Really Big and Crappy Takedown, Ideas?

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computeruser

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Ok, this maple broke earlier this year and I really need to work on getting it down. The branch that is intact shouldn't be too bad to put where I want it, between ropes, a vehicle to pull with, and some judicious cutting. The broken leader is NOT leaning on this branch and only has a few 3" branches touching towards the top.

Now the broken leader, that's the one I'm not sure about. It needs to either be dropped in a 25foot wide area parallel to the fence, or swung ninety degrees so it falls perpendicular to the fence, because anything shy of 90 degrees will cause substantial property damage. The 90 degree idea seems darned-near impossible, and the parallel to the fence plan seems challenging.

Any thoughts on how to get this thing down? Any suggestions on how to deal with the absence of any good place (with a reasoanble height) to cut anything remotely like a hinge on the broken leader?

Picture #1:
July20_Cemetery_06a.jpg


Picture #2:
July20_Cemetery_07a.jpg
 
You do any climbing?

Piece the left lead down roping it off the right one.

Here's a crazy idea. Climb the right lead up to where the two leads are closest together. Run a cable with a choker around both leads and tighten as much as possible. Now two options. Either crash the left into the right then cut the right after taking barber chair precautions. Or else just notch and cut it at fence level pulling on the cable to bring both over. The idea is to attach the broken lead to the good lead then drop the whole tree.

Sorry, just the thinking of a crazy treeman.
 
trim a few branches to clear the building, and then go for the parallel to the fence option. Take your time with the notch and don't cut through your hinge. Have fun!
 
This might sound ignorant but,ive thrown a rope thru a decent crotch then used a ladder and tied it off.Then stand on the roof and cut with a stick saw.(no not a manual one)Made it safe for me an was able to take big chunks at a time.(if neccesary run a tag line to control the pull)Just an idea and looks like it might be possible from what i can see in the pic.(My monitor is very dark on some pics)
Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the input, folks. If only I did climb. One of these days I have to get some gear and some training.

I hadn't thought about getting on the roof of the adjacent building. It is vacant and slated for demolition (compliments of a mercury spill and a fire last year), so I'm sure nobody would mind if I got on it. Or, I suppose, if I bounced the tree off of it, either. Hmmm...
 
split tree

Clean up the area around the base of the tree. You need an escape route in clean shape. Around the split, wrap a rope 5-7 times and tie it into itself. At the first good limb on the split spar, use a throw line, wrap a rope around the tree and pull it up tight gingerly. Take other end over to the good spar and wrap it around the good spar at about the same height once, then off to the truck or winch. You are going to cut this as if it were in good shape and drop the whole tree at one time. I would use a ladder to stand on to tie the split together. Put as little weight on the split spar as you can until you tie the split together. Make sure you have cleaned up your exit route before you begin to cut. You have a mess laying around at the bottom of that tree get it out of there before you start, that includes knocking down the weeds. Get your signals down with the ground guys, what and how you want the guys on the pulling end of the rope to work. Cut a shallow facecut about two feet off the ground facing the way you want the tree to fall, you may or may not want to plunge the face. Plunge cut directly in the back of the tree towards the face to get an idea of how good the holding wood is going to be for the backcut. Cut the backcut on the building side first and then on the escape route side last. If the tree is hollow, nibble a little at a time off the left side of the backcut then a litte off the right side. Repeat until the tree starts to move then signal the ground guys to pull it over.
The reason you tie rope/pull line around the split spar then over to and wrap once around the good spar is so as you tighten up on the rope the bad spar is pulled into the good spar as the tree goes over. Leave very little hinge because you want this to go over as if it were one tree and not two spars. It has a pronounced lean and you can't pull hard without breaking the tree apart. Use a light hinge.
I would use 3/4" rope, a chain or cable to tie/wrap the split and 5/8" or better to pull the tree over. The idea is to have enough good wood for the hinge to work while not having to load the split spar too much causing it to break loose while pulling the tree over. Be prepared, the split spar will move but it should not break loose/snap the rope if you wrap it 5-7 time around the split. When you make the face cut you might want to plunge cut into the facecut to see how much good wood there is to base your hinge on. A plunge in the center of the facecut should not hurt your hinges chacteristics but it will tell you how much wood you can count on when you make the hinge. If you are concerned about loading the split spar too much with the pull line, wrap the line/rope around the good spar twice or more before running the end of the rope to the winch or truck. The friction caused by the extra wraps will load the good spar first (heavy load and split spar less). A couple of suggestions, take a change of clothes. When the split spar moves but doesn't break loose you might need to change the undies. Gently tighten up the pull line. You want it tight (tree still standing) but you don't want to prematurely pull the tree over (catostropic failure), you want the hinge to do it's job and work. These usually fall like a normal tree once you tie them up. You really need to do the plunge cut to see how much wood you have to work with. If you are spooked by there not being a lot of good wood to work with leave a strap of wood on the back of the tree and cut it last. When you do this, cut the strap below the backcut 2"-3" if you want the tree to go over slowly. Do not cut the strap above the backcut as this sometimes pinches the bar/chain and takes the saw out of your hands as it goes over.
If the tree is hollow, cut your facecut as if it weren't. Then behind the facecut about 4"-5" plunge in one side and cut towards the back leaving 4" of wood in the back. Step around to the other side and start from 4"-5" behind the face and cut toward the back leaving wood in the back. Have the guys tighten up the slack in the pull line and then cut the back loose and over it goes. These aren't hard to do they are just spooky, they make these breaking wood noises that cause the faint of heart to load their pants. :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Well, geofore, I hadn't thought of that idea. It might actually work, and solves the issue of controlling and safely cutting the broken spar after the solid one has been removed. I'll have to rewalk the site and take a look at the tree once the leaves are down (which, at the rate things are progressing this fall, could be as early as next week). Still a bit nervous about it, but it I think you've got a

Considering your plan, I think I'd have to cut the chain link fence behind the tree to allow myself good access. And I'll probalby want heavier rope than the 1/2" StableBraid I have, but that's no biggie. For securing the broken spar to itself, do you see any problem with a 10k lb ratchet strap or two, instead of a chain or rope?

Here's the only picture I have right now of the trunk:

July20_Cemetery_08a.jpg


And here's one of the tree and its direction of fall:

July20_Cemetery_02a.jpg
 
My opinion would be to read geofore's post carefully, basically my thoughts too, but here is my redundant 0.02$ worth.
1-Cinch the break 2x, it looks like it doesn't have to be too tight (ya don't want to snap it off prematurely) but you may need whats left (in the break) to help direct the fall (if you just use the branch to pull it off), you will have to use your judgement whether the break will break and not suspend the other branch (not good) try to picture the dynamics of it as you work, dropping as one tree seems wisest but hard to tell from here,
2-Run a good long, strong, pulling rope to the good branch as high as you can get it, run it out a very safe distance,
3-rope the broken branch to the good one with a nice thick piece of cable or rope, doing this in several places assures that it won't swing over inadvertantly into the building when tugging,
4-Fall it in one go but not all the way, cut your face, do a partial back-cut to just before breaking point, then use the pulling rope on a truck or what-have-you to break the hinge, pull it over, and direct the fall, this removes you or the cutter from any potential hazzards in the drop zone.
5-Have lunch.

When you figure out how to do this try to get some pics eh! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

:chainsaw:
 
Last edited:
That IS about the ugliest take-down I've seen. I'm for dropping it whole with a cable. Is it in a cemetary? Yo're goning to want to protect the gravestones; you could put bags of bark chip sor something over them.

Worse take-down: Three large lombardy poplars, killed in a fire, on a fencerow, leaning over a vinyard, multi-trunked, partly hollowed out from the fire, growing in a drainage ditch. Did I say they were big? Biggest was about 6 ft. diameter and 130 ft. Walked (ran) away from that one. I advised the homeowner to hire a logger to fell them using a skidder to winch 'em over, against the lean and into a field.
 
split spar

The ratchet straps will work, use two or three and wrap each strap around the split two or three times. A single wrap is not strong enough to hold the spar together if the split breaks loose while you're working. I would put the ratchet straps on before the cleaning up the mess below the tree if the wind is blowing that day.
 
geofore said:
Clean up the area around the base of the tree. You need an escape route in clean shape.

Around the split, wrap a rope 5-7 times and tie it into itself. At the first good limb on the split spar, use a throw line, wrap a rope around the tree and pull it up tight gingerly. Take other end over to the good spar and wrap it around the good spar at about the same height once, then off to the truck or winch. You are going to cut this as if it were in good shape and drop the whole tree at one time.

I would use a ladder to stand on to tie the split together.

Put as little weight on the split spar as you can until you tie the split together. Make sure you have cleaned up your exit route before you begin to cut. You have a mess laying around at the bottom of that tree get it out of there before you start, that includes knocking down the weeds.

Get your signals down with the ground guys, what and how you want the guys on the pulling end of the rope to work.

Cut a shallow facecut about two feet off the ground facing the way you want the tree to fall, you may or may not want to plunge the face. Plunge cut directly in the back of the tree towards the face to get an idea of how good the holding wood is going to be for the backcut. Cut the backcut on the building side first and then on the escape route side last.

If the tree is hollow, nibble a little at a time off the left side of the backcut then a litte off the right side. Repeat until the tree starts to move then signal the ground guys to pull it over.

The reason you tie rope/pull line around the split spar then over to and wrap once around the good spar is so as you tighten up on the rope the bad spar is pulled into the good spar as the tree goes over.

Leave very little hinge because you want this to go over as if it were one tree and not two spars. It has a pronounced lean and you can't pull hard without breaking the tree apart. Use a light hinge.


I would use 3/4" rope, a chain or cable to tie/wrap the split and 5/8" or better to pull the tree over. The idea is to have enough good wood for the hinge to work while not having to load the split spar too much causing it to break loose while pulling the tree over.

Be prepared, the split spar will move but it should not break loose/snap the rope if you wrap it 5-7 time around the split.

When you make the face cut you might want to plunge cut into the facecut to see how much good wood there is to base your hinge on.

A plunge in the center of the facecut should not hurt your hinges chacteristics but it will tell you how much wood you can count on when you make the hinge. If you are concerned about loading the split spar too much with the pull line, wrap the line/rope around the good spar twice or more before running the end of the rope to the winch or truck. The friction caused by the extra wraps will load the good spar first (heavy load and split spar less).

A couple of suggestions, take a change of clothes. When the split spar moves but doesn't break loose you might need to change the undies. ;)

Gently tighten up the pull line. You want it tight (tree still standing) but you don't want to prematurely pull the tree over (catostropic failure), you want the hinge to do it's job and work. These usually fall like a normal tree once you tie them up. You really need to do the plunge cut to see how much wood you have to work with. If you are spooked by there not being a lot of good wood to work with leave a strap of wood on the back of the tree and cut it last. When you do this, cut the strap below the backcut 2"-3" if you want the tree to go over slowly. Do not cut the strap above the backcut as this sometimes pinches the bar/chain and takes the saw out of your hands as it goes over.


If the tree is hollow, cut your facecut as if it weren't. Then behind the facecut about 4"-5" plunge in one side and cut towards the back leaving 4" of wood in the back. Step around to the other side and start from 4"-5" behind the face and cut toward the back leaving wood in the back. Have the guys tighten up the slack in the pull line and then cut the back loose and over it goes.

These aren't hard to do they are just spooky, they make these breaking wood noises that cause the faint of heart to load their pants. :hmm3grin2orange:

Geofore, I hope you dont mind but I didn't change a thing really. :D
 
Climb or Fell...

Pretty straight fwrd...

Climb and piece down small or fell heads out whole after removing sound lower limbs head/crown availing space for failed limb/stem head to fold down...

To fell; fit side line heading opposite to the lean taking up weight, one line on each stem and pull lines then scarf up at ground level and back cut using ropes to pull and counter weight lean...
 
get a professional, as you said, you are not a climber, so don't even think about climbing it, if you get on the roof and start cutting you will be a) trespassing and b) risking destabilizing something in the split lead and bringing a widowmaker down on your head or c) pinching your stick saw hopelessly, If you ratchet the split before you fall it wouldn't that require you to monkey around on a ladder next to an unstable hazardous tree? If you attempt to use a throwline to set rigging from the ground, are you experienced doing so? again big risk of a) destabilizing something while you are standing underneath and b) getting your lines stuck
If you try to fall this tree, are you experienced enough at falling that you absolutely understand all of the concepts described to you? Can you fall this tree because you know what you are doing or because you just got lucky and it decides to come over and not kill you.Ever watch the movie 'sometimes a great notion'? Do this at your own risk, As a pro I see this tree as one that should be dealt with by a pro. If you hire somebody just to get it on the ground and you do the cleanup you should be able to get a reasonable bid and you might learn something by watching.
 
computeruser said:
Ok, this maple broke earlier this year and I really need to work on getting it down. The branch that is intact shouldn't be too bad to put where I want it, between ropes, a vehicle to pull with, and some judicious cutting. The broken leader is NOT leaning on this branch and only has a few 3" branches touching towards the top.

Now the broken leader, that's the one I'm not sure about. It needs to either be dropped in a 25foot wide area parallel to the fence, or swung ninety degrees so it falls perpendicular to the fence, because anything shy of 90 degrees will cause substantial property damage. The 90 degree idea seems darned-near impossible, and the parallel to the fence plan seems challenging.

Any thoughts on how to get this thing down? Any suggestions on how to deal with the absence of any good place (with a reasoanble height) to cut anything remotely like a hinge on the broken leader?

Picture #1:
July20_Cemetery_06a.jpg


Picture #2:
July20_Cemetery_07a.jpg
you should hire a tree service.
 

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