Realistic expectations of a chainsaw?

[Slamm]

I simply hate the EPA

simply hate it

I like how slight modifications to the strato saws that appear to be a result of EPA requirements out produce the older models, same for same. Not sure if EPA gets the credit for that or not, but they were there in the mix.

Sam

 

[sunfish]

562xp

Well, I'll not condemn the new saw until I get my hands on one.

According to the fish scales, it's lighter than the 357 it is to replace. Wrong direction?

It may also hold more fluid and had a heavy bar? Just sayin...

Now to the 555, the counter part to the twisted sister. I handled one at the dealer awhile back and it was the lightest 60cc saw I've picked up, or so it felt like it. Noticeably lighter, slimmer and smaller than the 60cc saw from the other brand. And lighter than the 357xp.

When my dealer gets the 562 in stock (may already be there), I'll compare it to the 555 and buy the one that feels best to me....

 

[sawinredneck]

The classification should be in how much work can be performed for the weight of the saw. I don't know, but for the little run time I had on the slightly modified 261 I ran, it was getting into or was into the 361 range (its be a long time since I ran a stock 361, so my gauge is off on that I'm sure), but the 261 for its heavier weight will completely out perform a 260, in power and much less fuel consumption, this is very important, as there are few that need to one hand the 261 all day. I personally find that for all day, sun up to sun down cutting with 30 minutes off for lunch, the weight of a saw isn't a problem until you get into the 90cc range, then weight differences of say 1 pound become more noticeable.

For instance, in the 70-80cc range you have lighter 440/372's and heavier 460/576AT's and some in the middle of the 1 pound of wieght range, yet it make little difference for all day work, yet many on this site that will complain the loudest about a few ounces are the ones that use the saws the least, LOL.

Indianspring's workers are a fine example of a heavier but more efficient 261 being the saw of choice for all day cutting of firewood in a professional setting, the 346 is lighter ...... and still nobody wants to run it, and his workers that don't have an axe to grind (Stihl vs Husky), they just need a tool that gets the job done, naturally a good worker will gravitate toward the tool that most assists a guy/gal in getting that work done quickly, efficiently and comfortably.

I have found that the choice of a saw in the difference CC brackets is best chosen based on the potential work that can be performed within a synergistic design or grouping of parts, and not so much dependant on a couple of seconds faster in the cookie cutting times or being lighter or heavier by a few ounces or sideways balance or other such statistics that make a good showing in writing or on charts or short videos, but don't quite add up enough to offset other detriments or holes in the efficiency bracket when it comes to real world cutting.

Sam

Great points Sam! I hardly run my 350 any more, it's delegated to back saw most of the time, I grab the 5100 now. More power, faster cuts, even with more weight, the ability to easily pull a 20" bar in hardwood more than makes up for that weight difference!
Just so everyone understands, if they don't already know, I am not brand loyal at all! I'm not picking on any one saw, or brand, I'm making generalizations about this and just using specific examples to make my point, not trying to trash the saws.

 

[Chris-PA]

The classification should be in how much work can be performed for the weight of the saw. I don't know, but for the little run time I had on the slightly modified 261 I ran, it was getting into or was into the 361 range (its be a long time since I ran a stock 361, so my gauge is off on that I'm sure), but the 261 for its heavier weight will completely out perform a 260, in power and much less fuel consumption, this is very important, as there are few that need to one hand the 261 all day. I personally find that for all day, sun up to sun down cutting with 30 minutes off for lunch, the weight of a saw isn't a problem until you get into the 90cc range, then weight differences of say 1 pound become more noticeable.

For instance, in the 70-80cc range you have lighter 440/372's and heavier 460/576AT's and some in the middle of the 1 pound of wieght range, yet it make little difference for all day work, yet many on this site that will complain the loudest about a few ounces are the ones that use the saws the least, LOL.

Indianspring's workers are a fine example of a heavier but more efficient 261 being the saw of choice for all day cutting of firewood in a professional setting, the 346 is lighter ...... and still nobody wants to run it, and his workers that don't have an axe to grind (Stihl vs Husky), they just need a tool that gets the job done, naturally a good worker will gravitate toward the tool that most assists a guy/gal in getting that work done quickly, efficiently and comfortably.

I have found that the choice of a saw in the difference CC brackets is best chosen based on the potential work that can be performed within a synergistic design or grouping of parts, and not so much dependant on a couple of seconds faster in the cookie cutting times or being lighter or heavier by a few ounces or sideways balance or other such statistics that make a good showing in writing or on charts or short videos, but don't quite add up enough to offset other detriments or holes in the efficiency bracket when it comes to real world cutting.

Sam

I like that analysis. This is an enthusiast site, and just like all such groups folks like to pick through specs and decide which is the "best". But it seems the only criteria people use to evaluate a saw design is weight and peak power. Nobody considers fuel use, or price, or more subjective things such as how it feels. I think that in real world use a lot of this is hair-splitting and much of it doesn't matter.

As for me, I'm happy to see some innovation in these engines. 2-strokes puking 25% of the air/fuel mix out the exhaust isn't anything to be proud of - what a waste. If the new rules prompted them to spend some development effort on making an improved engine design that doesn't waste so much fuel or pollute so much, then I say it's about time. I like clean air. I honestly don't care if it added a little to the weight (though I don't see why it needs to), or reduces the peak HP a bit (although I'm not sure it does). I'd consider that a decent trade off for less fuel waste and pollution and I'd pick the cleaner burning, more efficient engine design every time.

My cheap Poulan Pro pole saw is a strato engine. It works great, and it does the job it was intended to do.

 

[TK]

Personally I don't understand the need for that saw (if you look at the line-up). I even told my dealer this.
Needed a 60cc Pro saw?
Might be the new model design creeping in! Just like the T 435. But what will it replace? Its all sales and competion generated.
If sales are low on a certain model they AX it just like they have w/ 2 of my saws now. If that thing replaces the 357 which it looks like it has a chance, I'll be upset!!!!!

It already has replaced the 357, what's in stock now is all that's left of the 357.

Well, I'll not condemn the new saw until I get my hands on one.

According to the fish scales, it's lighter than the 357 it is to replace. Wrong direction?

It may also hold more fluid and had a heavy bar? Just sayin...

Now to the 555, the counter part to the twisted sister. I handled one at the dealer awhile back and it was the lightest 60cc saw I've picked up, or so it felt like it. Noticeably lighter, slimmer and smaller than the 60cc saw from the other brand. And lighter than the 357xp.

When my dealer gets the 562 in stock (may already be there), I'll compare it to the 555 and buy the one that feels best to me....

It may look a little foolish, but I recommend this.

Wear a blindfold. Have somebody put the saws in your hands. Honestly tell me if you can tell the difference between the two







Something can only be so strong before it just needs to be bigger. Bet your butt that we'd have saws that were lighter in weight and more powerful if they were still building on conventional saw standards with today's technology. Look at a strato cylinder next to an older style. Just has to be heavier in design. While they've compromised everywhere else to offset that - there has to be a limit on how far they can go before it's not strong enough.

 

[tbow388]

There's been so much hype on it, you won't see a bad word about it, pulling a 28" bar, read that one, come on, hell their is a video than has a 028 pulling a 32" bar.

I want to see that video.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

They're chainsaws. They cut wood.


They are meant to make ya breakfast.


Stick to that, take care of'em, and you'll even be impressed by the smallest most cheaply made Poulan on the shelf that Lowes has to offer.

 

[sawinredneck]

[video=youtube;dLBA7soWugk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBA7soWugk[/video]

[video=youtube;0TpbpUWTyhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TpbpUWTyhw[/video]

 

[dingeryote]

[video=youtube;dLBA7soWugk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBA7soWugk[/video]

[video=youtube;0TpbpUWTyhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TpbpUWTyhw[/video]

hmmm....listening to that 562, it dosn't seem like it's having much of an issue.

Granted, he's not dogging in and leaning on it either.

It might be a good idea to wait and run one in real time, to decide.

Weight on a scale is one thing, and another completely in the hands. The old MS260 always feels 2lbs lighter than a 346 to me, and darn if a 441 dosn't feel a LOT heavier than it is, compared to a 372 or 440.

I'm all about saving my back these days, and a lb does add up quicker if it's placed wrong.
Just do some limbing with a 455 for an hour and then switch to a 372. Heavier isn't always heavier.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[sunfish]

And the difference in those vids, is the guy runnin the 028 knows what he's doin. :msp_wink:

 

[Terry Syd]

I've got no problem with upper body strength. In fact, that's probably a contributing factor to my back problem, I can lift or curl too much weight for my back. A chainsaw held out in front of me isn't a problem with my arms, it's my bloody back trying to keep everything stable. Hell, my back is hurting right now as I sit in front of the computer typing this message.

I ain't completely worn out yet - and there's still the possibilty of getting 're-treads' like knee replacements. If I pace myself a bit, I should still be cutting in another 10 years.

Bigger saws, just like bigger guns, is just too punishing on the old body. Which reminds me, I need to unload some cartridges.

 

[sawinredneck]

So the consensus is to blame the EPA for the weight then?
I call hogwash on that! This isn't something that was suddenly dropped on manufactures, they've had years to work on, design and improve this technology!

 

[Hedgerow]

And the difference in those vids, is the guy runnin the 028 knows what he's doin. :msp_wink:

Nobody best be baggin on my poor ole' 028!!! It's paid it's dues!!! And was workin' it's ass off pullin that big ole bar...
:waaaht:

 

[jropo]

I haven't done this, but don't see how it couldn't work. Pick up some wrist weights and start wearing them a lot while doing other than firewooding. When you go to pick up a saw, take them off.

I used to do that when I was a teen. For track, BMX Racing, Fighting, Basketball, I'm 5'8 was 130# and could touch a 10' rim. Also spent alot if time making whirlpools in the pool w/ them on. Every were and everything I did I had leg weights on!
Got my car, picked up a half dozen bad habbits and left all that behind. Now I'm paying for it all, bunch of injurys that didn't heal well and arhritous.
Just going for a walk I think would help me get some wind back.

 

[teatersroad]

Shave your knuckles and take a giant dump before picking up a saw. Balance is more important than weight,who want's a ten pound saw that handles like nunchucks.

 

[jropo]

I've got no problem with upper body strength. In fact, that's probably a contributing factor to my back problem, I can lift or curl too much weight for my back. A chainsaw held out in front of me isn't a problem with my arms, it's my bloody back trying to keep everything stable. Hell, my back is hurting right now as I sit in front of the computer typing this message.

I ain't completely worn out yet - and there's still the possibilty of getting 're-treads' like knee replacements. If I pace myself a bit, I should still be cutting in another 10 years.

Bigger saws, just like bigger guns, is just too punishing on the old body. Which reminds me, I need to unload some cartridges.

I here ya! I have a torn muscle in my back (the one that holds everything togather) I'd rather left my 800# snowmobile of its stand, then bend over and tie my shoe! Matter of fact I can't. USE YOU LEGS when lifting!!!!

 

[sunfish]

Nobody best be baggin on my poor ole' 028!!! It's paid it's dues!!! And was workin' it's ass off pullin that big ole bar...
:waaaht:

I think it's pullin a 28" bar just fine. :msp_w00t: :msp_biggrin:

 

[mowoodchopper]

I've been following the debate myself and thought a 560 could be what I need for all around work. However, I picked up a 555 at the shop and was surprised at the weight. At age 64 and a crook back (and wrist, and knees) I just don't need that extra weight.

I've got a 10.8lb modded Husky 450 with a NK bar that is my go-to saw. Sometimes I'm so winded I am ready to drop after an hour of cutting in the woods, however I can still move around and control that little saw safely. The 365BB and bar wears me down a lot quicker and is only brought out for the big stuff.

Getting old sucks, I figure I am going to stick with my present two saw plan.

A modded 550 (again at 10.8lbs) may be in the future when and if the 450 gives up.

450 is a dang good saw, loved mine, And for the price I would take them over the 346 any day, xp saws are more hype than truth imo
they are good saws but not worth what the cost new, when you can by a non xp for half the money

 

[mowoodchopper]

Gotta say one more thing! More to the point of this thread, LOL Yes I think we do expect to much of our saws, and most of it is because of internet bs, reading how much better and lighter the other guys saw is, or how bad the one you have is. I have had more damn saws in the last 5 yrs than I need foe five lifetimes, all because Im always looking for something better and faster, and you know what its a BS, I have not found a saw yet that I cant bog out!. The first new saws I ever bought were a 350 husky, and a 6400 dolmar, and you know what those to saws would have done everything I ever had to do!! At least for cutting firewood, in the bucket i need a top handle yes, and 6400 is not great on big stumps but If i took my time it would do the job. Hell for the last 2 times I have cut firewood, the only saw I started was a 2150 i gave under 200 bucks for. Yet I have thousands in saws and have had every dang hot rod out there , its ridiculous we should be ashamed of our selves. I am!


One more thing the thing with big bars, its bs to, My dad cut all of our wood with a 10-10 16 inch bar, and i remember some big oak trees.

 

[Terry Syd]

450 is a dang good saw, loved mine, And for the price I would take them over the 346 any day, xp saws are more hype than truth imo
they are good saws but not worth what the cost new, when you can by a non xp for half the money

You should see what they can do if properly modded. It's a strato that I have re-worked entirely, the transfers look like the present Husky 560s. I have no doubt it would smoke a 346, it will stay with my mate's 365 in big Aussie hardwood. It runs a 18" NK bar with an 8 pin. It's what the factories should be producing - a 10.8lb 60cc saw with a lightweight bar.