Shorted delivery

[dingeryote]

RCR,

Trophyhunter nailed it. get ahold of the Atty generals office Monday morning. Make sure to save any and all correspondence, and provide them with pics and dimensions of the delivered wood. A LOT of the wood sellers in that area are used to selling to the FOPs and citiots who don't know any better, or even bother to measure.

Ripping people off is unacceptable.

 

[Patrick62]

I feel your pain. For two cords I use a 2 ton truck with a 14 foot bed 7 feet wide. with sides 3.5 feet high. Tossed in loose, and 343 cubic feet at 160 per cord makes it 2.14 cords, or about 7% over. I have never shorted anybody. Plenty of people up here stack the wood up.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Michigan's office of the Attorney General takes complaints with fraudulent firewood sellers seriously. Submit a complaint here: http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-17331-42077--,00.html

Thanks will file a complaint

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

I feel your pain. For two cords I use a 2 ton truck with a 14 foot bed 7 feet wide. with sides 3.5 feet high. Tossed in loose, and 343 cubic feet at 160 per cord makes it 2.14 cords, or about 7% over. I have never shorted anybody. Plenty of people up here stack the wood up.

Decades ago when we delivered wood with our small utility trailer 4'x8' inside dimensions and it held only 1 face cord weight wise also. We put the wood inside the trailer tightly packed but we always added a layer on top in case the buyer stacked it a bit tighter. I don't know how since we couldn't add sticks between the logs. We have used this method from mid 70's until last year when my dad stopped delivering. We never had anybody claim short piles. I get 2 loads from 2 different people and get shorted each time, these people just do NOT have any business sense. Bad publicity can kill a business. Was I supposed to pay sales tax on the wood?

The more I think about situation the madder I get, I was overcharged about $200 so now I have to spend another $200 to purchase wood what I should have received in the first place. I am not rich to throw money around, we are just barely scraping by. Paying for firewood is a double hit since our property is over run with blowdowns since I cannot cut anymore and my wife and I, she does the cutting, have not been able to get to property to bring the wood home to us. Then we get ripped off to boot.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

RCR, email him one more time letting him know you are going to contact MI weghts and measures. did some research and MI follows federal regs as far as how firewood is sold.ie cord or fraction thereof.no facecords.couldn't find anything as far as exact law but did about 1/2 hour of searching and found that. good luck.

I emailed him on Thursday before I wrote this thread. I got numerous responses from members regarding this thread but so far nothing from the owner of the business on email. If he was concerned about the situation he would have called by now. Prior to sale I wrote him an email he called me within 1 day to answer my questions and point me to you tube videos of operations. He then called several more times to set up drop off time when my wife and I were present to help with garage door opening. After I told him of short delivery he has not called back. I sent him photos of the stack and measurements,still nothing. Complaint will be filed.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Decades ago when we delivered wood with our small utility trailer 4'x8' inside dimensions and it held only 1 face cord weight wise also. We put the wood inside the trailer tightly packed but we always added a layer on top in case the buyer stacked it a bit tighter. I don't know how since we couldn't add sticks between the logs. We have used this method from mid 70's until last year when my dad stopped delivering. We never had anybody claim short piles. I get 2 loads from 2 different people and get shorted each time, these people just do NOT have any business sense. Bad publicity can kill a business. Was I supposed to pay sales tax on the wood?

The more I think about situation the madder I get, I was overcharged about $200 so now I have to spend another $200 to purchase wood what I should have received in the first place. I am not rich to throw money around, we are just barely scraping by. Paying for firewood is a double hit since our property is over run with blowdowns since I cannot cut anymore and my wife and I, she does the cutting, have not been able to get to property to bring the wood home to us. Then we get ripped off to boot.

Wow man, that really sucks. It's too bad I didn't live closer. I'd help cut and split no charge just to help an old dude out. Got any AS members out in your neck of the woods? It's too bad that guy shorted your order. He's probably not even aware of how he shot himself in the foot as far as future business goes. Getting stonewalled by him only adds insult to injury.

 

[trophyhunter]

Thanks will file a complaint

You'll find the AG's office to be much more proactive than weights and measures with regards to firewood shortages. W&M's won't do anything in a he said ~ he said issue, and there's no metering device on firewood delivery vehicles to demonstrate otherwise. Don't expect them to actually think outside the box and do their job evaluating the quantity of wood you have stacked and clearly and properly identified . If it doesn't have a meter or scale backing up a claim, they aren't going to help you.

If you have a sales invoice from them or other proof of payment stating quantity bought/sold you clearly have everything in the form of documentation already posted in this thread needed for a simple trip to the small claims court. Were it me, I'd head to small claims first thing Monday and file for a hearing date and contact the AG's office as well. You'll likely get contacted by the seller when they get served papers. You can always cancel the hearing date with the clerk if they make it right and re-reimburse you for your time and filing expense or otherwise to your satisfaction.

 

[newb]

I'm sorry but if your stacking your wood 5' high, then thats not a face cord. If your packing a full cord 4X8X5 then your next face is only 1' high. Thats the way my math works, your asking for extra wood. Pete

 

[Steve NW WI]

Was I supposed to pay sales tax on the wood?

Depends on your state, but it's not your problem. It's not your obligation to pay it, it's the seller's to collect it at the time of sale.

I'm sorry but if your stacking your wood 5' high, then thats not a face cord. If your packing a full cord 4X8X5 then your next face is only 1' high. Thats the way my math works, your asking for extra wood. Pete

Please read. He's measured, and converted the measurements to actual cords. 5' high might as well be a face cord, it's not legally defined. A cord is, however. 4x4x8 or 128CF, well stacked.

 

[Jim Timber]

There's an allowed air space in cord wood measurement. I forget what the percentage is, but flat stacking in tight rows is going to be volumetrically more efficient than cross stacking like most folks do putting it up to dry - both methods result in a "legal" cord, even though one would contain far more wood than the other.

There's plenty to be mad about, even if stacked differently worked out to being proper measures. He doesn't want to make it right by his lack of response, so the obvious end result is to cease doing business with him.

Next time: "delivered, stacked, and filling your rack" should be the agreed upon terms. Make it a contract via bill of sale, and don't pay until it's been fulfilled. That way it doesn't matter what either of you call it, it's easily discerned what amount of wood is being bought/sold.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I gotta finish my "legal definition of firewood measure" chart. Maybe when I get back from town.

 

[lapeer20m]

Where in mi do you live? If we are near each other I am willing to come process some of your firewood for you.

 

[blackdogon57]

I feel your pain. For two cords I use a 2 ton truck with a 14 foot bed 7 feet wide. with sides 3.5 feet high. Tossed in loose, and 343 cubic feet at 160 per cord makes it 2.14 cords, or about 7% over. I have never shorted anybody. Plenty of people up here stack the wood up.

http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/index.php?topic=Agriculture News&id=4554&v=Article

According to this article you would actually be shorting your customers if using 160 cubic feet to measure a loose cord. I have a trailer that is 8x14 with sides about the same height and I can just barely get two full cords on cut at 14".

 

[Jim Timber]

MN regs: "A cord has a specific legal definition in Minnesota: One cord is 128 cubic feet in four foot lengths.  If the wood is sawed, a cord is 110 cubic feet when ranked, or 160 cubic feet when thrown loosely into a truck.  If the wood is sawed and split, a cord is 120 cubic feet when ranked, and 175 cubic feet when thrown loosely into a truck. Minnesota Statutes, Section 239.33"

It also turns out your stacking is the legal method. No wonder he's not calling you back.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Where in mi do you live? If we are near each other I am willing to come process some of your firewood for you.

Get at least 4+ guys together and give this guy a helping hand! With that many guys a lot will be done in short order!

 

[Jim Timber]

If you were closer, I've got a solid cord of ash 3 years put up that just needs splitting I'd give ya.

 

[greendohn]

that guy sounds like a thief.
you guys offering help are some good guys!!

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

I'm sorry but if your stacking your wood 5' high, then thats not a face cord. If your packing a full cord 4X8X5 then your next face is only 1' high. Thats the way my math works, your asking for extra wood. Pete

Look at the Sutter county firewood calculator above for stack dimensions. one pile is 52" high and 96" long, therefore only avg. 4" above the 4ft and 8ft long. The other 2 piles are avg. 60 inches high and 99 inches long in other words 1 ft above 4ft and 3" over 96" length. The other stack is above the 3 rows and is 32 inches deep x 43" long and 22" high this pile is far short of a face cord dimensionand unsupported on sides so it is sloped on sides not squared off.
Where are the other face cords I ordered? I ordered 6 face cords or 2 cords !!!!!!! Only 1.357 was delivered. Your math is the same the quality firewood then. Put in the values of my stack dimensions listed in above image for Sutter County firewood cord calculator and http://www.maine.gov/ag/firewood.html The calculations of shortfall will be very very close to the same amount.

 

[flotek]

I had same thing happen to me this year .. Paid 400$ for 3 cords delivered and after it was all stacked out it wasn't but a little over 1.5 cords in my wood shed . I will probably never have it brought in again . I'll cut it all myself or buy pallets of eco bricks before I get shafted again

 

[Cerran]

When I purchased firewood over 10 years my rule was the the person who delivered it would bring it in a truck tightly stacked and I would help throw it off. I took measurements of the truck prior to delivery and we agreed what the exact volume was before I paid them. I sent a couple unhappy sellers home when they tried to short me.