splitter log lift question

[pat_58]

hi.

first post here. great site!

i built my own wood splitter. it has 10.5 hp wisconsin robin engine, 16 gpm pump, hydraulic cylinder is 4 inch bore. it runs good, and i was thinking of adding a log lift. i know enough about hyraulics to build a splitter, but no expert by any means. my question is, if i put let's say a 2 inch bore hydraulic cylinder to drive the lift, will the 16 gpm pump cause the lift to go up too quickly and be quite jerky? what should i be doing to try and "match" the cylinder to the rest of the system? also, i have a single detent valve from northern tool on there now. can i add another one of these right before the current one, or do i need to add some kind of two valve unit? thought i would ask the experts what advice you might have.

thanks,
pat

 

[fishercat]

you should be fine with the 16gpm pump.

go to a hydraulic supply house and get a regulator.

 

[Beefie]

Welcome to AS I see this is your first post. We like PICS here and can help you out better by looking at PICS of your splitter , with desigh of said lift . If you think that when you pull the lever for the lift ,that the log will go flying by your head,it won't. That only happens in the movies, A regulator in line with the valve and before the cylinder will help with any jerky motions.

We like PICS:hmm3grin2orange:

Beefie

 

[pat_58]

thanks, fisher and beefie. i see northern has several hydraulic adjustable flow control valves. i assume i would need two, one for the ram extension hose line, and another for the retraction stroke line?

i could post a pic of my wood splitter, sure. just give me a few days when i get a day off and have good light outside. don't have the lift made or designed yet. probably a project for next summer. asking questions now to get a parts list and start planning.

thanks for all the helpful info. stay tuned for a pic...

pat.

 

[fishercat]

i think you would only need one.

for the lift supply line.

 

[pat_58]

my reasoning on the two flow control valves was that unless i had one on the retraction stroke also, the lift might slam back down to the ground too quickly, and possibly be a safety issue. but then again, not really sure.

thanks again,
pat.

 

[SWI Don]

Welcome to AS I see this is your first post. We like PICS here and can help you out better by looking at PICS of your splitter , with desigh of said lift . If you think that when you pull the lever for the lift ,that the log will go flying by your head,it won't. That only happens in the movies, A regulator in line with the valve and before the cylinder will help with any jerky motions.

We like PICS:hmm3grin2orange:

Beefie

I know I can launch wood with mine. 2" cylinder with a 28gpm pump. It springs up faster than a 14 yr old with a Playboy.

IT IS a safety issue and I do need to install some orifices/flow reducers in the lines to slow the lift down. Some people have welded a fitting closed and drilled a small hole. I will probably do something similar.

Don

 

[Steve NW WI]

my reasoning on the two flow control valves was that unless i had one on the retraction stroke also, the lift might slam back down to the ground too quickly, and possibly be a safety issue. but then again, not really sure.

thanks again,
pat.

One flow valve will be fine. When lowering it, that valve will still be restricting the flow, just that the oil will be going the opposite direction through it. Putting it on the "raise" side of the cylinder will probably give better results than on the "lower" side, due to the larger volume of oil going through it.

 

[pat_58]

hi Steve.

i checked the specs on northern, and it stated for a particular flow controller that it was "unrestricted flow in opposite direction". most were like that, and there were really expensive ones i didn't even look at. this was basically why i thought i would need two of them. am i on the right track?

thanks for the reply,
pat.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I hadn't checked into them too closely, I guess valves that are one way only would need two of them to work both directions then.

A simple solution I thought of just now, would be to use small (1/4") hoses for a built in flow restriction. Quite a bit of farm machinery uses this technique on cylinders that need to move slow.

 

[Junkfxr]

I added a log lift to my splitter after the fact also. Plumbed the valve into the "OUT" line from the splitter cylinder valve and used 1/4" hoses to keep the speed down on the lift. Works like a charm.

 

[pat_58]

thanks for all the helpful info!

as promised, here is a pic of my homemade splitter. a friend gave this to me, and it was "free". her late husband, a machinist, made this quite a while ago. it's a virtual tank, and weighs just about 700 pounds. it was definitely a project. it had an engine that was siezed up, a leaking ram, single stage pump with bearings shot, and one side of the wedge broken. i welded the the broken wedge, put on a fairly new engine, a new 16 gpm 2 stage pump, a new 4 inch ram, a return line filter, a new valve, and of course, new hoses and fittings. i didn't know anything about hydraulics, but after working on this, i sure did. now, i plan on adding a log lift.

happy thanksgiving,
pat.

 

[trialanderror]

if you used a decent quality spool, it wouldn't matter how fast the pump moved oil, you could just ease the spool and get the job done...cylinder anchor points will change the outcome alot as well.

 

[pat_58]

not sure what you mean by a spool.

 

[trialanderror]

hydraulic valve with a lever for flow control.

all front end loaders are setu pthe same way. just move the valve a ltitle bit and you can fine tune cylinder positions (lift the arms a fraction of an inch, etc etc)

people that use 1/4" hose to cheat is beacuse they just wham the spool full blast, naturally things are going to go wild....especially on a small bore with a high gpm pump. There's no need to use regulators. Properly using valves will naturally become a regulator.

If your cyliner moves 1" to lift the loglift (complete random figures) 4", and it only takes a few seconds for a 8" stroke to extend, holy, you won't be lifting logs, going to be catapulting them.

Always ease the spool! never full throttle unless you know the results.

 

[Steve NW WI]

T&E - I saw some small lines in use today. Gerringhoff 12 row folding corn head on a Deere combine. (Electrohydraulic actuated, no "touch" to it). I couldn't beleive how long that thing took to fold, I had to have been talking to the driver for 2-3 minutes while it was folding. A bit extreme? Possibly, but it beats damaging a head that cost IIRC $125,000 by slamming it shut.

I agree that finesse on the lever is the way to go for someone that's used to it, but for an occasional user that might sit at a desk clicking and pointing all week, built in safety is probably a good idea. I doubt any commercially built unit's owners manual will read "It is important to feather the control valve, otherwise you'll toss logs across the street with this thing."

Idiot-proofing any machine (and I'm NOT calling pat_58 or anyone else on here an idiot) is a huge part of designing machinery.

 

[trialanderror]

I can see the reasoning. For certian situations low flow is the answer, espeically with 'push the go button and let it continue un-attended' setups; as the one your explaining.

Personally i can't find myself to spend the money to buy small hose, the fittings, then take my time, just to slow my equipment down.

And yeah, as with everyone else, and not to offend anyone, I myself am afraid of pencil pushers and those alike who get behind machinery with no experience.

Last year a neighbour bragged how he bought his $45000 harley. Said he just got his cycle endorsement, and has never rode a bike in his life...

Talking to me, who has spend probably hundreds of hours, thousands of miles on the trails & tracks with a motocross race bike, and refuses to ride on pavement (for the fact of people like my neighboor, and cmon, almost anyone can ride down straight smooth pavement ), i just couldn't beleive my ears...

Month later it's sitting in the corner of his garage all scabbed up. Ha.

A note on the side, if anyone wants to start riding a road bike. I tell you from my aspect, it's MUCH easier to gain your trust, and know how, on a dirtbike in the soft dirt, makes you force to understand how your body reacts and understanding the feel of center of gravity.

 

[Blazin]

Some people have welded a fitting closed and drilled a small hole. I will probably do something similar.

Exactly what I did, brazed the end of the fitting shut and drilled a 3/32 hole. You could go even smaller with the drill size to get the desired speed for the lift, mine seems to be just about right with the 2" cylinder on my lift.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Given that you are talking about your normal type log lift linkage with 8 -10" stroke cylinder lifting the log 3-4 feet I can say YES, it will run waaay too fast to be safe with those GPMs and a 2" bore cylinder. I had one just like it. I thought not until I bounced my lift off my ankles twice and mine would trow a log over the beam. Surplus center has adjustable restrictors that will do the job and yes you do need them both directions. The only problem with restrictors on a open center system is the excess will have to by-pass the main relief valve. That will build heat in the oil and make the motor and pump work hard, that may or may not be a problem. As somebody mentioned a top quality valve will allow you to meter the flow and lifting speed while most "log splitter" valves wont do that. The best way barring cost is to install a flow controller like a RD100 Prince to feed the log lift valve and returns the excess to the tank. <IMG SRC=http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/vrd100.jpg> They are a little over $100 new but watch Ebay, I have purchased several for less than $20 delivered to my door.

 

[Mike Van]

Anyone can learn how to "feather" a valve, the problem will come when the lever just gets thrown. By accident, a kid, someone that didn't know better or just plain 'forgot' which lever. Then, if there's a foot under the log loader or a face right above it, it's going to be nasty. We like pics here, but not gruesome ones.