Speed Sharp Star Setup Problems

[InTheFlow]

Hey Ya'll.

I just got my Speed Sharp Star from Baileys and was hoping someone could help me fit the grinding wheel.

How the heck do you hold the motor still so that you can remove the bolt and flange? :monkey: There should be something like on regular saws that lets you lock it so you can do that kind of thing more easily.

My other question is what do I do with the Arm securing nut? The diagram seems to show it going between the washer and the knob but that doesn't make sense. Is it only to be used for wall mounting?

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
I've seen some of them where they put something on the threads. I usually just grab the shaft with a pliers or channel locks to get the bolt out. Once you remove it take something and clean the threads on the bolt. Then before you put the wheel on, run the screw in and out a couple times so that it will bottom out with little resistance (a little WD might help). From that point on, you should be able to install and remove the wheel just by holding the wheel to prevent the arbor flange from turning.
The handle bolt sticks through the wheel housing from the inside out, then put the nut on the outside and tighten it. Then screw the handle on to the bolt.
Regards
Gregg

 

[InTheFlow]

Thank you for the help Gregg!

The handle bolt sticks through the wheel housing from the inside out, then put the nut on the outside and tighten it. Then screw the handle on to the bolt.
Regards
Gregg

If I put the nut on before the handle there isn't much bolt left for the handle to grab onto. Additionally, if I put both on, I'd then have to loosen the nut in addition to the handle before adjusting the up/down tilt. With just the handle all I do is loosen...adjust...then tighten. However, if it was mounted to the wall there wouldn't be enough room for the handle. I guess I'll see if I run into any issues while using the handle first.

Thanks again!:greenchainsaw:

 

[mtngun]

How the heck do you hold the motor still so that you can remove the bolt and flange? :monkey: There should be something like on regular saws that lets you lock it so you can do that kind of thing more easily.

Chase the threads. I believe it is 6mm. The factory ships it with an interference fit on the threads, so you have to fight that bolt every step of the way . Once you chase the threads, changing the wheel is painless.

My review of the Jolly Star (same as Speed Sharp) here. It is a good grinder, does a good job, but the vice is fragile and will break if you open it too far. Only 1/8 turn of the handle is required to open and close the vice. Be gentle with the vice handle, and remember, 1/8 turn.

 

[InTheFlow]

Thanks mtngun, great idea! I tried using WD-40 on the threads, screwing and un-screwing the bolt but it still felt 'rough'. Your explanation makes sense to me. I'll try it the next time I take off the wheel.

I ran into another problem I was hoping someone could help with as well.

:newbie:

The angles seem to be 'off' (or I've set it up incorrectly) because when the wheel grinds, it's not lined up with (what I think are) the original angles. Is it normal for this sharpener to be 'off'? One of the reasons I bought this model is because it was supposed to be correct without needing to modify the tool. I did verify that the wheel's shape itself is correct using the orange gauge that it came with.

Should the sharpened top plate edge match the angle line on the top of the tooth? So far, my understanding is that if I set the bottom part in or out 10 degrees then I use the marks to the left and right of the zero mark to line up the left or right movements. But which one, the one on the left or the one on the right?

What does it mean when a chain shows 55/60 degrees for the top angle? Which do you choose, and why?

 

[MCW]

That thread locking compound they use (and MAXX used as well) is an absolute pain in the arse and completely unnecessary. It caused me grief too mate and I had to hang onto the shaft with a set of vice grips too so it could be undone. As mentioned I chased the threads with a tap as well and used a little oil. The bolt has come out and gone in easily ever since - no need to hang onto the shaft at all.

As far as angles go it's difficult to explain without pictures, I'll try to post some tonight if you're still stuck as I'm about to head off for work now (7.45am here - 04th May).

If using full chisel and you wish to sharpen the left hand side cutters you need to have the table set at 10° towards you. When doing right hand cutters set table at 10° away from you. Watch the depth of the grinding wheel as when using 10° it's easy to gring into the tie strap if you dive into the gullet too much - no biggy but means you've gone to deep.
As far as your 55°/60° question that's a matter of preference, 60° being more agressive but also bluntening slightly faster - not a real concern in clean green wood. I currently use 55° (which is the head angle - the angles on the back, upright part of the chassis that moves the whole grinder head side to side). The reason I use 55° is that it replicates a 7/32" file angle better and when filing in the field you don't have to file as long to shape the tooth to match a file.
Angles are a funny one - as long as the angles on both sides match without touching any adjustments then you have a good and well setup grinder. I have the Speed Sharp Auto grinder and as far as I am aware am unable to adjust any errors (mine has none luckily!). Philbert on this site showed how angles can be adjusted on the standard manual viced Tecomec grinders. It worked for a few people from memory.
Good luck mate and they are good grinders, same as Oregon and a few others, just different colours

 

[InTheFlow]

As far as angles go it's difficult to explain without pictures, I'll try to post some tonight if you're still stuck as I'm about to head off for work now (7.45am here - 04th May).

Thanks for taking the time to reply Matt!

If using full chisel and you wish to sharpen the left hand side cutters you need to have the table set at 10° towards you. When doing right hand cutters set table at 10° away from you. Watch the depth of the grinding wheel as when using 10° it's easy to grind into the tie strap if you dive into the gullet too much - no biggy but means you've gone to deep.

Yep, using full chisel chain. Which mark do you go with when setting the vice angle? The one to the left or right of the zero mark?

As far as your 55°/60° question that's a matter of preference, 60° being more aggressive but also blunting slightly faster - not a real concern in clean green wood. I currently use 55° (which is the head angle - the angles on the back, upright part of the chassis that moves the whole grinder head side to side). The reason I use 55° is that it replicates a 7/32" file angle better and when filing in the field you don't have to file as long to shape the tooth to match a file.

I was wondering if that might be a preference type thing so thanks for the clarification.

Angles are a funny one - as long as the angles on both sides match without touching any adjustments then you have a good and well setup grinder.

This seems to be my problem. One side isn't the same as the other when I move to the opposite cutters. I always have to re-adjust and I thought I wasn't supposed to have to do so with this grinder...?

Good luck mate and they are good grinders, same as Oregon and a few others, just different colors

Well, maybe mine has a jacked up part. Could my issues be a result of a improperly machined vice assembly? I do notice that it is _really_ hard to adjust the tilt in and out on mine.

 

[MCW]

You may have something wrong for it to have inconsistent angles like that. I have had two Speed Sharp Autos now, the first one was replaced after a hydraulic hose/cylinder started leaking.
Both have been good with their angles. I think you should take it back to where you got it and complain, you may get a new grinder. Unfortunately no matter what brand you can always get a dud. With modern CNC and castings etc you really shouldn't.
The table on both the Speed Sharps I had were also tight to slide. I used powdered graphite and they are very good now.

 

[mtngun]

Which mark do you go with when setting the vice angle? The one to the left or right of the zero mark?

Since I am old and senile and can't remember these things from one day to the next I added some memory aids to my Jolly Star.

Mark your vise "R" and "L" like this. In the pic, it happens to be set up for the cutters on the right side of the chain.

Mark "L" and "R" here. The "R" mark is hidden underneath the handle and it is a royal pain to set. I have to get down on my knees and shine a flashlight on the mark.

There are two marks for this angle, depending on whether the vise tilt is 10 degrees or zero degrees. Here it is set at 60 degrees for the 10 degree vise tilt.

One side isn't the same as the other when I move to the opposite cutters. I always have to re-adjust and I thought I wasn't supposed to have to do so with this grinder...?

Sometimes I make minor adjustments when I move to the opposite cutters. The two things that may need tweaking are the depth of cut and the cutter length.

Actually, with a brand new chain, you shouldn't have to tweak the cutter length. But, on a used chain, sometimes the cutters will be longer on one side than the other, probably due to a previous sharpening job. Then you have to decide if you want to make them equal length, which may require grinding more off one side than the other, or if you just want to lightly graze the cutter and not be anal about the length.

Be very careful with the two vise angle adjustments because just being off a smidge may result in unequal length cutters.

Could my issues be a result of a improperly machined vice assembly? I do notice that it is _really_ hard to adjust the tilt in and out on mine.

My tilt was uncooperative, too. I took it apart and doused both surfaces with dry moly lube. It's better now, though still not exactly slick, and probably never will be "slick" because grinding dust finds its way in there.

There is a learning curve to using these grinders. You'll get better with practice.

 

[InTheFlow]

Thanks for the info. I got it at Baileys though so returning it won't work too well. I also already chucked the box it came in.

I'm hoping that if we can narrow the issue down to a specific part of the unit, maybe they can help me get in touch with the precision tooling people and they can replace it under warranty or something.

 

[mtngun]

Before you jump to any conclusions about the grinder being defective, practice using it for a while and get comfortable with the set up.

 

[InTheFlow]

Wow, thanks for those pictures mtngun! Great idea putting the marks on them. Only thing I need to figure out now is which line to use under the handle. I'm not at home at the moment so I can't put up a picture of what I'm talking about yet.

Sometimes I make minor adjustments when I move to the opposite cutters. The two things that may need tweaking are the depth of cut and the cutter length.

My tilt was uncooperative, too. I took it apart and doused both surfaces with dry moly lube. It's better now, though still not exactly slick, and probably never will be "slick" because grinding dust finds its way in there.

Here's my 'thing'...these are not 'cheap-o' grinders and they are made by a company with 'Precision' as part of their name. We pay a premium for them over and above the the knock offs' prices. Therefore, its reasonable to hold them to a higher standard.

So while I understand that there will be a learning curve to sharpen a chain 'just right' I think the grinder itself should work properly out of the box. For just under 4 bones, you shouldn't have to lubricate the tilt to get it to work properly. Similarly, if you line up the lines properly when switching sides, it should keep its accuracy.

 

[mtngun]

Only thing I need to figure out now is which line to use under the handle.

The lines under the handle are not visible in this picture, but I highlighted the Left/Right marks for emphasis.

If you have the vise tilted 10 degrees, use the Left/Right marks under the handle. Use the Left mark when you are grinding the left side cutters, use the Right mark when you are grinding the right side cutters.

If you have the vise tilt at zero degrees, use the Center mark under the handle.

If the tilt angle issues are too confusing for you, just leave the tilt at zero degrees and then you don't have to mess with it. A lot of people do it that way.

 

[MCW]

Here's my 'thing'...these are not 'cheap-o' grinders and they are made by a company with 'Precision' as part of their name. We pay a premium for them over and above the the knock offs' prices. Therefore, its reasonable to hold them to a higher standard.

So while I understand that there will be a learning curve to sharpen a chain 'just right' I think the grinder itself should work properly out of the box. For just under 4 bones, you shouldn't have to lubricate the tilt to get it to work properly. Similarly, if you line up the lines properly when switching sides, it should keep its accuracy.

I agree 100% and this was my main complaint about my MAXX before I quite happily sold it after buying a Speed Sharp and finding it kicks the MAXX's arse.
All that a grinder has to be is symmetrical for it to be accurate from side to side. Not a difficult task really however the play on some turntables is quite shocking. My MAXX was awful, especially considering it was a "premium" unit.
I am concerned that some of these grinders are now being manufactured for a price, it's just that the low price isn't being passed onto the consumer.
One thing that I found with the MAXX that helped was to ensure the turntable was even and square with the base when it was tightened - it had a habit of twisting on the frame due to the poor fit.

 

[InTheFlow]

The lines under the handle are not visible in this picture, but I highlighted the Left/Right marks for emphasis.

If you have the vise tilted 10 degrees, use the Left/Right marks under the handle. Use the Left mark when you are grinding the left side cutters, use the Right mark when you are grinding the right side cutters.

I was able to take a picture.

So what your saying is that since the angle is turned to the right, I'm sharpening the Left Hand teeth. Which means if I have the tilt adjusted I would use the mark to the left to line up and set the degrees. Is that correct?

 

[MCW]

So what your saying is that since the angle is turned to the right, I'm sharpening the Left Hand teeth. Which means if I have the tilt adjusted I would use the mark to the left to line up and set the degrees. Is that correct?

That would be correct. If wanting to sharpen full chisel at 10° the vice table would be moved to the 10° mark towards the back of the grinder for the left hand cutters. Towards you 10° when sharpening the right hand cutters.

 

[InTheFlow]

That would be correct. If wanting to sharpen full chisel at 10° the vice table would be moved to the 10° mark towards the back of the grinder for the left hand cutters. Towards you 10° when sharpening the right hand cutters.

OK, I do believe I'm starting to get it. Essentially, I'm matching the marks on the tilt with the base. (Tilt back and the left mark is lined up so I'd use the left mark on the base too.) Sorry it took me so long to get that guys.

I'm going to sharpen another chain and measure the left and right cutters to see if the grinder actually is off or not. To do so I would measure the length of the teeth after being ground & make sure they are the same, correct?

 

[mtngun]

I'm going to sharpen another chain and measure the left and right cutters to see if the grinder actually is off or not. To do so I would measure the length of the teeth after being ground & make sure they are the same, correct?

Correct.

And again, very minor errors in your tilt or angle settings can cause the cutter lengths to be unequal. Or even differences in your "technique" as you pull the grinder down to the cutter.

 

[MCW]

Correct.

And again, very minor errors in your tilt or angle settings can cause the cutter lengths to be unequal. Or even differences in your "technique" as you pull the grinder down to the cutter.

Yeah thats right mate, even the pro grinders still have some head flex. Consistent technique is the key.

 

[lumberjackmoe]

10 degree tilt angle

The way that I was explained to which way to tilt for the 10 degree angle is to move the base so that the point on the tooth that is being sharpened moves DOWN. Another way to explain it is to tilt the base so that the tooth being sharpened tilts away from the vice or to the outside from the vice. Left hand cutters tooth tilts to the rear of the grinder and the right hand cutter tooth tilts to the front of the grinder. I am late on my reply but I just purchased a knock off Oregon grinder from NT. It does a fantastic job.