Froggy
ArboristSite Operative
What's up guys? I like the way my saddle is set up, but I was wondering how you all were set up. Thanks, BB
Saddle Set UP
- Thread starter Froggy
- Start date
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Here is a view of my Buckingham versitile saddle. I cut the front strap out leaving just one loop on each side. I spliced some Hi V and attached it with stainless shackles. For a lanyard I have about a 8 or 9 ft piece of Fly with a bulldog snap spliced on the end.
I am about to retire this full time saddle for a Kommet butterfly.
I am about to retire this full time saddle for a Kommet butterfly.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
John, nice to see someone else likes the microscender for a lanyard adjustment. I have used it on wire core, 16 strand and static and works for me better that a hitch.
I like the mod on your saddle using the 16 strand. Looks a lot smother than the webbing mod I did on my master.
Good to have you here on AS!
I like the mod on your saddle using the 16 strand. Looks a lot smother than the webbing mod I did on my master.
Good to have you here on AS!
Did you stitch the webbing yourself? I do have a grillion and I like it. THe only thing is that it only accepts certain diameter ropes and doesn't work half in climbing line. I had purchased a new bulldog for my lanyard check it out. Its great. 16 strand was eaier to get a hold of than anything else that work with grillion at the time. I am going to get a kommet and I think I am going to go with a distal setup, and use some of the rock climbing rope offered by new england that has a really soft lay. I'm not sure if I'll try and splice it since they say it can't be done or just stitch it up and shrink wrap it.
Heath
ArboristSite Lurker
I support Big John's Decision. My Komet Butterfly is da bomb!
So comfortable, so light, so much movement.
However, I know a guy who has had the floating d come apart on him! Anyone else with that problem? If so, how did you fix it?
The only problem I have had with mine is that it has a CE certification, but no ANSI stamp. So I was not allowed to use it in a work climb competition. Pissed me off, but I still got 5th place!
Snikuz
So comfortable, so light, so much movement.
However, I know a guy who has had the floating d come apart on him! Anyone else with that problem? If so, how did you fix it?
The only problem I have had with mine is that it has a CE certification, but no ANSI stamp. So I was not allowed to use it in a work climb competition. Pissed me off, but I still got 5th place!
Snikuz
Stumper
One Man Band
Er... r/c most of our gear isn't rated for FALL protection. We are working with suspension gear. The microcender is designed for use in life SUPPORT situations. I don't use one but I don't see a problem in using one for a lanyard adjustment.
Mahk
ArboristSite Member
ANSI refers to them as either "work positioning lanyards" (Z 133.1: 3.16 and 8.7.2) or "personnel lanyards" (B.4.4).
r/c is basically correct. The Microcender falls short of the 5,000 pound minimum breaking strength required by ANSI Z 133.1. I have looked into this before and the MBS for the Microcender is reported as somewhere between 4,000 and 4,500 pounds. Petzl's Micrograb (originally sold by Rock Exotica as the Microjuster) is made specifically as a lanyard adjuster for the tree industry and is essentially a beefed up version of the Microcender. The Micrograb (6 oz.) is one ounce heavier than the Microcender (5 oz.), but exceeds the 5,000 pound MBS and has a shoulder bolt and lock nut instead of the quick release pin that the Microcender has. See Blair's 'Arborist Equipment', pp. 112-113.
That may all be moot, however, because when shock loaded the units will slip at around 4 kN (900 pounds). Depending on the type and diameter of the rope, these devices may even shred or shear the rope at shock loads that are lower than the MBS.
Mahk
r/c is basically correct. The Microcender falls short of the 5,000 pound minimum breaking strength required by ANSI Z 133.1. I have looked into this before and the MBS for the Microcender is reported as somewhere between 4,000 and 4,500 pounds. Petzl's Micrograb (originally sold by Rock Exotica as the Microjuster) is made specifically as a lanyard adjuster for the tree industry and is essentially a beefed up version of the Microcender. The Micrograb (6 oz.) is one ounce heavier than the Microcender (5 oz.), but exceeds the 5,000 pound MBS and has a shoulder bolt and lock nut instead of the quick release pin that the Microcender has. See Blair's 'Arborist Equipment', pp. 112-113.
That may all be moot, however, because when shock loaded the units will slip at around 4 kN (900 pounds). Depending on the type and diameter of the rope, these devices may even shred or shear the rope at shock loads that are lower than the MBS.
Mahk
Kneejerk Bombas
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Mahk,
You bring up interesting topics about breaking strength of a tool in a test situation and the actual breaking strength when it is in an actual working situation.
Do you expect manufacturers to test the products before they put them on the market? Crap, that could cost thousands of dollars! Let the arborists use these new tools and if they start failing, then test them.
Before you jump on me and call me bad names, or put me on ignore, site five tests that have been done with droping loads on arborists climbing systems, as they are being used today. Good luck!
I go to ISA sanctioned climbing events and cringe at some of the techniques they allow.
You bring up interesting topics about breaking strength of a tool in a test situation and the actual breaking strength when it is in an actual working situation.
Do you expect manufacturers to test the products before they put them on the market? Crap, that could cost thousands of dollars! Let the arborists use these new tools and if they start failing, then test them.
Before you jump on me and call me bad names, or put me on ignore, site five tests that have been done with droping loads on arborists climbing systems, as they are being used today. Good luck!
I go to ISA sanctioned climbing events and cringe at some of the techniques they allow.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I use 1/2 in HiVee in a Grillon, it works well till you get to the taper of the burry.
I'm with Mike on using new gear, we take risks all the time on the job. We dont want the industry to be like some of the big companies that will not allow anything but the approved list of gear and don't use a running bo'lin or you will be suspended. (there are companies out there that have that rule!)
I for wone would hart to have to climb without ascenders, and use a Ropeman on 1/2 in line frequently.
(Can I say here I do light rigging with my climbing line, or is that for another tread?)
I'm with Mike on using new gear, we take risks all the time on the job. We dont want the industry to be like some of the big companies that will not allow anything but the approved list of gear and don't use a running bo'lin or you will be suspended. (there are companies out there that have that rule!)
I for wone would hart to have to climb without ascenders, and use a Ropeman on 1/2 in line frequently.
(Can I say here I do light rigging with my climbing line, or is that for another tread?)
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
You have to take into consideration that the microcender will be holding 1/2 of the weigh applied to the lanyard. The lanyard rope is not tied to the tree or branch, it is put around it and connected back to the saddle.
Burnham
ArboristSite Operative
No D ring on the market meets that.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
When was the last time you had 5,000 lbs applied to your lanyard without your backbone being snapped like a twig? As short as my primary lanyard is I doubt I could generate 5,000 lbs in the event of a fall. If a spar splits my climbing line wrapped and attached to my center D-ring will take the pressure until I can pay out my lanyard. If my TIP fails and applies 5,000 lbs to my lanyard I would die anyway. So, WTF is your point? Is it that I need to use equipment that guarantees I die? I would rather take my chances of getting into position for a 3 point landing than to have my back broken and internal organs crushed.
As short as my primary lanyard is I doubt I could generate 5,000 lbs in the event of a fall. If a spar splits my climbing line wrapped and attached to my center D-ring will take the pressure until I can pay out my lanyard. If my TIP fails and applies 5,000 lbs to my lanyard I would die anyway. So, WTF is your point? Is it that I need to use equipment that guarantees I die? I would rather take my chances of getting into position for a 3 point landing than to have my back broken and internal organs crushed.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Once again we are confusing OSHA reg for ANSI standards.
ANSI is the bar to wich the employer will be held if there is a fatality. It is a standard, not regulation.
ANSI is the bar to wich the employer will be held if there is a fatality. It is a standard, not regulation.
dbeck
ArboristSite Operative
i don't know about every piece of gear, but ropes have to be at least 5400 lbs. easy way to remember? think of crappy arborplex rope...it is exactly 5400lbs, just enough to meet requirements.
where do you find the info on the d-rings burnham? are you saying that saddle manufacturers are selling us subpar gear? maybe the manufacturers are ignoring standards?
where do you find the info on the d-rings burnham? are you saying that saddle manufacturers are selling us subpar gear? maybe the manufacturers are ignoring standards?
Stumper
One Man Band
That "crappy" arborplex rope is what set the standard! What I've been told is that the standard was specifically written to match Arborplex specs back when it was the ONLY line specifically made for arborists. I climbed on arborplex years ago and was pretty pleased with it. It certainly was better than the Manilene (fibrilated polyethylene) that I was using before! The 1/2" Manilene had a breaking strength of about 3500 lbs but a melting point of about 225*F! I never had a problem but I also NEVER made a rapid descent on it. The way Brian reports burning up Polyester tress cords he would have wound up as a puddle of blood, bone and melted plastic climbing on Unmanila/Manilene.
Stumper
One Man Band
Incidentally, let's not overlook John's point. ANSI publishes a standard. In the case of an accident OSHA will compare the facts surrounding the event with the standards of practice published by ANSI. However, that does not make the standard mandatory. Employers should follow it for their own protection. We all should know it for our own benefit in making imformed decisions. (So that we don't climb on Unmanila while Arborplex and a host of stronger ropes are available etc. etc.) If Joe Independent wants to climb on 1/4 turn twistlock 'biners and 1/2" manila rope OSHA has no say-- but Joe is either ignorant or foolish.
