Redirects

[Tim Gardner]

I have decided that I need to get a double micro pulley for my redirects. Using a carabiner seems to cancel out the FC.

When using a carabiner as a redirect I have noticed I need to insert the working end in first and then the standing part. If I insert it opposite of that is seems to bite down and cause the line to feed even harder. Does anyone have a few tips on using a carabiner for a redirect? I am not sure when I will get around to ordering the pulley with the holidays coming up and all.

 

[treeclimber165]

Use two biners and feed one side of your lifeline through each. This will keep the ropes from biting on each other. I've done this recently on large-spread live oaks using a loop runner and two biners, it works great. Although if you MUST buy a pulley, now is a good time to do it since Sherrill still has them on sale (till the end of the month?).

 

[Tom Dunlap]

While at TCI I talked with a friend who teaches climbing and rigging in the UK. Paolo has a rule of thumb that I'm adopting as time goes along. His rule is use HMS biners for all climbing. Since we tend to put more that one rope or piece into our personal support biners it makes sense having a wide area to support the load.

What kind of biner are you using as a redi, Tim? I think the largest radius HMS biner is the ISC Mongoose. They now come with a Quad Lock system and a no catch hook on the biner. Much better than the Petzl/Kong version.

http://iscwales.com/


Here is a copy of a post that I made on Tree Climbers International a few days ago, http://www.treeclimbing.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html

***
Mark Chisholm taught me handy way of redirecting your line.

Here is what your rope path would look like. I'll describe the setup as if you are a right handed climber.

The end of eye splice of your rope goes through your friction hitch and then through the small ring of the false crotch and then out the big ring on the falses crotch. Next, the rope goes through a biner attached to the front d of the saddle. For maximum effeciency, use a pulley on this biner. Next. the end or eye splice goes through the second false crotch in the same fasion as the first one. After the end or eye splice comes out of the big ring, the rope is clipped into the front d of the saddle like normal.

If you look at the rope, you'll see that the path looks like an M with the top points going through false crotches and the bottom points attached to the saddle. When the left FC is cleared it will be retrieved at the saddle. Unthread the rope out of the FC and clear the second or go about your climb with just one tie in point.

This system uses up a lot of rope and is slow to move but is really handy. Being able to retrieve both FCs without worries of ropes jamming is another plus.

Strong limbs and single ropes!

Tom
***THE FOLLOWING PRACTICE IS NOT MEANT AS AN ENDORSEMENT OR RECOMMENDATION. MAKE THE MODIFICATIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK***

There, you're on your own now.

I took a CMI RP 110D pulley, http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/pulleys/micro.asp and took out the middle cheek plate. I added a small nylon washer to take the place of the plate. Without the middle cheek, it's easier to install and remove the rope. Also, since we are using this as a redi, our rope is changing direction so the rope rubs on the cheek plates. Less cheek plate means less friction.

The nice part about this pulley is that the eyes in the cheek plates are fully parallel rather than spread out like on another brand. Also, this pulley is light and compact.

I have no clue how much strength is lost from taking out the plate. Since the pulley starts out at 7k#, I'm comfortable with the margin of safety. If you make the modification, you're on your own.

Tom

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by treeclimber165
Use two biners and feed one side of your lifeline through each. This will keep the ropes from biting on each other. I've done this recently on large-spread live oaks using a loop runner and two biners, it works great. Although if you MUST buy a pulley, now is a good time to do it since Sherrill still has them on sale (till the end of the month?).

Brian,

Are you clipping a biner on each end of the loop or are you clipping both into the loop ends together?

 

[Tim Gardner]

Tom,

The ISC Mongoose is the biner I have started using in my FC. The biner I use for a redirect is a Petzl bent gate. Maybe I should get another Mongoose for the redi or just splice another FC.

The CMI pulley is the one I was going to get. Sherill sells them and it will match the pulley in my FC.

I am not sure Mark's method would fly because you would need a clear path for the line in FC 1 to travel. In live oaks there is always something weird going on. However, it is a great improvement on double crotching.

 

[treeclimber165]

Tim,
I used two biners side by side on the same end of the loop runner (which was choked on the limb 3' over my head while standing on another lead). Another option is using a single pulley like a micropulley, and run one side of your rope through the pulley and the other side through the biner. This will keep the ropes from binding and only one side will be riding directly on the biner, which is hardly any friction and a lot cheaper than a double pulley.

Now if we can get you to lose the Blake's and try a Distal or V.T. using 8mm T-900, you will lose a LOT more resistance when returning from a limbwalk.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Another way to use 2 karabs is to use then on each end of the loop, vise choking the loop to the branch.

Like a quickdraw in rock climbing.

On situations where you plan to descend the tree instead of climbing to retrieve the redi, it becomes self retrievable.

One end comes out, if the weight of the rope does not pull the redi out, then it will come down with the MTIP.

This is the method B. Strasser used in the Masters Chalange this summer to get to the limbwalk.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by treeclimber165


Now if we can get you to lose the Blake's and try a Distal or V.T. using 8mm T-900, you will lose a LOT more resistance when returning from a limbwalk.

I knew that one was coming from someone. It was the only pic I had of my new FC with the Mongoose biner. I dig the blake's on pine removals tho. The vt with pulley is my choice on pruning jobs.

 

[Tim Gardner]

My vt hitch.

 

[Tim Gardner]

This is a pic of the way I prefer to use a blake's hitch.

 

[FBerkel]

JPS,
Have you tried Strasser's method? Does one biner ever want to creep up at the expense of the other, causing rope to drag on the branch? If not, it sounds like a great technique.

Tim,
I've been using the cmi double, (and love it), but only in places where I'm heading back up anyway, since I haven't figured a way to retrieve it from below. I use it on a basket hitched or choked prussik loop, which twists laterally easily enough to avoid most of the cheek plate friction.

Some hms models have an angle to the bottom leg, forcing the ropes to the side away from the gate, and to cram together. Others, (such as the Kong 22Kn autolock), have more of a symetry to the bottom angles (like an isosceles triangle), and ropes run better.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Only a few time Fred. I've not had any problems with it so far. I think an I&I would work better if used frequently.

I might try one of my old tress cords I spliced from tenex, since I think Tenex sucks for climbing hitches.

I think you could could use a full wrap on a straight stem like some people talk about using MTIP. I've not had the stones to atempt that yet.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn


I think you could could use a full wrap on a straight stem like some people talk about using MTIP. I've not had the stones to atempt that yet.

When I have to climb a pole to take down a cable or phone line I will use my FC to descend on. It is a lot safer than trying to spike down a hard skinny pole.