Square filing. Who has tried, and given up?

[Metals406]

So is there a consensus that the Save Edge aren't lasting as long as Pferd of Vallorbe?

I'm running Pferd right now, but they're also $10 a whack.

 

[Metals406]

Metals, I'm glad you're chiming in. I can use all the help I can get, because I'm not a real good "online teacher".
All threads eventually take a deture, and we're now talking about goofy filing. But at least we're still talking about filing.
I think once most people get good with a goofy file, the transition to square filing isn't near as difficult.

Andy

I agree Andy. . . Goofy is a good segue into square. Fact is, some may choose to stay with goofy. . . It is better than round.

So far so good on keeping this thread on track -- only time will tell though.

 

[Burvol]

Andy, I give you respect bud. I cannot square file. I grind. I love the fat side cutter for chip clearance and aggressive bite as well. Kudos for teaching these guys how to square file, it cuts like a muther. I have taken up porting and rebuilding saws vs. learning to square file in my down time.

 

[redprospector]

So is there a consensus that the Save Edge aren't lasting as long as Pferd of Vallorbe?

I'm running Pferd right now, but they're also $10 a whack.

I don't know.
Several years ago a buddy that has a logging/firewood business decided he was going to go square, and teach all his hands to file, so he ordered a gross of Pferd double bevel's. Problem was, he didn't know how to file.
So I bought the files from him at a slight discount.
I guess I'll find out soon though........I'm down to my last dozen.

Andy

 

[Metals406]

I don't know.
Several years ago a buddy that has a logging/firewood business decided he was going to go square, and teach all his hands to file, so he ordered a gross of Pferd double bevel's. Problem was, he didn't know how to file.
So I bought the files from him at a slight discount.
I guess I'll find out soon though........I'm down to my last dozen.

Andy

You lucky dog! I'd love to find me a pile of them at an auction or going out of biz sale.

I need to get my dang grinder setup so I can start grinding too. . . And reserve the filing for touch-up.

 

[redprospector]

Andy, I give you respect bud. I cannot square file. I grind. I love the fat side cutter for chip clearance and aggressive bite as well. Kudos for teaching these guys how to square file, it cuts like a muther. I have taken up porting and rebuilding saws vs. learning to square file in my down time.

Hey, if you've got a grinder learning to file is kinda irrelevant. I figure learning to file square is an inexpensive way to get into the world of "real" cutting.

Andy

 

[Metals406]

Andy, I give you respect bud. I cannot square file. I grind. I love the fat side cutter for chip clearance and aggressive bite as well. Kudos for teaching these guys how to square file, it cuts like a muther. I have taken up porting and rebuilding saws vs. learning to square file in my down time.

Hey Burv. . . Watch porting and building -- it's addictive too! LOL

Soon you'll have saws' piled all over waiting fixies.

 

[ronT2]

Here’s a picture of a round filed chain that I’m converting to square using a double bevel file. You can see how the right side of the top plate hasn’t caught up with the rest of the cutter yet. Hope I’m on the right track.

 

[Metals406]

Here’s a picture of a round filed chain that I’m converting to square using a double bevel file. You can see how the right side of the top plate hasn’t caught up with the rest of the cutter yet. Hope I’m on the right track.

Steepen your angle a tweed, and you'll get more longevity out'a that top-plate.

 

[ronT2]

Thanks, it looks like that will help with the inside corner. Andy said I should be hitting more of the tie strap which might also help.

 

[Metals406]

Thanks, it looks like that will help with the inside corner. Andy said I should be hitting more of the tie strap which might also help.

Yup. . . You find the sweet spot, and aim for the tie straps like aiming a rifle. If you aren't digging into the strap, your angles are shallow. . . Okay for a race type chain, but won't last as long for work.

 

[redprospector]

Thanks, it looks like that will help with the inside corner. Andy said I should be hitting more of the tie strap which might also help.

Yep, steepen her up a little & you'll be good. The working corner looks right on. Rub that tie strap & I think you'll be good as gold.

Andy

 

[Metals406]

What helps me, is to always concentrate on geometry. . . I have a very mathematical mind.

I always try and focus on the fact that I'm trying to, essentially, divide or "cut" the top-plate off. Kinda pretending the file is a hack saw or the like.

 

[redprospector]

What helps me, is to always concentrate on geometry. . . I have a very mathematical mind.

I always try and focus on the fact that I'm trying to, essentially, divide or "cut" the top-plate off. Kinda pretending the file is a hack saw or the like.

Hahaha. Maybe that's my problem with trying to teach. When I file, my mind just kinda goes blank. So it's kinda hard to describe what I'm doing.
You made a good post reguardless of my smart :censored:. 45 is the magic number. If all angles are held at 45 degree, and your corners are matching, the chain will cut & be durrable.

Andy

 

[tdi-rick]

What helps me, is to always concentrate on geometry. . . I have a very mathematical mind.

I always try and focus on the fact that I'm trying to, essentially, divide or "cut" the top-plate off. Kinda pretending the file is a hack saw or the like.

Hahaha. Maybe that's my problem with trying to teach. When I file, my mind just kinda goes blank. So it's kinda hard to describe what I'm doing.
You made a good post reguardless of my smart :censored:. 45 is the magic number. If all angles are held at 45 degree, and your corners are matching, the chain will cut & be durrable.

Andy

Both excellent posts, helps a lot

 

[parrisw]

Parish how are you guys geting such clesr pictures? I've been trying a six sided file like pictued in this thread. but my pictures are not this clear.

You need a camera that has Macro setting, that allows it to focus really close.

Parrisw, It's looking pretty good. But you need to raise your hand up to make the file go in at a steeper angle. You are also low in the cutter with the file.
Notice the beak you have on the top plate. It will cut like mad...........for a few cuts, but will dull very quickly because there's nothing to support the edge. Get the corner of the file (where the flat meets the edge) to meet in the corner of the cutter.
Here's a cutter I filed the other day for John's thread. See how the corner of the file made a line going into the corner of the cutter? That's what you're looking for.

Andy

Andy thanks! It actually looks better by eye then in that pic, I am digging into the tie strap when doing this. I'm trying real hard to get the inside and outside cutters to line up. Here is a quick vid I did today with a stock 357 and my first goofy filed chain, it does pull a good chip, now this is with very dry Doug Fir which is pretty hard stuff.

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[Metals406]

You need a camera that has Macro setting, that allows it to focus really close.




Andy thanks! It actually looks better by eye then in that pic, I am digging into the tie strap when doing this. I'm trying real hard to get the inside and outside cutters to line up. Here is a quick vid I did today with a stock 357 and my first goofy filed chain, it does pull a good chip, now this is with very dry Doug Fir which is pretty hard stuff.

That's most definitely Doug Fir. . . With that dang stinking power you get while cutting!

Dead, hard Larch ain't much better. :rant:

So, overall, what do you think of goofy? Feel better than your round?

 

[parrisw]

That's most definitely Doug Fir. . . With that dang stinking power you get while cutting!

Dead, hard Larch ain't much better. :rant:

So, overall, what do you think of goofy? Feel better than your round?

Ya, doug fir bark is really dusty!!!!! full of ****!!

Ya the saw does feel good with it, I think my chain could be better! I felt that I could maybe lean on the saw a little more then with round, but I have hardly any run time with the 357, so the jury is still out I think. But I think I need more practice with the filing. The cutter is definitely sharper, so that's a good thing.

 

[Metals406]

Ya, doug fir bark is really dusty!!!!! full of ****!!

Ya the saw does feel good with it, I think my chain could be better! I felt that I could maybe lean on the saw a little more then with round, but I have hardly any run time with the 357, so the jury is still out I think. But I think I need more practice with the filing. The cutter is definitely sharper, so that's a good thing.

Sharper is gooder-er!!

 

[Zombiechopper]

doug fir is hard?!!

hah!! you lefty coast boys crack me up.