Round-up Ready Sweetcorn

[luckydozenfarm]

Yea, Siegers is a few miles away, but like you said, only in large quantities. Dads only looking for 1/2 pound or so.

He's making calls to a few grower friends who might use it and see if they can spare a little, but nobody here uses it.

hey I grow the stuff..the variety I like is a bi-color called Obsession II by Seminis. I buy it from Sieger Seed Co. It is also Bt corn, and it comes in 25Mil (about an acre's worth) bags. To buy it you need a License from Monsanto, which basically says you won't resell it to someone else, and follow a few other rules. ;(

I know a lot of people hate Monsanto, but RR field corn has been around a long time and that's about all anyone grows now. I believe Dow Chemical has their own variety of Liberty Link corn, which is similar to Roundup.

RR Triple-Pro sweet corn came out in 2011 and we were the first in our county to use it. Its wonderful, as there isn't any corn earworms and without weeds its easier to pick.

Here are some pics I took this morning. I sprayed roundup over it last weekend and you can see the kill down effect. PM me when you get a chance )
View attachment 294753View attachment 294754View attachment 294755View attachment 294756

 

[Sagetown]

I wouldn't suggest buying it early. Order it next year in time for planting. Seed does not get better with age!

Good Enough. I ordered a seed catalog to help me remember.

 

[Dalmatian90]

I routinely buy seed either in bulk packages that will last me years, or on sale at the end of the season. Keep it in tupperware in the fridge over the winter.

Seeds are designed by Mother Nature to last...a long time. Mainly as long as they're kept dry. Keeping them cool helps keep the germination rates up.

That said, corn is one of those crops that is more difficult to deal with keeping seed over several years because it's generally planted as a row crop and it's sensitive to density, and even on a garden scale gets to be a bit much for overseeding then thinning out pretty quickly.

Stuff like lettuce, squash, etc. I can just plant a bit heavier to make up for any loss in germination in the seed and it doesn't matter that much whether I thin it or not.

Anything you're starting inside is even easier to overseed, quick enough to pick through them after they germinate and reduce to one plant per spot.

If you are storing seed over the course of years, you can test the germination rate yourself. Most seeds count out 20, fold them into a damp (not dripping wet) paper towel, put it in a plastic bag on the kitchen counter for three days, then open it and count how many germinated. Should give you a pretty good indication of what to expect and decide whether its time to go buy new seed or not.

 

[Havana woody]

Archimedes European Commission to criminalize nearly all seeds and plants not registered with government

A new law proposed by the European Commission would make it illegal to "grow, reproduce or trade" any vegetable seeds that have not been "tested, approved and accepted" by a new EU bureaucracy named the "EU Plant Variety Agency."

It's called the Plant Reproductive Material Law, and it attempts to put the government in charge of virtually all plants and seeds. Home gardeners who grow their own plants from non-regulated seeds would be considered criminals under this law.

The draft text of the law, which has already been amended several times due to a huge backlash from gardeners, is viewable here.

"This law will immediately stop the professional development of vegetable varieties for home gardeners, organic growers, and small-scale market farmers," said Ben Gabel, vegetable breeder and director of The Real Seed Catalogue. "Home gardeners have really different needs - for example they grow by hand, not machine, and can't or don't want to use such powerful chemical sprays. There's no way to register the varieties suitable for home use as they don't meet the strict criteria of the Plant Variety Agency, which is only concerned about approving the sort of seed used by industrial farmers."

Virtually all plants, vegetable seeds and gardeners to eventually be registered by government

All governments are, of course, infatuated with the idea of registering everybody and everything. Under Title IV of the proposed EU law:

Title IV Registration of varieties in national and Union registers
The varieties, in order to be made available on the market throughout the Union, shall be included in a national register or in the Union register via direct application procedure to the CVPO.

Gardeners must also pay fees to the EU bureaucracy for the registration of their seeds. From the proposed law text:

The competent authorities and the CPVO should charge fees for the processing of
applications, the formal and technical examinations including audits, variety denomination, and the maintenance of the varieties for each year for the duration of
the registration.

While this law may initially only be targeted at commercial gardeners, it sets a precedent to sooner or later go after home gardeners and require them to abide by the same insane regulations.

Government bureaucracy gone insane

"This is an instance of bureaucracy out of control," says Ben Gabel. "All this new law does is create a whole new raft of EU civil servants being paid to move mountains of papers round all day, while killing off the seed supply to home gardeners and interfering with the right of farmers to grow what they want. It also very worrying that they have given themselves the power to regulate and licence any plant species of any sort at all in the future - not just agricultural plants, but grasses, mosses, flowers, anything at all - without having to bring it back to the Council for a vote."

 

[farmer steve]

Archimedes European Commission to criminalize nearly all seeds and plants not registered with government

A new law proposed by the European Commission would make it illegal to "grow, reproduce or trade" any vegetable seeds that have not been "tested, approved and accepted" by a new EU bureaucracy named the "EU Plant Variety Agency."

It's called the Plant Reproductive Material Law, and it attempts to put the government in charge of virtually all plants and seeds. Home gardeners who grow their own plants from non-regulated seeds would be considered criminals under this law.

The draft text of the law, which has already been amended several times due to a huge backlash from gardeners, is viewable here.

"This law will immediately stop the professional development of vegetable varieties for home gardeners, organic growers, and small-scale market farmers," said Ben Gabel, vegetable breeder and director of The Real Seed Catalogue. "Home gardeners have really different needs - for example they grow by hand, not machine, and can't or don't want to use such powerful chemical sprays. There's no way to register the varieties suitable for home use as they don't meet the strict criteria of the Plant Variety Agency, which is only concerned about approving the sort of seed used by industrial farmers."

Virtually all plants, vegetable seeds and gardeners to eventually be registered by government

All governments are, of course, infatuated with the idea of registering everybody and everything. Under Title IV of the proposed EU law:

Title IV Registration of varieties in national and Union registers
The varieties, in order to be made available on the market throughout the Union, shall be included in a national register or in the Union register via direct application procedure to the CVPO.

Gardeners must also pay fees to the EU bureaucracy for the registration of their seeds. From the proposed law text:

The competent authorities and the CPVO should charge fees for the processing of
applications, the formal and technical examinations including audits, variety denomination, and the maintenance of the varieties for each year for the duration of
the registration.

While this law may initially only be targeted at commercial gardeners, it sets a precedent to sooner or later go after home gardeners and require them to abide by the same insane regulations.

Government bureaucracy gone insane

"This is an instance of bureaucracy out of control," says Ben Gabel. "All this new law does is create a whole new raft of EU civil servants being paid to move mountains of papers round all day, while killing off the seed supply to home gardeners and interfering with the right of farmers to grow what they want. It also very worrying that they have given themselves the power to regulate and licence any plant species of any sort at all in the future - not just agricultural plants, but grasses, mosses, flowers, anything at all - without having to bring it back to the Council for a vote."

just more cost for the end user,ie you and me if something like this would happen in USA. EU people won't be able to but a loaf of bread.IMO

 

[Marco]

Maybe the Bt isn't such a bad idea when you think of a bunch of Yentas tearing a half a pickup load apart looking for them 4 perfect ears.

 

[farmer steve]

Maybe the Bt isn't such a bad idea when you think of a bunch of Yentas tearing a half a pickup load apart looking for them 4 perfect ears.

had that problem till i started growing Bt corn. told em they didn't have to peel it back cause there were no worms and if they found one at home when they were husking it i'd give them a free dozen. never did.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

had that problem till i started growing Bt corn. told em they didn't have to peel it back cause there were no worms and if they found one at home when they were husking it i'd give them a free dozen. never did.

This year we picked our first patch of Round-up Ready Obsession II around Memorial Day and it had a few ear worms...I called Seminis and they wanted a few samples of the worms and the ear. Its funny because we had no damage on the leaves or stalk and only a few worms on the ear total throughout the field. I think I heard at a meeting that in the sweet corn they are having time getting the full expression of the Bt gene in the ear. I planted my refuge plot right next to it (a Mirai variety) and the damage was severe, even with spraying. Maybe we just had a good year for moths. What variety are you growing Steve?

 

[farmer steve]

This year we picked our first patch of Round-up Ready Obsession II around Memorial Day and it had a few ear worms...I called Seminis and they wanted a few samples of the worms and the ear. Its funny because we had no damage on the leaves or stalk and only a few worms on the ear total throughout the field. I think I heard at a meeting that in the sweet corn they are having time getting the full expression of the Bt gene in the ear. I planted my refuge plot right next to it (a Mirai variety) and the damage was severe, even with spraying. Maybe we just had a good year for moths. What variety are you growing Steve?

From what i have read if you have real hot weather at silking the Bt can be affected if the silk dries down to fast and moth activity is still high you can still see some worm damage.i had this happen several years ago with extremely hot weather. just very small worms in the very tip but still didnt have to use any chemical spray.LD what i'm growing this year is the temptation II. have to stick with the se & sy up here as the customers dont like the harder kernels of the Sh types.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

From what i have read if you have real hot weather at silking the Bt can be affected if the silk dries down to fast and moth activity is still high you can still see some worm damage.i had this happen several years ago with extremely hot weather. just very small worms in the very tip but still didnt have to use any chemical spray.LD what i'm growing this year is the temptation II. have to stick with the se & sy up here as the customers dont like the harder kernels of the Sh types.

I was thinking of trying the Passion II on my next planting. I have to say I've never heard a bad thing about hard kernels. We use Sh3 varieties due to its sugar holding power in shipping. We plant about 3-5 acres at a time and it is all hand picked but I'm thinking of getting an Oxbo corn picker if I keep getting more orders and contracts.

Let me say this to the Monsanto naysayers, if you ever get to hand pick 3 acres of sweet corn in a field that is COMPLETELY free of weeds, you will NEVER go back to anything else. Plus, even with all these people who claim to be "organic lovers", most people won't buy corn with a worm in it. Even my wife won't eat it. Bottom line if it has worms in it, it's basically cattle feed.

So people can complain about Monsanto all they want. It's just talk and gives people something to complain about other than whatever Kim Kardashian was wearing. You just cannot grow "organic" corn where I live and try to sell it. The worms and weeds will get most of it and whatever you do have that is decent, no one wants to pay a premium to the growers for the excessive field loss they will incur. You will be out of business within the first season, I promise you that.
Even my heavily sprayed non-Bt refuge field is barely saleable in most cases. This last harvest had a worm in every ear I scouted and was a total bust. And not just a small worm, more like those giant inch long ones. Some even had two worms in each ear. We cut it, baled it and tossed it to the cows. What a waste.

 

[farmer steve]

ijust want to say to all my fellow farmers that i dont want to see this thread to turn into a hate the other guy for what he or she grows or not.we live in the good Ole USA so we can have choices,good, bad or indifferent. everyone have a great growing season and fight the weeds and bugs however you have to. "and thats all i have to say about that."

 

[luckydozenfarm]

No TV here so there's not much keeping up with the Kardashians going on.


GMO crops are a grave concern to many, pun intended, and quite likely mega corp dollars are opening Pandora's box.

Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.

Well I think Steve said it best. You grow what you want and we will grow what we want. If you don't like GMO crops you don't have to eat them. Grow and hunt all of your own food and live off that. To debate the health concerns over GMO crops is right up there with global warming. You will have opponents on either side. There isn't anything other than hard evidence that will change my mind on the subject, so posting a video about some guy in a labcoat spewing proven incorrect information about GMO's won't dissuade my opinion at the least. And I'm sure you nothing I say will change your mind, so lets just leave it at that.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

First Ever Long-Term Study of GMO Corn Shows Strong Link To Breast Cancer, Liver Cancer, and Premature Death in Rats

First Ever Long-Term Study of GMO Corn Shows Strong Link To Breast Cancer, Liver Cancer, and Premature Death in Rats

This study you are talking about is the famous Seralini study that is viewed flawed by many researchers on both sides of the GMO issue. You may have wanted to look that up before you copy and pasted this off Google. If you really knew anything about this issue this would not have been the link to prove your point.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonenti...k-a-turning-point-in-the-debate-over-gm-food/
http://www.aei.org/article/energy-a...ini-finally-responds-to-torrent-of-criticism/
http://www.newscientist.com/article...crops-and-cancer-questioned.html#.UbibyVgo670

http://www.science20.com/cool-links/hyped_séralini_gm_maize_study_looks_worse_every_day-95172
http://www.agbioworld.org/newsletter_wm/index.php?caseid=archive&newsid=2945

 

[Dalmatian90]

Even my heavily sprayed non-Bt refuge field is barely saleable in most cases. This last harvest had a worm in every ear I scouted and was a total bust. And not just a small worm, more like those giant inch long ones. Some even had two worms in each ear. We cut it, baled it and tossed it to the cows. What a waste.

I believe Del's point is...do you think your Bt corn will be any different 20 years down the road?

Refuge plots are akin to firewood transport bans -- they will slow the spread of exotic insects, or in this case the spread of any Bt resistant bugs, but develop and spread they will.

This is a separate issue from folks who have concerns over the proteins being introduced into GE foods and whether there will be allergy or other health concerns from them. There the science is more in the "we don't *know* of anything bad, of course we don't really even know what we're supposed to be looking for either."

With resistance to glyphosate and Bt, we know it occurs, and we know unless we practice "safe sex" in the farm fields it will occur and spread, and we know industrial agriculture is not good at developing and following best practices but instead slaps bandaids over bandaids (such as irradiating meat or dosing it with ammonia because of cultural practices that created more dangerous forms of e-coli combined with processing practices that don't keep meat clean)

Once the constant pressure of Bt from hybrid crops develops resistant strains of insects, the use of applied Bt to deal with specific problems, at specific times, by non-GE growers will be eliminated as well.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

I believe Del's point is...do you think your Bt corn will be any different 20 years down the road?

Refuge plots are akin to firewood transport bans -- they will slow the spread of exotic insects, or in this case the spread of any Bt resistant bugs, but develop and spread they will.

This is a separate issue from folks who have concerns over the proteins being introduced into GE foods and whether there will be allergy or other health concerns from them. There the science is more in the "we don't *know* of anything bad, of course we don't really even know what we're supposed to be looking for either."

With resistance to glyphosate and Bt, we know it occurs, and we know unless we practice "safe sex" in the farm fields it will occur and spread, and we know industrial agriculture is not good at developing and following best practices but instead slaps bandaids over bandaids (such as irradiating meat or dosing it with ammonia because of cultural practices that created more dangerous forms of e-coli combined with processing practices that don't keep meat clean)

Once the constant pressure of Bt from hybrid crops develops resistant strains of insects, the use of applied Bt to deal with specific problems, at specific times, by non-GE growers will be eliminated as well.

Resistance for herbicides and insecticides is nothing new to a farmer. We have been battling both since the dawn of agriculture. There are already weeds resistant to Atrazine and Liberty Link. Most of the corn earworm moths in our area are resistant to Pounce and Bayroid. We have flies that are resistant to the ear tags we have been using for years on our cows. So you are worried that weeds will be resistant to Roundup? So what? It's inevitable, just like I won't live to be 120.

When you apply for a grower's license from Monsanto, you will have to sign waivers and follow the Stewardship Agreement inside the Technology Use Guide manual. You are then giving them the right to enter your fields to take tissue samples and to make sure you are following their agreement to the letter T.

If you are accusing them of applying "bandaids" as solutions to insect/weed resistance I would like to know where you are getting that information. We shouldn't place blame on any individual company due to the lack of oversight of another. I'm not saying they do or do not, but I work with Monsanto as a test grower and they are in my fields as much or more than I am. They have done 3 soil analysis tests just this season and they have mandated my fields to be sprayed at their exact glyphosate ratio. These guys are serious about what they do. Now how do I know this? Is it because I read a bunch of stuff off the internet from the Huffington Post or the Mother Earth News? No. Do I get my news from Fox News? No. I have been to many DeKalb seminars and I work with them on a daily basis.

I'm not saying GMO crops are completely safe. No scientist will ever say that. But what is worse is misleading scientific studies deliberately aimed to scare the public. The Seralini study mentioned by Del was the worst thing to happen to GMO, and it was completely based on flawed fundamental principles. Seralini himself admitted to it publicly. Yet, the damage had already been done, and the public's usual ignorant knee-jerk reaction was swift.

Hundreds of independent studies have been done and so far GMO's have never been proven to be unsafe. In fact, billions of tons of GMO corn has been consumed by millions of people and not one shred of evidence has shown to the contrary. How many studies is it going to take for the public to accept GMO's? I have no idea.

 

[Dalmatian90]

If you are accusing them of applying "bandaids" as solutions to insect/weed resistance I would like to know where you are getting that information.

From you.

Resistance for herbicides and insecticides is nothing new to a farmer. We have been battling both since the dawn of agriculture. There are already weeds resistant to Atrazine and Liberty Link. Most of the corn earworm moths in our area are resistant to Pounce and Bayroid. We have flies that are resistant to the ear tags we have been using for years on our cows. So you are worried that weeds will be resistant to Roundup? So what? It's inevitable

Likely for longer then man has existed, worms have been dying from ingesting Bt toxins.

Some people have seen that, and have exploited it responsibly in ways that didn't require "agreements" and licenses and maintaining refuge plots to limit the speed of the development of resistance...because they have used it in moderation and in targeted manners so the resistance hasn't developed.

Other farmers are like you -- who gives a ####, I'll be dead, I got mine. When Bt no longer works, we'll just slap another bandaid on the problem in the form of some new pesticide, because our monocultural, industrialized techniques invariably create resistance.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

From you.



Likely for longer then man has existed, worms have been dying from ingesting Bt toxins.

Some people have seen that, and have exploited it responsibly in ways that didn't require "agreements" and licenses and maintaining refuge plots to limit the speed of the development of resistance...because they have used it in moderation and in targeted manners so the resistance hasn't developed.

Other farmers are like you -- who gives a ####, I'll be dead, I got mine. When Bt no longer works, we'll just slap another bandaid on the problem in the form of some new pesticide, because our monocultural, industrialized techniques invariably create resistance.

What farmers are fighting is people like yourself. Plenty of time to complain, whine, and shove the problems down our throat and then still demand cheap food whenever and wherever they want it. You have a better idea than the thousands of scientists working on this? I would LOVE to hear it.

Now you're treading some deep water:

To say I don't give a ### about sustainable farming is ludicrous. That's ALL I do all day. I don't have a 8-5 M-F working in the A/C. I am a farmer..I don't clock out. You liberal do-nothings spout all the problems without any solutions.

You misunderstood what I was saying...yes, insects will become resistant to Bt. It was inevitable whether we stepped in as humans or not. That's how life works. Coming up with a new pesticide that is better is not a bandaid, but a solution. I couldn't begin to describe all the benefits glyphosate has over Atrazine (what we used before Round up). Why are you so opposed to it when there is no evidence that it is harmful? And you would be ok with us going back to Atrazine??? Which you have to mix with a chem suit and a mask, not to mention that it contaminates groundwater?

Are you even a farmer? Or am I just wasting my breath with someone who wouldn't know a field of corn from a field of sorghum?

 

[Marco]

Marco likes the smell of crop oil and Atrazine in the morning, honest. Just an earthy smell.

 

[Marco]

My manager got me into 25 acres of Brome that don't need nothing cept lime and a N fertilizer.

 

[lone wolf]

Speaking of cheap food................we all know the farmer is getting a very small percentage of what food sells for at the supermarket and it isn't fair. Monsanto probably makes more on your crop than you do.

Why are you so pro when there is no evidence that GMO's aren't harmful, not just to the humans that consume it, but quite possibly to many other plants and animals?

Do you believe you understand all of the long term consequences of GMO's? Or like Monsanto, is your motivation purely about money, and if there are problems, oh well?


The video reposed below ought to make a farmer think a little about the role they play as pawns in the GMO game. I edited my posting of the video you said was flawed and had bad information.

Who needs terrorists we are already being poisoned from within!