can say something about all these things to get a conversation started even before looking at the job at hand. If I don't find something I may have in common, you can bet the farm I'll find something I think interests them by looking at their yard, garage or vehicles, etc, and have THEM do most of the talking. People like to talk about themselves.

In short order, learn NLP, the study of human actions by their body language and not all about words. Learn what body language means and how you can use that in your favor.(I first learned in 1986) Become their sincere friend. You're there to help solve a problem for them at a fair market price and in prompt fashion. Gain their confidence in you. Pretty soon they're liking you and not really thinking about it consciously.

After doing several estimates you'll find your own way and own little spiel. Talk the same tone they do. If they like to look you in the eyes almost always, look them right back. If they take a glance and look away, do likewise. Mirror them. If they're an arm-crosser, do likewise, but quickly change to non-crossed because closed arms is not an ideal mindset.(skipping the specifics) Soon subconsciously there's the idea "he's like me", but won't be thinking about it. If you can be the first bidder, you have a strong advantage, so do your best to be there promptly.

Also, never talk bad or down about the other businesses. Yes we all do it, but as a professional on the job doing an estimate is not the time and is unprofessional. If push came to shove and you both realize this one business is a douche, just smile(acknowledge) and then move on to the positives, like how you can help this person who called you for your services.

Good luck to you on your new venture!

StihlRockin'

Stihlrockin, I don't generally like you, but this may be the most eloquently written and pertinent thing you have ever posted. Keep up the good work!

 

[BC WetCoast]

Many of our quotes are of the "stop by have a look at my tree and leave me a quote" type. In that case you need to determine what needs to be done as well as the price. You can't 'read' the client. It's easy if it's just a removal, but if the tree only needs pruning, then you need to show through your quote that you understand specs and standards. For example, we would get a request for a property walk around, so the quote may entail pruning, hedge shearing, shrub pruning and removals. I charge the same man hour rate for everything.

What I'm saying is residential tree care is a much broader field than just removals, and you need to learn the different aspects.

 

[StihlRockin']

Stihlrockin, I don't generally like you, but this may be the most eloquently written and pertinent thing you have ever posted. Keep up the good work!

"duche nozzle" LOL! Not a fan of what you said prior and was going to fry you on that, but like I said, I don't hold grudges... or try not to, but appreciate the good word. LOL! Also, you're wrong about me totally dude. Dig further into my posts and when you see me getting into arguments with others, you'll quickly see it's about me defending and replying. You will NOT see me first coming out and attacking people. It's not my way.

Regardless, you're a tree-climbing psychopath. I like that. LOL!

Be careful in the canopies.

SR'

 

[Toddppm]

LOL! Looks who's talking toddppm! Sure, have a look at some of my threads and you'll see I've asked for advice, offered advice, interjected humor and at times, have been in some interesting rants with my fellow treeman. blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...SR'

Even got a fancy little pm from him You have the finger speed to reply to anything, I'm impressed once again, keep on rockin

 

[jefflovstrom]

Hello,
I am considering starting a tree care business, and I have a few stupid questions. First I'll give you my situation. I am a crew foreman for a utility line clearance company (Penn Line). In two years' time, I've climbed from ground hand/CDL driver to manual/bucket/spray foreman, and have worked circuits of all voltages imaginable. I have recently hired a climber with 19 years experience in tree work. Beside line clearance, he's done a good bit of residential work(the last 5 years before coming to work for me.) In that time, he's developed a fair customer base and a good name, but he wants someone to help him get a legitimate business started with it(namely me). I have no official education or certification in arboriculture, but my company gives various classes on pruning techniques, hazard tree/limb identification, etc, and I'm pretty confident in my climber's abilities as well.

I have any necessary gear to do prunings and removals manually, and either of us can climb comfortably, with or without gaffs. I have saws, climbing gear, rigging gear, pole pruners and pole saws, etc. He has a truck, I have a sharp mind for customer relations, marketing, advertisement and such things. We do not have a chipper, so any jobs we take would require us to remove the brush via pickup(I have a safe legal place to dispose of brush, (my farm) and wood (my heating stove).

Okay, here come the stupid questions. I understand that I will need a business license and liability insurance to operate legally. What I want to know is: What should I expect to learn(not the hard way) about residential work? I'm 100% confident that we can take on most jobs safely(excepting trees that aren't fit to put a climber in), I'm not so confident that my own experience is 100% adaptable to this work. I know absolutely nothing about cabling trees, but I'm not sure there's much of a market for such things in my area(very rural, no local regulations about trees that I'm aware of.) I'm a licensed pesticide applicator, but in utility work we only deal in phytotoxins...nothing about insect damage and treatment. Their solution to insect damage in trees is removal. There is a definite need for a legitimate tree business in this area, most tree work is provided by moonlighting drug addicts with no insurance and poor judgement.

Any input from current/past tree business proprietors would be helpful. What should I be looking at to strengthen my one-sided knowledge of tree care, how can I market myself effectively among a flood of lowballing moonlighters, and what problems should I expect to face?

I will refrain,,but you sure are a glutton for punishment.
Jeff

 

[sac-climber]

"douche nozzle"

 

[CalTreeEquip]

Think I'll chime in here. Seems like the real question is, should you stay an employee or become self-employed.
I've been self-employed most my life. Worked for Davey Tree for 6 months before going it alone in a rural community. Did that for 20 years.
Here's the thing. If you'r real smart and I mean MBA smart, and real brave and real likable but firm and confidant without being arrogant then you might be ok.
That's if the economy, weather, customers, employees/partners and government cooperate. (The gov part is big in California. We have the BOE, DOL, IRS, CARB, TFB, DOT, DMV, CHP, CCB, CalOSHA, WC and I'm sure there are more. And if you don't comply there is always the DOC.)
Or you can just keep doing what you're doing and climb that corporate latter until you are ready to retire and maybe there is even a pension waiting for you.

 

[Toddppm]

Butt seriously LittleJoe, I think the hardest part about starting the business you're thinking of is the partner deal. There's a few good threads about just that part to open your eyes, you may build a business just to have it go down the shitter. The other thing cold be your market, what part of WV? Personally I don't know how some of the guys here build such viable businesses in small markets but they do! We're in huge market here and it can be tough.