question about back cuts (Moved from homeowner forum)

[logging22]

Yeah out here the big fires in tall timber can get pretty complex. Imagine if you will, a 22,000 acre fire in big timber and all of the snags and potential hazard trees have to be felled 500' inside the line and 200' outside the line all the way around the fire. I've seen as many as 16 falling teams in action at once, with 6 or 7 falling bosses. I spent 47 days as a faller on a 116,000 acre fire near Entiat, Wa. in '94. We even did "contour falling" on that fire which is where you fall rows of trees sidehill along the steep slopes to control erosion when the rain and snow comes. I heard later it didn't do a lot of good.

Probably dumb to say, but thats a lot of trees. Any chance of saving any of that timber? Or does it just all burn up??

 

[Jacob J.]

How did that not get caught in ICQS? I know guys who have had their taskbooks destroyed because there were too few people's signatures in them.

This was in '95 before ICQS was big business. Basically back then you only had your "red card" after you took the class. It was real easy for executive types to pencil-whip friends into desirable positions.

The whole task book/ICQS thing didn't start to really take shape until after Storm King Mountain. It was starting to come down the pike in '93 but initially no one was taking it seriously, especially the old timers (guys like Randymac.) Then after '94 the bosses told us we absolutely had to do task books. Of course ICQS was still in its' infancy and a lot of agencies (especially state) weren't in the system until '99 or 2000. I have five years of type 1 experience that's still not in ICQS.

 

[Jacob J.]

Probably dumb to say, but thats a lot of trees. Any chance of saving any of that timber? Or does it just all burn up??

Actually, the agencies here have been real good to do salvage sales after the fact. The real trick is keeping them small enough so they don't get on the radar of the big environment groups. The Tiller Complex in 2002 was a great example. The TSAs and fire staff kept it on the down low and sold a lot of good timber off that fire, probably around 600 loads worth. The Biscuit fire, the same year, was a real fiasco. By the time the agency satisfied all the lawsuits and environmental surveys, most of the timber was rotten to the stump. My cousin contracted on a big salvage sale on the Biscuit. He said they were cutting up to 80" diameter Firs and only getting one long log out of them.

 

[RandyMac]

Things were different JJ.
It took me 45 minutes to qualify for the 48" diameter endorsement on my red card. Two weeks later it was bumped to 60". They had to add a second card for the vehicle qualifications, if it had tires, they let me thrash it.
Did I ever tell you what I did to the Ranger's brand new pick-up?

 

[paccity]

do tell.

 

[2dogs]

Here are some nice backcuts.

 

[paccity]

that's some some special cuts right there.:msp_rolleyes:

 

[Joe46]

that's some some special cuts right there.:msp_rolleyes:

Wonder if your boy would endorse them?:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Joe46]

Yeah out here the big fires in tall timber can get pretty complex. Imagine if you will, a 22,000 acre fire in big timber and all of the snags and potential hazard trees have to be felled 500' inside the line and 200' outside the line all the way around the fire. I've seen as many as 16 falling teams in action at once, with 6 or 7 falling bosses. I spent 47 days as a faller on a 116,000 acre fire near Entiat, Wa. in '94. We even did "contour falling" on that fire which is where you fall rows of trees sidehill along the steep slopes to control erosion when the rain and snow comes. I heard later it didn't do a lot of good.

Wasn't that the fire where those 4 fire fighters were killed?

 

[madhatte]

This was in '95 before ICQS was big business. Basically back then you only had your "red card" after you took the class. It was real easy for executive types to pencil-whip friends into desirable positions.

Ah. Makes sense. I wasn't in fire in those days.

Wasn't that the fire where those 4 fire fighters were killed?

You're thinking of Thirtymile in 2001.

 

[Joe46]

Ah. Makes sense. I wasn't in fire in those days.



You're thinking of Thirtymile in 2001.

Ah yes you are correct. It was in that Entiat area though wasn't it?

 

[madhatte]

It was in that Entiat area though wasn't it?

Different ranger district, same NF. Right next door, basically.

 

[Johny Utah]

Here are some nice backcuts.

Are these pics from a blind man telling the deaf man that he made a nice face cut and now he can start his back cut.:bang:

 

[Johny Utah]

This is how my father in law cuts down trees. He does attempt a face cut before cutting at a 45 down to meet his face cut. I refuse to cut wood with him. I tried to explain the purpose of bore cutting to him and he didn't even try to understand the theory behind it before dismissing it as garbage.:censored::bang::bang:

 

[slowp]

This is how my father in law cuts down trees. He does attempt a face cut before cutting at a 45 down to meet his face cut. I refuse to cut wood with him. I tried to explain the purpose of bore cutting to him and he didn't even try to understand the theory behind it before dismissing it as garbage.:censored::bang::bang:

That is the slopping cut. It has been discussed quite thoroughly on this forum. There is an expert on this method that shows up oncet and a while on here.

The Thirtymile fire was in the Methow Valley which is the next drainage over from the Entiat. I do not think we will ever really know what happened. There were a few versions. The Forest Service is good at keeping people quiet on such things. Messages are sent out saying that you are not to comment or speak of such matters if questioned. Sigh.

 

[slangegger]

Am I the only one waiting for Mr. RandyMac to tell us what he did to the rangers pickup?:msp_tongue:

 

[madhatte]

Am I the only one waiting for Mr. RandyMac to tell us what he did to the rangers pickup?:msp_tongue:

Naw, but I can assure you that when he gets to it, it will be a doozy worth the wait.

 

[Joe46]

That is the slopping cut. It has been discussed quite thoroughly on this forum. There is an expert on this method that shows up oncet and a while on here.

The Thirtymile fire was in the Methow Valley which is the next drainage over from the Entiat. I do not think we will ever really know what happened. There were a few versions. The Forest Service is good at keeping people quiet on such things. Messages are sent out saying that you are not to comment or speak of such matters if questioned. Sigh.

Thanks MissP. I went by the gravesite of one of the young men that was killed. He is buried in Roslyn. He was quite the young man.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

The thirty mile fire was a IC failure,bottom up failure.

 

[madhatte]

The thirty mile fire was a IC failure,bottom up failure.

That is a gross oversimplification and shows no respect for anyone involved. You weren't there. Kindly refrain from the finger-pointing.