quoting formula
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treesquirrel
ArboristSite Guru
No formula but.....
Most of my jobs I will quote based on the time I think it will take to get it done. I'll add fixed amounts per day for hauling and chipping if it is included in the scope of work based on number of trips to the dump and number of days we will have the chipper on site if requested.
But essentially I estimate the time and multiply by my rate which I will not divuldge here.
Most of my jobs I will quote based on the time I think it will take to get it done. I'll add fixed amounts per day for hauling and chipping if it is included in the scope of work based on number of trips to the dump and number of days we will have the chipper on site if requested.
But essentially I estimate the time and multiply by my rate which I will not divuldge here.
Gate Keeper
ArboristSite Lurker
Removals range from $200 - $10,000
pbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
But sometimes sarcasm is fun! 
I figure what my time is worth - the more time the more the bid. If clean up in involved, I add the time and the fixed costs associated with that. :chainsawguy:
I figure what my time is worth - the more time the more the bid. If clean up in involved, I add the time and the fixed costs associated with that. :chainsawguy:
Timberhauler
Addicted to ArboristSite
I figure the total amount of time spent on the job from start to finish..or at least as close as accurate as I can be.This would include travel and hauling time...If use all four of my guys on the job,a chipper and a skid loader I like to get $250 per hour..It goes down from there...Two guys and a chipper.150 an hour..On the average I try and get 200 an hour...It has taken me a while to get my time estimate accurate.
Husky137
Addicted to ArboristSite
Its pretty basic. you have to know what your rate needs to be to make the money you want and cover expenses, whether it be a daily rate or an hourly one and then multiply by how long you think the jon will take. It will take some time to get good at knowing how long a job will take.
Or you can do it treeco's way and remove all of the guesswork.
Or you can do it treeco's way and remove all of the guesswork.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
I know that there's many companies large and small that use this outstanding, innovative and pioneering system.
It has been calibrated through years of knowledge.
It assesses the skills of key players such as climbers for the tree at hand.
It is highly calculative of the machinery you possess.
It is even astutely accurate on hired equipment such as cranes, factoring in travel time isn't a dilemma with this clever system.
It is client focused, giving maximum bang for the buck.
It goes like this ......
"We'll beat any written bid". :hmm3grin2orange:
ASD
Addicted to ArboristSite
BUT THAT TAKES ALL THE FUN OUT OF IT:biggrinbounce2:
ASD
Addicted to ArboristSite
this is a good start but u also have to know what your computation would charge and what the market will bare as u do not want to leave to many $$ on the table!!! it all depends on the toys u have and how good u are with them ! most tree co's have about the same hr rate for labor so it comes down to how much faster your toys make you! if the co's u compete with will take all day to remove a tree and charge $1500 and u can do it in 4hr
biggrinbounce2: ) u bid it at $1450 not $750ponderosatree
ArboristSite Operative
Figure out how much it costs to run your company (payroll, insurance costs, rent, equipment, etc.) and based on that figure out how much it costs you per hour to run you company. Then add your profit margin on top of that. If you have trouble figuring that out then get a bookkeeper and for godsakes DON'T co-mingle your personal and business purchases. Have one bank account for business and one credit card for business.
If it costs you, say, $50,000 a month to run your company, average month has 22 weekdays/working days in it. That's $2273 per day or $284 per hour. I would add about 10% to 25% on top of that for profit/buffer so a max of about $350 an hour.
The most important thing is knowing how long it will take you to complete a job. Only experience will help you with that.
Gate Keeper
ArboristSite Lurker
All kidding aside
You bid a job for what its worth to you and your company, like everyone has been saying. But the trick of it is to bid it the way, like say you were doing the removal yourself, you would price it so that when you got up at 5:30 6 am in the morning, you would be smiling.
You bid a job for what its worth to you and your company, like everyone has been saying. But the trick of it is to bid it the way, like say you were doing the removal yourself, you would price it so that when you got up at 5:30 6 am in the morning, you would be smiling.
03treegrunt11
ArboristSite Lurker
I take the height in inches and multiply it by the weight in pounds and then divide by 7,500.
If I don't like the results I just take a wild ass guess.
I usually base my estimates on the time I think it'll take plus fuel, dumping, and insurance......but, I think I'm going to try out TreeCo's method.....:notrolls2:
rfwoodvt
ArboristSite Operative
Clearly ours is an industry that involves mostly time and cost of equipment operation. There are some materials but for the most part that can easily be figured.
We have been using a chart that helps us approximate the time. Sometimes the final numbers looks right...Yeah the chart says that Pinus strobus will take 5 hours from take down to final shovel of needles into the truck. Sometimes it says 3 hours but we all know from past experience that that particular tree in NFW will be finished in less than 9.
It comes down to finding a hard formula to get you in the ball park and then personal experience to fine tune it.
Once you know what your time is then you can apply your hourly rate.
We all have a rate that we would like to get, a rate that we think we need to get and then there is a third rate, based on your business plan and analysis that you absolutely must get.
It is that third rate that you really need to hone in on, figure out and deviate as little as possible from. TCIA has a neat little booklet on how to figure it out. (from personal experience it that particular book is confusing and a nightmare. But once you figure it out it is priceless information.)
This all should be broken down in to man-hours
Then, if this nightmare is not enough, you need to determine whether the market will handle your rate. We have found that given our season, our expenses, payroll and profit needs required that we charge $XYZ per man hour.
We knew from past experience that we could sell nearly all our bids at 66% of the $XYZ rate and less than half the bids at 75% of the $XYZ rate and less than 10% of the bids at the $XYZ rate.
How did we find this out? over the years, before analysis we tried it all and kept track of what worked.
Your hourly rate will sell the right percentage of bids if it matches the need of your
Since the rate we MUST get was outside what our market would handle, we had to review our rate calculations to adjust it downward. This included cutting budgets, refinancing and postponing capital expenditures. Your personal company situation WILL BE DIFFERENT
You may find that you have to make your company a little more lean and trim. On the other hand, you may find that your MUST HAVE rate is so low that you can sell everything you bid. If that is the case then you can market yourself as the lowest price around and sell even more! Then again, you might find that your MUST have is too low for the market and need to up it(with incresed profits ) to stay just under the market and still sell as the low price!
So now, you have your estimated time, in man hours, which should include your dumping times and multiply that by your man-hour rate (the third one) Add your dumping, permit, rental and other fees and BINGO you have your bid.
Since the man-hour rate is calculated based on your costs, payroll and profit needs you can also know how flexible you can be + or - on that rate (usually fairly tight) Your bids will be more consistent across the board.
No more Mrs Smith saying "well you did Mr. Jones tree for $300 less than mine yet his was half the size of mine and his was harder to get to!"
Also in coming up with your man-hour rate you will discover how many man hours you need to sell to meet expenses (break even) It will also tell you how many man-hours you will need to schedule and pay your people for.
I suspect that you will find that as much as you try to lock in a firm formula, it will only get you there part way. Granted it will be a good foundation to work from, but your expertise as an estimator will play a huge role and out of necessity will need to improve every day.
For the longest time we have been bidding larger jobs by the tree and losing jobs because it just seemed to be adding up to too much.
Now we are finding that if we bid using a day rate (based on rate #3) for the larger jobs (meaning we cover daily expenses, payroll and owners payroll for the day) We are now selling more larger jobs
Anyhow, long winded reply but hopefully helpful.
If you want I can post a copy of the "bidding grid" we use that you can play with. Just let me know if you want to see it.
We have been using a chart that helps us approximate the time. Sometimes the final numbers looks right...Yeah the chart says that Pinus strobus will take 5 hours from take down to final shovel of needles into the truck. Sometimes it says 3 hours but we all know from past experience that that particular tree in NFW will be finished in less than 9.
It comes down to finding a hard formula to get you in the ball park and then personal experience to fine tune it.
Once you know what your time is then you can apply your hourly rate.
We all have a rate that we would like to get, a rate that we think we need to get and then there is a third rate, based on your business plan and analysis that you absolutely must get.
It is that third rate that you really need to hone in on, figure out and deviate as little as possible from. TCIA has a neat little booklet on how to figure it out. (from personal experience it that particular book is confusing and a nightmare. But once you figure it out it is priceless information.)
This all should be broken down in to man-hours
Then, if this nightmare is not enough, you need to determine whether the market will handle your rate. We have found that given our season, our expenses, payroll and profit needs required that we charge $XYZ per man hour.
We knew from past experience that we could sell nearly all our bids at 66% of the $XYZ rate and less than half the bids at 75% of the $XYZ rate and less than 10% of the bids at the $XYZ rate.
How did we find this out? over the years, before analysis we tried it all and kept track of what worked.
Your hourly rate will sell the right percentage of bids if it matches the need of your
- market: The BruteForce&Ingnorance Lot clearing market only pays so much. The FinesseEstatePruning market tends to pay more.
- Client Demographicseople making $20k per year and living on rented property have a lower price threshold. People making $200k per year have a higher one. Retirees hang on to thier money tightly, Up-and-Comers more likely to invest in your work
- Local Economy: No money coming in, less money going out
Since the rate we MUST get was outside what our market would handle, we had to review our rate calculations to adjust it downward. This included cutting budgets, refinancing and postponing capital expenditures. Your personal company situation WILL BE DIFFERENT
You may find that you have to make your company a little more lean and trim. On the other hand, you may find that your MUST HAVE rate is so low that you can sell everything you bid. If that is the case then you can market yourself as the lowest price around and sell even more! Then again, you might find that your MUST have is too low for the market and need to up it(with incresed profits
) to stay just under the market and still sell as the low price!So now, you have your estimated time, in man hours, which should include your dumping times and multiply that by your man-hour rate (the third one) Add your dumping, permit, rental and other fees and BINGO you have your bid.
Since the man-hour rate is calculated based on your costs, payroll and profit needs you can also know how flexible you can be + or - on that rate (usually fairly tight) Your bids will be more consistent across the board.
No more Mrs Smith saying "well you did Mr. Jones tree for $300 less than mine yet his was half the size of mine and his was harder to get to!"
Also in coming up with your man-hour rate you will discover how many man hours you need to sell to meet expenses (break even) It will also tell you how many man-hours you will need to schedule and pay your people for.
I suspect that you will find that as much as you try to lock in a firm formula, it will only get you there part way. Granted it will be a good foundation to work from, but your expertise as an estimator will play a huge role and out of necessity will need to improve every day.
For the longest time we have been bidding larger jobs by the tree and losing jobs because it just seemed to be adding up to too much.
Now we are finding that if we bid using a day rate (based on rate #3) for the larger jobs (meaning we cover daily expenses, payroll and owners payroll for the day) We are now selling more larger jobs
Anyhow, long winded reply but hopefully helpful.
If you want I can post a copy of the "bidding grid" we use that you can play with. Just let me know if you want to see it.
03treegrunt11
ArboristSite Lurker
Rick,
I'd like to check out the grid. Thanks
I'd like to check out the grid. Thanks
treesurgeon
ArboristSite Operative
price formula
i like to start with, "how much u got"
and then when that does not work,
depending on the job and what we are doing, i set up prices for bucket work, climbing, groundies, chipping crew. each person on the job is expected to produce a certain amount of work. every job title is priced and its multiplied by man-hours.
example,
bucket work=150 hr.
climber =100 hour
ground worker=60 hr.
chipping crew= 75hr per person min.2, if we are only chipping.
if you break down what you are charging now and figure your prices, in the future you should be able to estimate better based on the job and how much time it takes.
i like to start with, "how much u got"
and then when that does not work,
depending on the job and what we are doing, i set up prices for bucket work, climbing, groundies, chipping crew. each person on the job is expected to produce a certain amount of work. every job title is priced and its multiplied by man-hours.
example,
bucket work=150 hr.
climber =100 hour
ground worker=60 hr.
chipping crew= 75hr per person min.2, if we are only chipping.
if you break down what you are charging now and figure your prices, in the future you should be able to estimate better based on the job and how much time it takes.
rfwoodvt
ArboristSite Operative
Sorry 'bout that Scott...here it is:
Basically we bid 3 parts to our jobs, arbo, brush disposal and wood disposal.
We use the grid to figure how many minutes for each part then decide what is concurrent work (like chipping some during the arbo work) and group that together.
We try to include chipping/handling in the arbo category and the actual disposal costs in thier categories.
Sometimes loading can also be done concurrent with the climbing/takedown so you need to consider that too.
Basically we use this as a tool, not a die hard formula or anything.
Hope it helps!
Basically we bid 3 parts to our jobs, arbo, brush disposal and wood disposal.
We use the grid to figure how many minutes for each part then decide what is concurrent work (like chipping some during the arbo work) and group that together.
We try to include chipping/handling in the arbo category and the actual disposal costs in thier categories.
Sometimes loading can also be done concurrent with the climbing/takedown so you need to consider that too.
Basically we use this as a tool, not a die hard formula or anything.
Hope it helps!
Mitchell
ArboristSite Operative
looks like it is well thought out
THanks Rick
I will try to use it. As I am only two years into the bidding game I need a few objective crutches. I tend to walk up and within a few seconds I get a number in my head. Needless to say I have been way off a few times early on. I like your idea of tracking the data for reference or training an estimater down the road.
Cheers
Scott
THanks Rick
I will try to use it. As I am only two years into the bidding game I need a few objective crutches. I tend to walk up and within a few seconds I get a number in my head. Needless to say I have been way off a few times early on. I like your idea of tracking the data for reference or training an estimater down the road.
Cheers
Scott
outdoor images
ArboristSite Lurker
no real science just what the market wil stand but i try to base it on what my crew can do in an hour and then try to see how long it will take them to do it and if i rent a piece of eqwipment to do it faster will it justify the cost ive been burnt a couple of times but just suck it up and do it learn for next time
