Realistic expectations of a chainsaw?

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Gotta say one more thing! More to the point of this thread, LOL Yes I think we do expect to much of our saws, and most of it is because of internet bs, reading how much better and lighter the other guys saw is, or how bad the one you have is. I have had more damn saws in the last 5 yrs than I need foe five lifetimes, all because Im always looking for something better and faster, and you know what its a BS, I have not found a saw yet that I cant bog out!. The first new saws I ever bought were a 350 husky, and a 6400 dolmar, and you know what those to saws would have done everything I ever had to do!! At least for cutting firewood, in the bucket i need a top handle yes, and 6400 is not great on big stumps but If i took my time it would do the job. Hell for the last 2 times I have cut firewood, the only saw I started was a 2150 i gave under 200 bucks for. Yet I have thousands in saws and have had every dang hot rod out there , its ridiculous we should be ashamed of our selves. I am!


One more thing the thing with big bars, its bs to, My dad cut all of our wood with a 10-10 16 inch bar, and i remember some big oak trees.

Your right!

There is a guy around that logs around here that uses what ever he can find. Same w/ a tree sevice guy I know. Last time i seen them logger was using the Craftsman version of a 3400 and a Homy xl. And the tree guy was using a off the shelf Mac. that the oiler didn't work on. Got the job done.

XL
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3400
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The log that smash them both!!!! Threw them away. When he needs a saw he'll find another, or some one to run one for him.


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My thing is it takes me so long to load my wood I feel I need to cut fast. Now that I'm 2 years ahead I'm tring to get my Ol' duffers going so I can aleast go out and spend a day in the woods! I payed for all of my XP's in the first 3mo.'s of lighting the stove!!!
 
450 is a dang good saw, loved mine, And for the price I would take them over the 346 any day, xp saws are more hype than truth imo
they are good saws but not worth what the cost new, when you can by a non xp for half the money

While it's true that you may be able to find a new non-xp for half the price , they're only half as much fun to operate ! I'm a fun loving person , I'll stick to the xp's . Lesser saws just don't compare . More hype than truth ??? Get real . Xp's scream , and run forever , 'nuff said :rock:
 
450 is a dang good saw, loved mine, And for the price I would take them over the 346 any day, xp saws are more hype than truth imo
they are good saws but not worth what the cost new, when you can by a non xp for half the money

I have to disagree man. Some XP saws may be hype, but some are just friggen awesome. Like a 372xpw, 390xp. Both of those saws are well worth the money IMO. Some of the newer xp's I'm not sold on yet though. :msp_wink:
 
I have to disagree man. Some XP saws may be hype, but some are just friggen awesome. Like a 372xpw, 390xp. Both of those saws are well worth the money IMO. Some of the newer xp's I'm not sold on yet though. :msp_wink:

agree the big xp s are good saws , but they are in line as far as price with what a big saw cost xp or not
 
While it's true that you may be able to find a new non-xp for half the price , they're only half as much fun to operate ! I'm a fun loving person , I'll stick to the xp's . Lesser saws just don't compare . More hype than truth ??? Get real . Xp's scream , and run forever , 'nuff said :rock:

Disagree, 346,XP has never impressed me, the 350, and 450 greatly impressed me, for 300-400, the 346 and 357, for 500-700 have never showed me anything the cheaper saws didnt, except how good huskys sales pitch is. 346 is the most overated saw built in my op, and I have owned 2 of them, and used them both on the job, I have yet to run a 346 that had the power a 5100s did.

And on top of that have yet to do anything with the 346 a 350 couldnt do just a HAIR slower and alot cheaper
 
There is too much talk of specs and too little time running the darn saw - if this thing holds together good my 262's are gone

chandler
 
346,XP has never impressed me... never showed me anything the cheaper saws didnt, except how good huskys sales pitch is. 346 is the most overated saw built in my op, and I have owned 2 of them, and used them both on the job, I have yet to run a 346 that had the power a 5100s did.

Oh my but our Norwegian friend is not going to like you saying this. :msp_wink:
Husky Canada thinks they're worth an absurd amount of money but I've kind of figured that these are not so much better than everything else. A very good saw for sure, but then so are a lot of others.
 
Oh my but our Norwegian friend is not going to like you saying this. :msp_wink:
Husky Canada thinks they're worth an absurd amount of money but I've kind of figured that these are not so much better than everything else. A very good saw for sure, but then so are a lot of others.

that 6800 you have is one of the best
 
So the consensus is to blame the EPA for the weight then?
I call hogwash on that! This isn't something that was suddenly dropped on manufactures, they've had years to work on, design and improve this technology!

I agree. There is so much, cost effective, weight saving, space age type materials out there to lower a saw's weight it's not funny.
Unfortunately though you need an appropriately weighted powerhead to match the bar length the saw is designed for otherwise the balance will be crap. I mean who wants a titanium and carbon fibre MS660 that is nose heavy with a 20" bar :)

I do...
 
I do, I'll put a lump of lead off the back for balance if I think it needs it.

Screw that! Beer holder would work better, as it could be adjusted for perfect balance instantly, and for whatever angle was desired.

Sheesh! I have seen how slow bucking cuts go on the Oz hardwoods, and you guys are always holding the saw at an angle of some sort with plenty of time for micro-adjustments.
Where's that Aussie innovation spirit?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote
 
There really shouldn't be any confusion. The 60cc class has always been, and likely always will be, the realm of arborists, farmers/ranchers and firewood getters. A wild thing isn't gonna do it for these guys, nor will they need a 70cc saw most of the time. And most of them want something of quality that will last. They often can write off a bit of it on taxes/equipment expenditures, so will give a bit more than a homeowner's saw usually goes for. A quality 60cc saw OTD is usually in the 500-600$ range. I've already seen the 562xps in the high 600's, and it's only just out. It is difficult to get a 70cc pro saw for less than $800.

As for weight, it all depends. A 361 is 12lbs 12 ounces on Neal's scale. A 262xp is 13lbs 2 ounces. Has anyone placed a 562 on a scale yet? Mitch? When you gonna weigh that 555?
In any case, these are at least 2lbs less than the lightest 70cc saws actual weights. In another thread, a fully loaded 361 VS a fully loaded 372xp is a difference of 2.5 lbs with the same B&C. So, let's say yer a farmer, ya got some scrilla and ya wanna bust out proper for the trees chillin in your hood, you lift a 372xt and then a 555, both will have a bar on them in the shop(the 372 most likely having a longer bar on it maybe adding as much as another 1.5lbs+ coz that's how it rollls, yo), and ya think, "$250 less and it weighs a few pounds less and has the power of a 60cc saw" and then the salesman immediately agrees and starts the tab because you forgot to use your inside voice again. It's almost a no brainer, really. I can see the old ranch owner I did most my work with in Oregon thinking that exact thing, because that is how they thought when they purchased their saws previously. "That saw is for loggers - I'm not a logger" is one of the quotes I recall. Of course, the work I ended up doing for them put my ported 385XP to the test on occasion. But that is how they looked at it.

The most popular saw I ran in to in England was a 60cc class saw. But, then again, I did see a couple 70cc saws wearing 18" bars...

Then there's this: If you build it, they will come. Something I find is that when you have a large saw, the large saw work comes your way. So those of us that work at it professionally may be confused by a 60cc as well. Well, until you do some arborist work. I found myself in the middle of Rhododendron, apple, cherry, and mulberry trees etc etc on occasion in England. I couldn't wave my 385xp with a 24" bar around in them. I switched to an Echo CS-520 or an MS261. Both of those saws can easily be replaced with a 562xp and a 16-18" bar. Even if you are not an arborist, do you REALLY wanna spend $800-900 on a saw to pull an 18" bar for work? Nah, I don't - at least not without it being ported to within an inch of it's life. And if you are an arborist, you sure as hell don't, either.

As for lightweight materials - they already use Magnesium, which isn't nearly as cheap as aluminum is. At least in pro saws, they do. Looking at what a 372Xp can do, I am quite impressed they can charge so little in this country for it. I assume the profit margins are relatively shallow on many models. Where can you save weight on a saw? The flywheel has to weigh what it does. Same with the clutch. You could use titanium in some areas, but this makes Magnesium look dirt cheap. I think Titanium is heavier than magnesium, anyways. So where else can ya save weight? The plastics? Your choices there are carbon fiber or very thin fiberglass. Fiberglass isn't gonna happen. But what's not gonna happen more is carbon fiber. When you make tubes with carbon fiber, you can actually use machines to do the work because it is simply wrapping it. Even so, carbon fiber tubes are not cheap. Now when it comes to a compound surface, it has to be hand laid. Even if they made it in china(where the plastics can be made, too), it would raise the costs and lower the reliability and increase the failure rate. A scratch on plastic makes it look used. A scratch on carbon causes serious structural integrity issues and fraying. Kevlar? It also costs quite a bit as well, sometimes twice as much as carbon fiber rolls. I dunno if it would be any lighter, I dunno how big an ounce of kevlar laminate is.

If you ask me, the major weight savings for chainsaws in the foreseeable future is in the bars.
 
Gotta say one more thing! More to the point of this thread, LOL Yes I think we do expect to much of our saws, and most of it is because of internet bs, reading how much better and lighter the other guys saw is, or how bad the one you have is. I have had more damn saws in the last 5 yrs than I need foe five lifetimes, all because Im always looking for something better and faster, and you know what its a BS, I have not found a saw yet that I cant bog out!. The first new saws I ever bought were a 350 husky, and a 6400 dolmar, and you know what those to saws would have done everything I ever had to do!! At least for cutting firewood, in the bucket i need a top handle yes, and 6400 is not great on big stumps but If i took my time it would do the job. Hell for the last 2 times I have cut firewood, the only saw I started was a 2150 i gave under 200 bucks for. Yet I have thousands in saws and have had every dang hot rod out there , its ridiculous we should be ashamed of our selves. I am!


One more thing the thing with big bars, its bs to, My dad cut all of our wood with a 10-10 16 inch bar, and i remember some big oak trees.
We used( my father and 3 brothers) a Mac 10-10 for years with the same 16" bar. Cut more wood than you would believe!!
 
Well i think we all like what saw feels the best to us as individuals. Because we're all different, it doesn't matter if it's a mini mac or a 2 man v8 saw . When the chips fall it all boils down to what feels good in your hand / on your back . And gets your job done. As ya'll can see i'm not really a brand kind of guy, I just got what i thought i needed at the time,and what i perceived as a decent deal ,i kinda view saws like tools ,one can't do everything efficiently. And in this day and age, efficiency / time is valuable. But, I am not an arborist ,or a pro feller i'm just a firewood guy. Yea i could get by with 1 saw of any type. Shoot I could probably get by with an axe. But hey whats the fun in that . But that new saw smell is great and starting to overtake me. But i can't for the life of me ,get rid of my older saws ,we been through so much ,they are like family, actually i think more of my saws than some of my family. Ha Ha . Just my opinion . Termite
 
Looking at what a 372Xp can do, I am quite impressed they can charge so little in this country for it.

Don't worry mate, they get their money back in other countries :D

I assume the profit margins are relatively shallow on many models. Where can you save weight on a saw? The flywheel has to weigh what it does. Same with the clutch. You could use titanium in some areas, but this makes Magnesium look dirt cheap. I think Titanium is heavier than magnesium, anyways. So where else can ya save weight? The plastics? Your choices there are carbon fiber or very thin fiberglass. Fiberglass isn't gonna happen. But what's not gonna happen more is carbon fiber. When you make tubes with carbon fiber, you can actually use machines to do the work because it is simply wrapping it. Even so, carbon fiber tubes are not cheap. Now when it comes to a compound surface, it has to be hand laid. Even if they made it in china(where the plastics can be made, too), it would raise the costs and lower the reliability and increase the failure rate. A scratch on plastic makes it look used. A scratch on carbon causes serious structural integrity issues and fraying. Kevlar? It also costs quite a bit as well, sometimes twice as much as carbon fiber rolls. I dunno if it would be any lighter, I dunno how big an ounce of kevlar laminate is.

If you ask me, the major weight savings for chainsaws in the foreseeable future is in the bars.

You're right mate. If my memory serves me correctly Titanium is about twice as heavy as Aluminium or Magnesium. Carbon fibre generally doesn't wear well either. I really do think though that a lot of parts on saws are actually overengineered. Not a bad thing but not entirely necessary either. I'm no engineer but I'd think you'd need a lot less titanium than magnesium to get a similar strength - maybe not half but. The cost of a saw built by NASA though would be prohibitive unfortunately :cheers:
I agree on the bars too. Overall balance is the most important thing though. I think you've commented on this before too but even though my 390XP's are heavier than my Dolmar 7900's I can throw either around all day with a 32" bar and be none the worse for wear with the Husky. A poorly balanced 60cc saw is far more tiring than a well balanced 80-90cc saw.
 
Titanium would help on the exhaust, bars, handlebars, mounting bolts, bar studs(mebbe) - basically replace steel with it to save weight. Titanium can only be hardened to somewhere in the 48Rc range. A chainsaw chain drive link is most likely 3000 series or 4000 series chrome moly, so it would eventually wear the titanium down unless it is nitride coated/anodized. Precipitation hardened Ti is something like 48Rc at best. So that's about as hard as the chain. You want it to be harder to last longer. Ti Nitride is something like 85Rc, but it is a very thin coat(anodized surface hardening). How long does it take before you see a GB Ti bar turn shiny? They supposedly hold up well.

You probably could realistically replace all your bolts, and maybe even the lugs, with Ti bolts for about $200 or so. That may save ya a few ounces. ;)

titanium bolt set | eBay

You could grab some Ti Bike Handlebars and put them to use for the saw. Here's one that is 22" long and 162 grams - so maybe 40 grams less than a 6061 Al bar:

Titec titanium ti MTB XC handlebar 22 inches wide 162 grams! | eBay

You COULD go with carbon fiber on a handle bar. They do not cost more than Titanium. And often cost less. And weigh less. But outside of a homeowners, won't last.

Ti would be lighter than stainless for the exhaust and last longer. And a really cool side effect is it changes colors once you start to use it:

1260494718427991006041.jpg


But Husky already use super thin metal there as it is(I wonder why...). Your chainsaw bar will also turn that color around the leading edges when your oiler stops working.

You could replace the rod with titanium, but Ti is a very poor heat conductor. I dunno if the con rod pulls a lot of heat from the piston to the chassis. Or if it needs to. The poor conductivity of Ti may not require a heat shield/deflector behind the muffler, so would save that tiny bit of weight on some models.

You could maybe use aluminum beryllium(AlBe) pistons or cylinders. But those are silly expensive. They use it in Satellites and refurb-ed some Space Shuttle stuff with it, too. That's also F1 stuff. Actually, it was banned by F1... 'Be' by itself is stunningly expensive to fabricate. Or at least it used to be back when I was looking at it. In particle form, it is hazardous to your health. Here is an AlBe quote from an F1 site:

"A typical commercially available aluminium-beryllium alloy has a specific stiffness 250% greater than a good piston alloy, and 44% greater thermal conductivity."

So there ya go. Might as well make the handlebar from that, too. Oh, and your chainsaw bar.

It's 3:30AM! I am gonna go have a smoke and some bourbon.
 
Many of the screws on saws are threaded into PLASTIC components. Obviously, the tensile strength of the screws is not a problem, its whether the screws will rip out the plastic. Those screws could easily be replaced by high quality aluminum screws. Homeowner saws with plastic crankcases would only need a few high tensile bolts for such things as holding the cylinder down.
 
if back is cramping try running 28 inch bar on the 50cc saw ,most in here will think im nuts for a bar that long on a 026,but as long as you stick to 50cc wood ,in my opinion 12 inch and under it pulls just fine ,you just dont have to arch over to reach the log so much ,i put a oregon light bar on my 026 couple weeks ago so could stand up when bucking small stuff and limbing ,worked just fine ,if need more speed grab the 70cc ,and the light bar seems as balanced as my stihl 20 inch es that was on there
 

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