Sharpening chain

[roger a. hendrix]

I would like to know how to sharpen my chain, best angle, and tilt to get a 3/8 chain to have shaven burs an inch long and cut with ease. I am using a 30-degree angle and tilt of 60, but the burs are very short. I have an uncle that sharpens with a 45-degree angle, but sharpens by hand and I use an Oregon electric bench grinder?

 

[Philbert]

Not sure what you mean by “burs“. Do you mean the wood “chips“ that are removed by each cutter?

Generally, you can create the same cutter angles with a file or with a grinder. However, if your uncle is filing at 45°, he may be doing what’s called “square filing“ which only works on certain types of chains, and requires special files or special grinders.

If you search for “square filing“ or “square grinding“ in this forum, you will find many ,many threads on that topic.

Philbert

 

[roger a. hendrix]

Thanks, Phil getting back to me, I just know that the wood chips that come out of the back of the saw are at least an inch long, and he doesn't have to apply any pressure on the saw to cut, it goes right through the wood at ease. I have an Oregon electric bench grinder model 520-14. I use a 3/8 chain on a Stihl MS390 and a Stihl saw 460 Magnum. I have the grinder set at 30-degree angle and tilt at 60. The saw cuts ok, but what would you suggest to set the angle and tilt at to get the best cutting results. Thanks

 

[blades]

you could try 55 degs tilt on the head ( gives a sharper edge, won't last as long) but it is very important to keep your wheel dressed to the proper shape shape with either setting. after say a 55 link chain the edge of the wheel contacting the the cutter will be flattened off, leaving your top plate almost square, it will still cut but will require effort on your part. Second half of this is the depth gauges ( or rakers) you need to check them with a gauge and lower them accordingly ( note a lot of the gauges that come with various grinders are a bit to deep, side plates, and contact other parts of the vise area giving a false reading. I also have a couple gauges , as currently supplied with new units, that all the various depth settings on them mike the same. I did check them externally and internally. these are just a piece of channel steel with markings stamp on them and slots for the depth gauge to stick up through. )

 

[Philbert]

I have an Oregon electric bench grinder model 520-14. . . . I have the grinder set at 30-degree angle and tilt at 60. The saw cuts ok, but what would you suggest to set the angle and tilt at to get the best cutting results

That's a nice grinder, and you should be able to get good results. Not to sound evasive, but having that grinder gives you a great advantage over specifying angles: it lets you experiment with your chains, and your saw, and your type of cutting, in your wood! Try different settings and see if you notice a difference (positive or negative), and develop your own 'recipe'!

As @blades notes above, Oregon recommends a 55° head tilt angle, as well as a 10° 'down angle' on many chains. 25° is often recommended for harder (and frozen!) woods. 35° is often recommended for softer woods. No reason you can't use 27-1/2° if that works for you! Also experiment (carefully) with different depth gauge settings (once you remove more, it's hard to put it back!). Then get back to use and let us know what you find!

As for competing with your uncle, check to see if you are also using the same chains: 'full-chisel' chains will normally cut faster, but dull faster in dirty wood. 'Semi-chisel' cutters will cut slower, but keep going. I use the analogy of high-speed tires and all-season radials: the first are fun, until it rains. Different brands of chains can affect performance too.

But ask him if he is 'square filing': that will often produce longer chips, especially in soft wood, but is a whole thing on its own.

Philbert

 

[roger a. hendrix]

That's a nice grinder, and you should be able to get good results. Not to sound evasive, but having that grinder gives you a great advantage over specifying angles: it lets you experiment with your chains, and your saw, and your type of cutting, in your wood! Try different settings and see if you notice a difference (positive or negative), and develop your own 'recipe'!

As @blades notes above, Oregon recommends a 55° head tilt angle, as well as a 10° 'down angle' on many chains. 25° is often recommended for harder (and frozen!) woods. 35° is often recommended for softer woods. No reason you can't use 27-1/2° if that works for you! Also experiment (carefully) with different depth gauge settings (once you remove more, it's hard to put it back!). Then get back to use and let us know what you find!

As for competing with your uncle, check to see if you are also using the same chains: 'full-chisel' chains will normally cut faster, but dull faster in dirty wood. 'Semi-chisel' cutters will cut slower, but keep going. I use the analogy of high-speed tires and all-season radials: the first are fun, until it rains. Different brands of chains can affect performance too.

But ask him if he is 'square filing': that will often produce longer chips, especially in soft wood, but is a whole thing on its own.

Philbert

That's a nice grinder, and you should be able to get good results. Not to sound evasive, but having that grinder gives you a great advantage over specifying angles: it lets you experiment with your chains, and your saw, and your type of cutting, in your wood! Try different settings and see if you notice a difference (positive or negative), and develop your own 'recipe'!

As @blades notes above, Oregon recommends a 55° head tilt angle, as well as a 10° 'down angle' on many chains. 25° is often recommended for harder (and frozen!) woods. 35° is often recommended for softer woods. No reason you can't use 27-1/2° if that works for you! Also experiment (carefully) with different depth gauge settings (once you remove more, it's hard to put it back!). Then get back to use and let us know what you find!

As for competing with your uncle, check to see if you are also using the same chains: 'full-chisel' chains will normally cut faster, but dull faster in dirty wood. 'Semi-chisel' cutters will cut slower, but keep going. I use the analogy of high-speed tires and all-season radials: the first are fun, until it rains. Different brands of chains can affect performance too.

But ask him if he is 'square filing': that will often produce longer chips, especially in soft wood, but is a whole thing on its own.

Philbert

 

[roger a. hendrix]

I didn't know there was such a thing as square filing, I will ask him when I see him. I saw where using the 10 degrees

you could try 55 degs tilt on the head ( gives a sharper edge, won't last as long) but it is very important to keep your wheel dressed to the proper shape shape with either setting. after say a 55 link chain the edge of the wheel contacting the the cutter will be flattened off, leaving your top plate almost square, it will still cut but will require effort on your part. Second half of this is the depth gauges ( or rakers) you need to check them with a gauge and lower them accordingly ( note a lot of the gauges that come with various grinders are a bit to deep, side plates, and contact other parts of the vise area giving a false reading. I also have a couple gauges , as currently supplied with new units, that all the various depth settings on them mike the same. I did check them externally and internally. these are just a piece of channel steel with markings stamp on them and slots for the depth gauge to stick up through. )

That's a nice grinder, and you should be able to get good results. Not to sound evasive, but having that grinder gives you a great advantage over specifying angles: it lets you experiment with your chains, and your saw, and your type of cutting, in your wood! Try different settings and see if you notice a difference (positive or negative), and develop your own 'recipe'!

As @blades notes above, Oregon recommends a 55° head tilt angle, as well as a 10° 'down angle' on many chains. 25° is often recommended for harder (and frozen!) woods. 35° is often recommended for softer woods. No reason you can't use 27-1/2° if that works for you! Also experiment (carefully) with different depth gauge settings (once you remove more, it's hard to put it back!). Then get back to use and let us know what you find!

As for competing with your uncle, check to see if you are also using the same chains: 'full-chisel' chains will normally cut faster, but dull faster in dirty wood. 'Semi-chisel' cutters will cut slower, but keep going. I use the analogy of high-speed tires and all-season radials: the first are fun, until it rains. Different brands of chains can affect performance too.

But ask him if he is 'square filing': that will often produce longer chips, especially in soft wood, but is a whole thing on its own.

Philbert

down angle, I will try that also, and let you know. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

I didn't know there was such a thing as square filing, I will ask him when I see him. I saw where using the 10 degrees
down angle, I will try that also, and let you know. Thanks

Square filing / grinding is its own rabbit hole. You can search for one of the many threads on it here (Google 'Arboristsite Square Filing', 'Arboristsite Square Grinding' instead of using the A.S. search function). Way too much to summarize in a few words, other than it only works with certain types of chain cutters; requires different files or grinders; uses different angles; and takes longer to master. Probably only 2% or less of chainsaw users square file (my estimate).

Check out your Oregon 520 grinder manual for setting the down angle if you want to try that.

Philbert

 

[thenne1713]

I would like to know how to sharpen my chain, best angle, and tilt to get a 3/8 chain to have shaven burs an inch long and cut with ease. I am using a 30-degree angle and tilt of 60, but the burs are ; very short. I have an uncle that sharpens with a 45-degree angle, but sharpens by hand and I use an Oregon electric bench grinder?

The length of chip depends on wood TYPE and cutter BAR angle; cherry will give long strings when ripping with bar (close to parallel) to log, but crosscutting chips can be no longer than distance between rings in the log. Pine w/ big growth between rings will give longer chips than most oak? Hope this helps?

 

[thenne1713]

I would like to know how to sharpen my chain, best angle, and tilt to get a 3/8 chain to have shaven burs an inch long and cut with ease. I am using a 30-degree angle and tilt of 60, but the burs are very short. I have an uncle that sharpens with a 45-degree angle, but sharpens by hand and I use an Oregon electric bench grinder?

VERIFY CHAIN AND FIE SIZE AND Get the 2-in-1 file and do CUTTER AND DEPTH in same stroke? https://www.ebay.com/itm/3636061376...1291&msclkid=7946dc7963b31976ea18bdf6381ece0f

 

[Dudders]

VERIFY CHAIN AND FIE SIZE AND Get the 2-in-1 file and do CUTTER AND DEPTH in same stroke? https://www.ebay.com/itm/3636061376...1291&msclkid=7946dc7963b31976ea18bdf6381ece0f

Love the comment someone put in the feedback for that product:
"Using this sharpener is quick, easy, and prevents from having to constantly tighten the chain due to it becoming too dull." Dang - all these years I've been tightening the chain to make it cut better...

Watch out with that one though - it's Chinese-made. But coloured to look like Stihl, and note how the seller says 'for Stihl'.

Here's another one that actually is Stihl, so twice the price, but likely to last 20 years longer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294544361373?hash=item449436479d:g:~6AAAOSwzPxhjzyD
Does anyone have experience of whether these tools are any good? I've never used one, but just naturally cynical, I guess.

 

[Philbert]

Does anyone have experience of whether these tools are any good? I've never used one, but just naturally cynical, I guess.

Several threads on these. Some guys like them because they are easy. No ability to get custom angles, depth gauge settings, etc. We use them with chainsaw volunteers.

Philbert

 

[Dudders]

Ah yes - checked that out. Natural cynicism wins again.

 

[NewBeeNY]

I would like to know how to sharpen my chain, best angle, and tilt to get a 3/8 chain to have shaven burs an inch long and cut with ease. I am using a 30-degree angle and tilt of 60, but the burs are very short. I have an uncle that sharpens with a 45-degree angle, but sharpens by hand and I use an Oregon electric bench grinder?

I use the Stihl 2 and 1 sharpener and it works great. You sharpen the tooth and the rakes in 1 shot try it out you will love it

 

[olddude]

I've tried several of those gismos that hold the file but I never could get the chain just right with them. Even sending the chains out to have them sharpened with a machine sometime you don't get good results. I don't send them out anymore unless I have a fairly new chain that has had a run in with a big nail or spike that's buried in the wood. I have found over the years that if you sharpen before the chain gets dull they will last longer. I got in the habit of hitting the chain lightly every time I fill up with gas and bar oil.

With my .044 stihl I have cut a lot of firewood by the time she run's out of gas and most of the time all I need to do in just hit each tooth one pass and it's good to go. I just follow the shape that is on the tooth and don't get too aggressive with it to where it changes the angle you are looking for. If you wait until the chain gets dull then you most of the time you will have to really get after it to get it back in shape. A good sharp chain is easier on the saw engine, you, the bar and you won't go through as much gas. It will also help to keep the chain tight on the bar where the chain lube is.

 

[Campin' Cutter]

The length of chip depends on wood TYPE and cutter BAR angle; cherry will give long strings when ripping with bar (close to parallel) to log, but crosscutting chips can be no longer than distance between rings in the log. Pine w/ big growth between rings will give longer chips than most oak? Hope this helps?

This is exactly right in my experience. Soft woods like pine give nice long chips and hardwoods like the mesquite I cut are much shorter. As for your angles, it depends on your chain. The oregon website as well as the manual for your bench grinder will tell you what oregon recommendeds for your type of chain. I've found no real reason to deviate from what Oregon publishes, at least for my needs.

 

[thenne1713]

Love the comment someone put in the feedback for that product:
"Using this sharpener is quick, easy, and prevents from having to constantly tighten the chain due to it becoming too dull." Dang - all these years I've been tightening the chain to make it cut better...

Watch out with that one though - it's Chinese-made. But coloured to look like Stihl, and note how the seller says 'for Stihl'.

Here's another one that actually is Stihl, so twice the price, but likely to last 20 years longer:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294544361373?hash=item449436479d:g:~6AAAOSwzPxhjzyD
Does anyone have experience of whether these tools are any good? I've never used one, but just naturally cynical, I guess.

i HAVE THE CHEAP ONES, LIKE them better than standard hand files w/ guide; WOULD TRY the German STIHL 2-in-1, but not finding any, even at dealers?

 

[NewBeeNY]

i HAVE THE CHEAP ONES, LIKE them better than standard hand files w/ guide; WOULD TRY the German STIHL 2-in-1, but not finding any, even at dealers?

Check Amazon

 

[copen]

https://www.pferd.com/us-en/product...g/1-8-chain-sharp-csx-w-round-and-flat-files/Got this one from Amazon, $30+ about a year ago. Less than that now. It's my understanding Pferd makes the Stihl version.
Works great.

 

[thenne1713]

Check Amazon

NOTHING ON AMAZON SAYS THEY ARE GENUINE STIHL vs knockoff counterfeit Chinese that (color scheme) "looks like Stihl"; sadly, there is no regard for PATENTS by Chinese knockoffs, and .gov appears to no longer care to enforce patents any more than they do the borders? I do not mind a knockoff sometimes, on an EXPIRED patent, if I BUY it KNOWING is an inferior knockoff (maybe only plan to use once/ twice?)