Questions on Mini's.

[sawinredneck]

I snagged a used Thomas 25G, bucket and a used BMG for a song, low enough I wont say. Lots of hours on the machine, but it's easy enough to work on.
If you load the trailer right you can pull all the brush off with one grab of the grapple and drag it off.
I can rent about anything I'd need for $150 a day or less, trencher, auger, tiller etc. I built a set of pallet forks for around $200.
No, it wont do what a larger machine can, but what it does, it does well! I can see better, I can get off and on in a flash, I can get in and out of places even a 4 series Bobcat can't, horse stalls for instance!
I have moved a lot of snow, wind chill of -27 once, sure a heated cab would be nice, but I can get in closer than a full size machine can, I can do sidewalks without tearing up yards and it beats the hell out of a shovel!
Is it perfect? No! Is it pretty much perfect for tree work? Hell yes! Even with my broken back it turns me into a three man crew! Shag brush with one for a day, then go back to doing with out it, you will hate life!

 

[ducaticorse]

I snagged a used Thomas 25G, bucket and a used BMG for a song, low enough I wont say. Lots of hours on the machine, but it's easy enough to work on.
If you load the trailer right you can pull all the brush off with one grab of the grapple and drag it off.
I can rent about anything I'd need for $150 a day or less, trencher, auger, tiller etc. I built a set of pallet forks for around $200.
No, it wont do what a larger machine can, but what it does, it does well! I can see better, I can get off and on in a flash, I can get in and out of places even a 4 series Bobcat can't, horse stalls for instance!
I have moved a lot of snow, wind chill of -27 once, sure a heated cab would be nice, but I can get in closer than a full size machine can, I can do sidewalks without tearing up yards and it beats the hell out of a shovel!
Is it perfect? No! Is it pretty much perfect for tree work? Hell yes! Even with my broken back it turns me into a three man crew! Shag brush with one for a day, then go back to doing with out it, you will hate life!

I fully agree it makes work easier, no argument there.

The bobcat 4 series has a 36 inch width, I think it can fit pretty much anywhere the minis do.

The bobcat 4 series is a sidewalk plowing beast.

You've got balls for standing on that thing in -27 degree weather for any amount of time, so props to you on that one! I'll be in my heated cab doing the same thing in my 4 series, (except of course freezing my sack off)

Perfect for tree work is subjective at best. I do mostly take downs here in town, so it's easier to have a bit more power and height along with the same accessibility *NOTE* (there is at least 1 mini that I know of that has a higher weight lift capacity than the late model 453 700LBS) so I don't have to trailer around an extra dump trailer to load into.

Again, to each his own. My thoughts on the subject are more of a business (cost analysis) nature. I do realize they can be usefull, they are however not the best way to spend your money given the options.

 

[sawinredneck]

The Thomas is shorter and the better visibility lets it snake in and around gated areas better. Been there a time or two, the 763 fits through the gate fine, but can't snake it around the barbque grill and tree on the other side.
I'm not badmouthing the 4 series, I was originality looking at that and the New Holland version, but at the time I could buy a full size (new) cheaper than the small machine? That didn't make much sense to me!
I used to work for a Bobcat dealer, White Star in Wichita Ks, I hated getting in and out of the 4 series machines! I'm a big boy, 6' 275, not bad once in, but that in and out killed me!
Bet you didn't know they used to make a 3 series? PITA to work on, even harder to get in and out of!
I wish I had the lift height you have for sure! But I wouldn't give up the visibility and maneuverability to get it!
They all have pros and cons, it's weighing what you consider important to you and your needs. My main need, and reason for buying the Thomas was I cut firewood 100 miles from home. Anything I take with me has to come back, I can't leave anything out there for fear of being stolen or trashed when I get back! I can load two full ( three face cord) cords of wood on a 16' trailer, with the mini on the back of the trailer and pull it all home.
It fit my needs best.

 

[treeman75]

You have one of the expensive ones too. What is your "all in cost" with everything you use on any given day. Branch manager, dump trailer, anything else I may have missed?

New dump trailer 6500, used mini 7500, BMG 2000=16000. I did that last month in sales.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Seems like most of you guys are getting good deals on your mini's. They wanted $17,000 for low hour rental unit's at Bobcat. For that money there was no way I was going to bight. Anything under $10,000 that I found seemed like junk. Instead I spent $18,000 on my 41hp 4x4 compact tractor with 150hrs.

I use 1 tons with sideboards for hauling wood, so the mini wasn't going to have the lift height. That was the main deal breaker for me. Now I have the height, the speed, can lift a mean load, can load the whole truck from over 1 side, and am extremely turf friendly. I can't do 360's around a bbq grill but hey, I'll just move the grill.

 

[sawinredneck]

If you can move a brick or stone BBQ and not have the HO rip you a new one, you are a better man than I!
If you want to drive your machine across the HO's stamped concrete pad to get to the job and risk blowing it out, you got more balls than I!

 

[ducaticorse]

If you can move a brick or stone BBQ and not have the HO rip you a new one, you are a better man than I!
If you want to drive your machine across the HO's stamped concrete pad to get to the job and risk blowing it out, you got more balls than I!

Touche on the brick or stone bbq. On the stamped concrete, 3/4 ply, and we're all good in the hood. I've done zero removals where a stone or brick bbq was in the way. Even then, I think the 4 series is up to the challenge, but if it's not, I know I can spend 30K on a mini to get the job done!

 

[ducaticorse]

New dump trailer 6500, used mini 7500, BMG 2000=16000. I did that last month in sales.

Glad you're doing ok in sales, but it still doesn't mean the mini is a sound investment, just means you can afford it. The two numbers are apples and oranges.

 

[arbor pro]

I find it a bit humorous how those who don't own mini skids are quick to dismiss their value while those of us who own them are quick to defend them. Call them toys but you let me ask you this - how many saws do you own? If you have never owned a stihl ms200 (or two or three) along with five or six other top end professional saws, you probably aren't familiar with the concept of using the right tool for the job. Once you've been doing this for 25 or more years, you come to understand that not every piece of equipment is perfect. That's why you justify being an equipment junkie and owning a whole bunch of stuff including a mini skid! :msp_tongue: Truly, I have been using minis for 6 years now and if I had to choose one skid loader - a full size machine or a mini skid - well, the mini skid wins. If you're only argument is that a skid steer with a cab works better for snow removal - well, maybe you should own the skid steer with a cab then. But, if you really want a machine that goes where other machines can't go and easily replaces 1 or 2 ground people, the mini skid can't be beat.

Duticorse, you can argue against mini skids all you want - say they're too wimpy and too expensive - but, you just can't win the argument against those of us who have come to rely on them day in and day out. They are worth their weight in gold and I'll stand behind that until the day I retire from this profession. If you don't buy into the mini skid arguement, that's fine. But, if you've never owned a ditch witch sk650, you don't know what you are missing. It's like trying to make the arguement that a stihl ms192 is just fine and you don't need the expensive ms200...

AP

 

[treeman75]

I use my mini all the time. Its the jobs when its 95 out and your doing a big one in a back yard and there is a hill to go up, thats when they pay for them selves. You dont need to spend 30k on a setup and once you use one a while you will find a way to afford one.

 

[treeman75]

Hey arbor pro I looked at the spects on both vermeer and ditchwitch and they both look the same. The ditchwitch lifts 1" higher other than that I dont see much difference. Am I missing something? Thats on s600tx and sk650

 

[ducaticorse]

I find it a bit humorous how those who don't own mini skids are quick to dismiss their value while those of us who own them are quick to defend them. Call them toys but you let me ask you this - how many saws do you own? If you have never owned a stihl ms200 (or two or three) along with five or six other top end professional saws, you probably aren't familiar with the concept of using the right tool for the job. Once you've been doing this for 25 or more years, you come to understand that not every piece of equipment is perfect. That's why you justify being an equipment junkie and owning a whole bunch of stuff including a mini skid! :msp_tongue: Truly, I have been using minis for 6 years now and if I had to choose one skid loader - a full size machine or a mini skid - well, the mini skid wins. If you're only argument is that a skid steer with a cab works better for snow removal - well, maybe you should own the skid steer with a cab then. But, if you really want a machine that goes where other machines can't go and easily replaces 1 or 2 ground people, the mini skid can't be beat.

Duticorse, you can argue against mini skids all you want - say they're too wimpy and too expensive - but, you just can't win the argument against those of us who have come to rely on them day in and day out. They are worth their weight in gold and I'll stand behind that until the day I retire from this profession. If you don't buy into the mini skid arguement, that's fine. But, if you've never owned a ditch witch sk650, you don't know what you are missing. It's like trying to make the arguement that a stihl ms192 is just fine and you don't need the expensive ms200...

AP

Thank you for your input Arbor Pro. You have some wonderful equipment, and I really applaud your innovations such as your converted chip truck, the paint, and the chipper you had redone earlier in the year. All look absolutely perfect. And congrats on your write up in TCI magazine.

Obviously the people who have just spent 30K on a machine that takes the place of one person dragging brush is going to defend the purchase to the hilt, Otherwise he or she will have to admit that they made a big mistake spending that kind of money for a very limited jump in productivity. Let me ask you this, how many major tree outfits are running these machines? I can't name one. They spend a hundred K a year doing R&D thinking of ways to increase productivity, but yet, they haven't decided to jump on the mini train yet, and for good reason. Not to mention that, in this economy, a BUSINESS person, (notice how I used the adjective business, and not tree guy) needs to stretch his dollar to the fullest. I realize that these mini's are helpful, NO DENYING THAT. BUT are they a wise investment considering the options? ABSOLUTELY NOT. WHY on earth would you feel it necessary to go out and spend that muvh money on a TOY, when you can purchase a 4 series that does considerably more, for a fraction of the cost, and yes, I will bring up the snow removal aspect once again. Not to beat a dead horse, but because it is a significant portion of why I think the way I do. *NOTE* I purchased my super clean late 1400hr 453 for $3K, and added an HD grapple bucket for $600 to toal $3600 all in. This deal is not your average, but it is attainable.

When this economy goes to crap again, as it likely is going to soon enough. We can revisit this convo, and take a tally as to who wishes they weren't covering a $30K nut to do the work of one maybe two ground guys. I'll be billing 65 an hour for my 4 series and MAYBE do some tree work during the nicer months ;-0 And Arbor Pro, you're too intelligent to say these mini's are worth their weight in gold, that statement is just FOS. Maybe if you're an old timer with a bum ticker or f'd up back, other than that, PLEASE. I hope that when I read the classifieds from inside my heated, enclosed cab on my break, that I don't start seeing "mini's" listed on fire sales.... Again, My opinions are formed from purely a business persons perspective, so please keep that in mind when thinking about what I just wrote.

 

[ducaticorse]

Hey arbor pro I looked at the spects on both vermeer and ditchwitch and they both look the same. The ditchwitch lifts 1" higher other than that I dont see much difference. Am I missing something? Thats on s600tx and sk650

That 1 inch higher is still not high enough to load a dump with 2ft boards

 

[arbor pro]

That 1 inch higher is still not high enough to load a dump with 2ft boards

sk650 is 32hp and only 36" wide with narrow tracks. There is a great comparison of the vermeer 600 and dw650 at Ditch Witch SK650 vs. Vermeer S600TX - Ground Trades Xchange - a landscaping forum Just a completely different beast if you compare the power of the two.

 

[Juicemang]

Snow is a freaking joke... let the lawn guys deal with it. There is not enough money in snow to get me to drag my ass out of bed at 2am and push snow around. Not to mention the wear and tear on the equipment with the salt. But hey if you only spent $3000 on somebodys leftovers i guess you wouldn't care about long term.
"bviously the people who have just spent 30K on a machine that takes the place of one person dragging brush is going to defend the purchase to the hilt" Using it for dragging brush is a bonus. I bought it for logs. You think you cant pick up wood with a mini your dumb. So where you might take out 1500lb piece with your bobcat I will take it out in 2 pieces, big deal, atleast im not carrying around a path of plywood with me. The guy I started with had a bigger bobcat and it sat in the yard all but a day or 2 a month. We were constantly cutting small/medium trees to firewood length and loading it by hand. Working for him was like working in the stone age. MINI IS WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD.

 

[ducaticorse]

Snow is a freaking joke... let the lawn guys deal with it. There is not enough money in snow to get me to drag my ass out of bed at 2am and push snow around. Not to mention the wear and tear on the equipment with the salt. But hey if you only spent $3000 on somebodys leftovers i guess you wouldn't care about long term.
"bviously the people who have just spent 30K on a machine that takes the place of one person dragging brush is going to defend the purchase to the hilt" Using it for dragging brush is a bonus. I bought it for logs. You think you cant pick up wood with a mini your dumb. So where you might take out 1500lb piece with your bobcat I will take it out in 2 pieces, big deal, atleast im not carrying around a path of plywood with me. The guy I started with had a bigger bobcat and it sat in the yard all but a day or 2 a month. We were constantly cutting small/medium trees to firewood length and loading it by hand. Working for him was like working in the stone age. MINI IS WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD.

Always has to be an idiot in the group to dumb down the conversation......

Snow is a freaking joke? The joke is you bro. I billed out almost $40K between 3 trucks in three months last year... I'm guessing that is a bit more than you make in a year, but it's only a guess. You obviously know nothing of the subject, or are a lazy ahole who doesn't clean and service your equipment properly after use, because if you did, you'd know that with a good pressure wash and the grease gun, the salt is easily overcome.

Now back to the mini's. If you had the ability to comprehend, (which at this point, I am doubting) you'd notice that I was making a direct comparison with a 4 series bobcat. Look it up, and it's capabilities before you start whaling off about this and that, because you just made yourself look stupid for a second time in your reply. If you're up for an intelligent discussion, please chime in. If you're going to go off half cocked and totally misinformed while at the same time calling me "dumb", just stay out of it.... I could continue to pick apart your response and make you look like even more of an idiot, but I think even you will get it at this point. Judging by your post, I am WAY smarter than you, and will continue to use your own sentences against you in order to illustrate how stupid you are, and I'll have a blast doing it.

 

[ducaticorse]

I've got a Bobcat 7753 and a Boxer 320.


The Boxer ends up doing more wood moving on the residential tree work I do. Sure the much larger Bobcat can do more work....but often it can't get to the wood.


A nice plus with the boxer is it rides nice the back of my 3/4 ton 4x4 pulling a dump trailer.


The big beat down on the mini's seems foolish.

It's not a beat down, I was at least trying to keep it as "scientific" and reasonable as possible. Yes the large bobcats are a no go on the smaller resi jobs, but I am specifically speaking of the 4 series bobcat. The conversation, way back when, was about the cost comparison, and multi-functionality of the 2 different types of machines.

 

[sawinredneck]

It's not a beat down, I was at least trying to keep it as "scientific" and reasonable as possible. Yes the large bobcats are a no go on the smaller resi jobs, but I am specifically speaking of the 4 series bobcat. The conversation, way back when, was about the cost comparison, and multi-functionality of the 2 different types of machines.

Again and still, you don't get it! I paid $4250 for my Thomas, smooth bucket and used BMG delivered to my front door! It had 1200 hours on it, the pump was weak, I was given a new pump with the purchase. I had to buy two tires, no biggie!
You can't see jack out of the back of that 4 series! It's longer, it's wider it's just plain more awkward!
You are the one not getting it and fighting the trend!

 

[ducaticorse]

Again and still, you don't get it! I paid $4250 for my Thomas, smooth bucket and used BMG delivered to my front door! It had 1200 hours on it, the pump was weak, I was given a new pump with the purchase. I had to buy two tires, no biggie!
You can't see jack out of the back of that 4 series! It's longer, it's wider it's just plain more awkward!
You are the one not getting it and fighting the trend!

I do get it my man, I do. It is a pita to get in and out of, I'll give you that, but I run a 3-4 man crew, so there really isn't any need to be constantly getting in or out.


I've said my peace on the subject, I'm not going to comment on the thread again. See you in the trees!

 

[Juicemang]

So its ok to spout off about how you don't like minis but as soon as someone doesn't like your bobcat you flip your lid. Instead of giving the guy good information you just go off on how horrible minis are and how you got the best deal ever. You could have just said I bought a bobcat and this is why... I rarely post on here but you come off as an ahole spouting off that your bobcat is the best thing since pounding puss. Have fun being at the whim of the weather this winter ill be visiting mexico in January and BVI in February