Sharpening after hitting a rock.

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All good, just thought maybe I could test something and maybe be of interest to everyone to see comparisons. If the concensus is that it probably won’t show much with what I have available then of course there isn’t any real point. I respect the opinions that have been shared here and will continue to learn as I go.
 
Rogue60 is on the money here.
He is correct when he says about the chain being more efficient if the chain has equal length cutters.
Talking about saw set is important and when your cutting large amounts such as he is in commercial settings, then yes, you get more with a correctly sharpened chain with equal length cutters.
having sharpened circular saw blades on firewood benches, I both respect and appreciate what he is saying, and he is correct in saying it.

Now in saying that, if I rock a chain side, or hit a few cutters with some wire, and damage a few, I am not going to take down the rest of the cutters on that chain to all equal length, I will put up with a few shorter ones, or a side of shorter ones, and gradually work to file them back over time to get them more equal, but I dont need, or choose not to have the efficiency that Rogue60 does, and I wish to make the chain life as long as possible by only shortening the cutters with the damage, not the entire chain.

So correctly setting the depth gauge / raker height to each tooth will enable me to continue to cut straight cuts and put firewood in the trailer, will it be slower over a day, yes, will it be less efficient, yes, is it ideal, no, but can I do it and cut straight. Yes.

If I had a stand of trees along a fence line to deal with, I would tackle the chain as per Rogue60's advice, and enjoy what it has to offer.

There is more than one way to peel a potato in Ireland.

So knowing that you can make an informed decision and decide what to do for your own situation.
Exactly, trains, I re-read your post a couple of times and could add nothing. I'm only a firewood hack with a bit of dirt and too many saws but I think you are saying "act logically, sharpen to the best of your ability, check the depth gauges especially on damaged cutters, and push on. When the chain gets pretty bad use it on stumps, when it gets real bad chuck it away"
. A discarded chain does make a good snake whip when fixed to 1/2 a tomatoe stake
 
Not trying to convince anyone of anything just pointing out one mostly over looked design feature of saw chain.
For the guys interested and may never of heard of set on saw chain.
Here's a pic looking down on a cutter I just got off the net couldn't be bothered going out the shed getting a pic of chain.
This is SET designed into saw chain by the manufacturers the more you file a cutter back the less set it has.
View attachment 934247
Good one,thanks, I've learnt to pay attention to what you and bwildered have to say
 
I make them all the same here after such an incident, but tend to be a little bit of a perfectionist with most things. I know the chain will cut OK even if they are different size cutters because I used to cut wood with a good friend (may he rest in peace) that was HORRIBLE at sharpening chains. On the left side he did OK, but on the right side the angles were back to about 25 degrees and the cutters were always shorter than on the left side. I used to give him some **** about it, but we cut hundreds of loads of wood over the years and he got by just fine with his crooked/off angle/different cutter size chains.......FWIW.......
 
The ‘proposing’ motion does not address the variation in kerf width created by different length / width cutters. This is referred to as ‘set’ in conventional saw sharpening.

All chainsaw and saw chain manufacturers that I have seen (STIHL, Oregon, etc.) recommend filing / grinding cutters to the same length in their manuals.

Philbert
The kerf is always wider than the chain width so there is always clearance for the bar to travel in a straight direction, if the uneven cutters have the correct depth gauge for the length of the tooth it will cut straight, apparently Stihl demonstrate it a field days over here with a saw that has full length teeth on one side of the chain & 9/10 filed away teeth on the other side. From my own experience I've run chains with only 3 or 4 teeth left on one side that weren't broken off and still had nearly all the teeth left on the other side and the chain was still cutting straight.
 
Make sure the bar rails are square and the rakers are close on both sides. With my bigger cc saws I sharpen the dull side as close as I can. The power will pull the unequal teeth through anyway. When I buckin. If I’m fellin I put a new chain on. If it’s close to miller time........I run it with just a quick touch up.

Another trick with a damaged dull chain is to go up one file size cut the gullet to the top of the tooth.
 
I think we've all made some valid points thus far. I do my best to keep them even, but fir all practical reasons im most made of money and those few short cutters arnt gonna stop the chain from cutting straight, and will eventually get evened out. Hence why I go back and hit the chins with the grinder to even myself back up. I know I suffer sharpening off hand, and although I take great pains to be watchful, I still end up a bit off. Chain still cuts just fine. Rarely to I get into production felling, the few times I've done it to help a friend out I didn't have any chain issues, besides the quick touch up at fuel time, fire wooding is a different animal. Lots of fence row and yard trees. Chains get beat up, sharpen, set the depth gauge and move on with life.
 
I HATE this Forum. I haven't hit a rock in years, until right after responding to this thread. Was checking out the property a few minutes ago and a decent size Ash had fallen across one of my paths. I pulled out the little Echo CS-370 and commenced to cut it up. I was very careful and even put several branches under the trunk as I cut it up and it lowered it to the ground. Then almost instantly the saw quit cutting, no chips, just smoke. Turns out I hit a HUGE chuck of sandstone that I had pushed under the trunk shoving limbs under it to keep it up off the ground.

It HOSED one side of the chain so now I get to find out how well a chain cuts with uneven cutters on it!.......
 
I HATE this Forum. I haven't hit a rock in years, until right after responding to this thread. Was checking out the property a few minutes ago and a decent size Ash had fallen across one of my paths. I pulled out the little Echo CS-370 and commenced to cut it up. I was very careful and even put several branches under the trunk as I cut it up and it lowered it to the ground. Then almost instantly the saw quit cutting, no chips, just smoke. Turns out I hit a HUGE chuck of sandstone that I had pushed under the trunk shoving limbs under it to keep it up off the ground.

It HOSED one side of the chain so now I get to find out how well a chain cuts with uneven cutters on it!.......
Keep us updated :)

Yes it’s so annoying hitting something, we’ve all been there and will all be there again!
 
has full length teeth on one side of the chain & 9/10 filed away teeth on the other side.

Having a uniform set on each side of the chain, even if they are different, is not quite the same as having random sets on each cutter.

Even if the chain still cuts straight, it does not mean that it is cutting efficiently.

Philbert
 
Having a uniform set on each side of the chain, even if they are different, is not quite the same as having random sets on each cutter.

Even if the chain still cuts straight, it does not mean that it is cutting efficiently.

Philbert
For a couple of damaged teeth & a different length it would be impossible to tell the difference, the very nature of the hit and miss cutting of the teeth into the timber hides any differences
 
For a couple of damaged teeth & a different length it would be impossible to tell the difference, the very nature of the hit and miss cutting of the teeth into the timber hides any differences
As others have said, I am not talking about measuring to a few thousands of an inch; uniform, consistent, sharpening; or an occasional, damaged cutter.

I see chains where cutters are filed to different lengths, different angles, different depth gauge settings, etc.- so far that it is hard to realize they are on the same loop! Typically, the cutting edges are also pretty messed up.

It is easier, and makes more sense, to place these on a grinder and ‘even things up’. If someone has an unevenly filed chain that cuts fine for them, I will likely never see it. Not an issue, as a practical matter.

But I doubt that you will ever see a saw racer intentionally file their cutters to different lengths. And if an average cutter sees that their chains are moving in this direction, I think that they ought to stop and consider what is going on.

Philbert
 
As others have said, I am not talking about measuring to a few thousands of an inch; uniform, consistent, sharpening; or an occasional, damaged cutter.

I see chains where cutters are filed to different lengths, different angles, different depth gauge settings, etc.- so far that it is hard to realize they are on the same loop! Typically, the cutting edges are also pretty messed up.

It is easier, and makes more sense, to place these on a grinder and ‘even things up’. If someone has an unevenly filed chain that cuts fine for them, I will likely never see it. Not an issue, as a practical matter.

But I doubt that you will ever see a saw racer intentionally file their cutters to different lengths. And if an average cutter sees that their chains are moving in this direction, I think that they ought to stop and consider what is going on.

Philbert
That’s why I use the file n guide on the upper edge. It controls the angle too.
 
All good, just thought maybe I could test something and maybe be of interest to everyone to see comparisons. If the concensus is that it probably won’t show much with what I have available then of course there isn’t any real point. I
Lots of good tests out there using the progression gauge with random teeth lengths as well long-equal-teeth on one side VS short-equall-teeth on the other. Problems will show up more on long bars with more bar in the wood with random lengths on each side. It's not a hand full of short teeth or having a chain with an extra tooth on one side that causes noticeable problems to me.
It's been a hand full of long teeth that miss being damaged on chain throws. Explanation: So if i just sharpened and then get a chain throw then i'd just file the teeth that where damaged. It's common to dust your chain on one side only. Again..I deal with what needs sharpening in these cases. Typically that is the bottom side by design of saw use that gets hit when 'brushing out' saplings and/or brush.
Depending..but I often end up with a hand full of cutters with little wear on the left (inside) and perhaps both sides when a lot of the chain is nearing the halfway-range. Now you are left with a hand full of cutters to clean up the narrower kerf wall on that side. You may start to feel/hear a slight grab and release and rev change with felling dogs set in as the dogs are making it go straight so it will disrupt the section that wants to 'turn'.
Early signs described above that you my notice in 2ft tree with a 3ft bar. Now stick it in wood that's bar size and over. It's going to bind and stop dead before long, in conjunction with the dogs.
Perhaps it is an easy fix by shortening the longest of teeth down but it won't fix by sharpening all the teeth again and setting the depth gauges. That just happens to be the time when I start to get more chain throws due to driver wear, it has no worth to me. I just put on another good chain that's ready to go and sometimes need to finish felling the tree. It's hard to get past the area were it got stuck, even without the dogs.
I'ts more likely to do with the 'set' than with the chain not working due to less degree in angle between the leading edge and raker,,which can't be fully maintained with the progressive gauge.
Iv'e heard of a Stihl rep doing a demo with P/G with one side half-filed on new chain and it was said to cut straight.

Now working in the Uk with clean small hardwood with 18" bars, you never get a chain throw or even chain derail as with bigger bars/saws
All the teeth stay close together and cut to the end without signs of issue with the P/G.


Experience is going to be different in other parts as so will your approach. Other people may take a different approach than I do in the same area but my way gets me up and running fast.
Many people cut in wood they have to sharpen every tank. I cut in lots of softwood that I could sharpen once in 6-8 litres if you didn't hit sand in the moss or have a chain throw before that.
I always ran a fast chain speed with lots of brushing and limbing so the chain sees a lot of revolutions at half a chain. Stihl was more durable than Oregon all around but harder to file in heavy rain.
 
The kerf is always wider than the chain width so there is always clearance for the bar to travel in a straight direction, if the uneven cutters have the correct depth gauge for the length of the tooth it will cut straight, apparently Stihl demonstrate it a field days over here with a saw that has full length teeth on one side of the chain & 9/10 filed away teeth on the other side. From my own experience I've run chains with only 3 or 4 teeth left on one side that weren't broken off and still had nearly all the teeth left on the other side and the chain was still cutting straight.
I have heard of Stihl's demo also but it was half one side vs full on other side. As Phibert said, that is still a 'set' chain. I had a bad batch of Windsor chain at 63 by 3/8 that I was snapping new cutters off a couple 33" chains. that still looked true minus 3 teeth on one side and one or two gone on the other. I had to pull them both and put on a worn down Stihl that was a rare one that made it down to close to even cutters. Felling mechanical for property development) Without a bit of free hand on the depth gauges, it was a bit mild for me but 10 times better than the other ones.
Think the Windsor cut straight enough for that size wood but it had no efficacy at all.

3 or 4 teeth a side you say???

Ok TOM, test that..haha
 
Good one,thanks, I've learnt to pay attention to what you and bwildered have to say
I'm just sharing the little I know cutting our hardwoods there are lots of blokes that know more than me about chain.
I've learnt a lot about chain reading on the internet's from the guys that are into play/race chain IMHO doing that teaches you all you need to know about chain. For fun I've made some fast chains and snapped a few removing to much material lol
My dad was a pro faller in hardwoods that's who I learnt the importance of keeping ya chain uniform from.
I should get a vid of him filing he's only filed a chain about a million times lol
 
I have heard of Stihl's demo also but it was half one side vs full on other side. As Phibert said, that is still a 'set' chain. I had a bad batch of Windsor chain at 63 by 3/8 that I was snapping new cutters off a couple 33" chains. that still looked true minus 3 teeth on one side and one or two gone on the other. I had to pull them both and put on a worn down Stihl that was a rare one that made it down to close to even cutters. Felling mechanical for property development) Without a bit of free hand on the depth gauges, it was a bit mild for me but 10 times better than the other ones.
Think the Windsor cut straight enough for that size wood but it had no efficacy at all.

3 or 4 teeth a side you say???

Ok TOM, test that..haha
Bout time you chimed in
 
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