Rebuilding a homemade splitter

[kaybee1]

Hi Guys,

I've been reading up a lot about the work other have done with their home made splitters and still have a couple unanswered questions I'm hoping some of you experienced builders can help with.

I purchased a homemade splitter about 5 years ago and after reading through the wealth of information here I've discovered it was build almost 100% incorrectly. Here's the defeciencies I've identifed SO FAR:

• 28 GPM pump (Haldex 1058) w/ 4gal reservoir
• Farymann Diesel engine running at 650rpm (MAX RPM 2500)
• Unknown valve w/o detent
• spin-on filter inline w/ SUCTION from pump
• Hydraulic reservior located BELOW pump suction

This is only a partial list and I think I have a pretty good grip on how to fix most of them. So far here's what I'm doing to this splitter:

• Upgrading engine to 13HP gasoline 3600RPM engine
• Installing 40 GAL reservoir
• replacing spin-on filter w/ 30GPM setup
• Installing intank suction screen filter
• Replacing valve (not sure what to get)
• Replacing hoses (all are cracked and unknown pressure capacity)

Here are my questions:

Question 1: Is there a difference between 1/2" and 3/4" working ports? If the valve is designed for 30GPM, does it matter if it has 1/2" or 3/4" working ports? The 1/2" just concerns me.

Question 2: What size hoses should I use? people are saying bigger is always better and I want as LITTLE restriction as possible in my circuit. Should I run 1/2" everywhere?

Thanks for any input you guys can offer.

Scott

 

[John R]

How does the splitter work now?
I see changes you could make by what you've said, but if it splits wood, use it.

 

[kaybee1]

I'm going from a tiny place that burns little over a cord a year to a house literally 5x the size (I live in a one bedroom and just got a great deal on a bank owned property). My wood needs are going to jump to, I'm guessing, 6-8 cord a year... Maybe more.

Right now with one person running the lever the splitter will do a cord pretty darn slowly but it's tollorable. Cycle time is probably around 30+ seconds and there's almost no power. 16" oak wont split because the valve just makes this whining sound, I can't speed up the engine because the dinky reservoir will cavitate... it's just a mess.

I plan to get a full 14-16 cord grapple load next month and start processing next winters wood. With the splitter I have, it'd probably be faster to do it with a axe.

Scott

 

[mga]

This is only a partial list and I think I have a pretty good grip on how to fix most of them. So far here's what I'm doing to this splitter:

Upgrading engine to 13HP gasoline 3600RPM engine
Installing 40 GAL reservoir
replacing spin-on filter w/ 30GPM setup
Installing intank suction screen filter
Replacing valve (not sure what to get)
Replacing hoses (all are cracked and unknown pressure capacity)

the 40 gallon reservoir is over kill. you can get away with a 15 or 18 gallon tank and save yourself a lot of money.

filter on RETURN line...not suction!!

the in-tank suction screen might end up being a killer later on. you don't need it and if it ever did get plugged, it would cause you problems. with a filter installed in line and a properly designed tank, you don't need it.

prince has excellent log splitter valves...i believe a model 2000 is what you want (check their web site)

 

[blades]

You would not need to replace engine, unless that is your preference. 3/4" lines and fittings will induce less friction, but if the cylinder and pump output only have 1/2" ports it is a pretty mute point and expensive overkill. The control valves are available with 3/4" ports same note here as above. What you could use is 45deg couplings rather than 90's also make sure that they are of the higher flow type. That change alone on my rebuild made a world of difference as to heat build up from restrictions. Most of the cylinders I have seen listed that would work nicely for a splitter have 1/2" ports. Running the diesel at say about 1/2 throttle, 28gpm pump and Prince's auto return valve, would likely be faster than one person could load and clear and just sip fuel. As was mentioned previously 40 gal. tank is not needed 15 I would consider just a tad small for the pump but adequate. Rule of thumb, pump gpm = tank size and that the return line filter also matches pump gpm or exceeds it. Remember that the tank needs expansion and breathing room in it. Therefore a 20 gallon tank might only have say about 15 gal in it. Make sure that output of tank is higher than pump intake and that the return line to the tank is a couple inches below the fill level of the tank ( prevents air entrainment). I agree that screens on the suction line seem to cause a mess of problems around here. Anyway that's my 2 cents worth, have fun and stay safe and warm.

 

[triptester]

One effect of running small hoses is they increase friction. The increased friction causes heat and back pressure that can cause the relief valve to open prematurely.
Larger hoses are more expensive but if you are replacing the hoses go with the bigger ones right away rather than having to change them latter because you find that the smaller hoses are inadaquate.

Look closely at hydraulic fittings they are not created equally. I have seen many fittings that had orifices less than the size of the hose they are connected to.

My brother had a problem with high fluid temps. After changing the hoses between the valve and cylinder 3/4" from 1/2" and less restrictive fittings fluid temps dropped dramatically.

 

[kaybee1]

Thanks for all the great input everyone.

Here's where I'm at right now:

I just ordered a double spool RD5200 valve from Prince. It has detent on both spools so I can do a complete auto cycle. It cost me almost double but I think the ability to run everything myself at a fast pace is worth the extra money.

From Northern tool I ordered a 25gal tank with 18gal usable. Seems to call closer in line with what Blades was pointing out. I also ordered a 35GPM filter and half couplings. Once the valve comes in I plan to price out 1 1/4" hoses all around with a max of 45* on all angles.

Seems to be coming together. I'll keep everyone posted with progress and pictures. Maybe in the next couple days I'll take a picture of what I'm starting with. It's going to be a completely different machine.

Oh, and as for why I want to get rid of the diesel... It doesn't have glow plugs, it's real loud and impossible to start in the winter. It's also abou 8-10 HP... definately under powered for the pump.

That engine has been a thorn in my side since I bought the splitter. I love diesel as much as the next guy I think for this application, I'm going with gasoline. :msp_cool:

 

[GeeVee]

not that you hadn't got good advice here already, but i think kevinj knows a bit about hydraulics too.

wheres the pics?

 

[Locust Cutter]

not that you hadn't got good advice here already, but i think kevinj knows a bit about hydraulics too.

wheres the pics?

:agree2:opcorn:

 

[kaybee1]

Alright, alright... I'll try to get some in the AM before I leave for work. By the time I get home, it's already dark.

Stay tuned...

 

[kaybee1]

Pictures!

As promised... Here's the original splitter. Taking a closer look, I see a number places this thing could have killed me. the high pressure line appears to have a galv. elbow @ the valve.

Isn't this a no no?

Comments? thoughts?

 

[blades]

1.25" hose? + fittings and reducers Man you are going to be in for a price shock. Neither my fork lift or my LX485 skid steer use anything that large. Heck just 1/2 of the flat faced couplers on my skidder are $50 ea. This is starting sound like someone pulling our chain.

 

[kaybee1]

pulling your chain... Nah. I couldn't be bothered.

I dont like to cut corners and if I'm going to do something, I want it done right. If 3/4" hoses are going to restrict fluid flow and 1.25" hoses wont, and if it's economically feisable to go with the larger hose, why not?

It looks like I need R12 hose for the high pressure side from the pump to the valve and from the valve to the rear of the cylinder. From the valve to the front of the cylinder I can go with a MUCH less expensive hose and from the valve to the filter & reservoir, I can go with something even cheaper.

DiscountHydraulics is getting $12.37/ft for the R12 @ 1.25". If I build this right, I wont need more than 6 feet of the expensive stuff. I dont know what fittings are going to cost but I plan to call a couple local hydraulic shops and see if I can bring in my splitter and bulk hose and have it all built right on the spot to the proper lengths once we're done rebuilding it.

So far this is what I've purchased for the project:

13HP Horizontal engine from Harbor Freight (Honda Clone)
Prince double spool double detent valve for full automatic cycle - RD5200
25 Gal hydraulic reservior from Northern
Pump mount bracket and half-couplings from Northern
#9 Dexter torsion axle from Nuera Transport
14" wheels and tires from Nuera

All thats left is hoses.

Once this stuff all shows up we'll start tearing it down and refabricating the back for proper placement of the engine / reservior and shortest possible distance from pump to valve / cylinder.

Pictures were posted this morning but are apprently pending moderator approval.

No chians being pulled... I need this splitter DONE the week of the 22nd. Come hell or high water, it'll be done (I hope :msp_bored

 

[djones]

I agree that 1 1/4" hose is over kill for all hoses, use it for the suction line only and 3/4" for the rest if you want to. The double detent is questionable because safety wise you don't want the machine running by itself with you hands near the dangerous end, BAD JUJU.

 

[kaybee1]

I thought I remembered reading somewhere on AS that 1.25" hose would be the Cadillac solution. I’ll price out both options. If 1.25" is over budget then I'll have to reconsider.

I agree... double detent is dangerous but isn't processing wood in general dangerous? As long as your careful and follow your own safety precautions accidents won’t happen.

It's like a gun... A Glock has no external safeties (except a trigger safety). A 1911 has two. Is one more dangerous than the other? No. If both are handled properly and in the hands of someone competent and knowledgeable about firearm safety, neither will ever be 'accidentally discharged'.

 

[blades]

I apologize for the chain comment, no pics at that point. That elbow does indeed look like a galv. one. I personally did not go with 3/4" hose due cost of fittings and reducers as all my ports are 1/2". The 45 deg full flow fittings and a correction to my tank system corrected overtemp problems I was experiencing. ( poor factory design - harbor freight) Shortly after the rebuild the unit was pressed into service on a 100 deg day for 8 hrs or so of continuous use, even at the peak of the day you could put your bare hand on the cylinder and not get blistered.
The prince valve I was referring to is their auto cycle valve, was around $349.00 has 2 controls Both are actuated at the beginning of cycle, at end of stroke one snaps off then the ram returns and the second snaps to neutral, end of cycle. A double detent valve is very dangerous on a splitter as stated eariler. Nothern has pre-configured hyd. hose in various foot long increments. The prices were at the time less than I could have the same made at the local hyd. shop. You really do not need a hose rating of over 4500 psi as I doubt the pump or cylinder are rated that high. There is no pressure on the suction line just need a hyd. compatable hose that is reinforced so that it will not collapse, same material could be used for the return line, reinforcement there is not needed. Very little pressure there also. The filter fixtures have a bypass should the filter become clogged. Best to you and your build , keep the pictures coming as you progress. Chris

 

[triptester]

Suction and return hoses 1.25". Pump to valve hose 1". Valve to cylinder 3/4" hoses.

 

[kaybee1]

Hi Guys,

The splitter is finally complete. For hoses I ended up doing the following:

1 1/4" suction line
3/4" pump to valve (valve has only 3/4" working ports anyway)
3/4" valve to rear of piston
5/8" valve to front of piston
3/4" return

The piston has only a 3/8" port on the return stroke so we went with 5/8" hose. I'm running into some overheating problems I'm trying to work out but it's together and working. I think the engine is over-spinning the pump and as a result, pushing too much fluid though the valve. The fluid heats to ~190F with minimal use. Mostly neutral.

[video=youtube;V8NGcsT6ABI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8NGcsT6ABI[/video]

 

[Slick]

Looks like a nice splitter, but I'm confused....you were talking about huge hoses for reduced restiction etc...but I see a 90degree fitting on pretty much every hose, most on both ends...you know that's more restiction than the hose diameter debate right?

 

[Iron man]

I'm the last guy here to give advice on this but I was thinking the same thing about the 90deg fittings.