SRT ascenders

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mikecross23

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I have been trying to decide what tecnique to use for SRT and decided on the petzl handled ascender w/ the footpro stirrup and the petzl basic. I rushed to try them out for the first time this weekend and had troubles. When I raise the handled ascender on the rope the basic ascender (attached to my waist) does not follow (it doesn't take up the slack). I'm sure once you get fifteen or more feet off the ground that the weight of the rope pulls through the ascender on it's own. I can't use my free hand to pull the excess through because there is too much slack where the basic ascender connects to my waiste. If anyone has or knows of any articles, photos or can just plain explain, PLEASE HELP! ! !

I'm new to this site, but I've been following it for a few weeks now and love all of the info you guys post.
 
We need to know how your rig is configured. Are you using a basic instead of a croll in a frog system? How are your straps set up? Also look in On Rope for info.
 
We need to know how your rig is configured. Are you using a basic instead of a croll in a frog system? How are your straps set up? Also look in On Rope for info.
I am using a basic instead of a croll and I don't know what a frog system is.:eek: From step one. . . Climbing line through false crotch; one side tied off at base of tree; handled petzl ascender attached to working end w/ footpro stirrup; petzl Basic ascender attached to climbing line at waist. When I pull myself up w/ the handled ascender and the attached footpro, the basic ascender does not progress up the line and I can't pull the excess line through (like you would w/ a friction hitch and biner) b/c of the way the Basic petzl ascender just hangs on my waist connection. I need to find a way to get the Basic ascender to follow the handled ascender instead of just hanging there limp.

I don't think I'm making much sense, but I'm tryin' :(
 
The two throw bags I have in my cube work great for me. I just tie them onto the rope and footlock up. I don't always use a chainsaw when I acsend on rope but I always have the bags out.
 
i've been using the CMI double ascenders w/ foot straps
for about 2 months now and I'm really digging it!!!! just
sit and stand your way up the line! definitly worth the $$$.
i do have a bit of a problem when first starting out w/ the line feeding smoothly thru my bottom ascender until about 6-8' up.....
thanks for the tip mike!!! can't wait to try it!!!
budroe:cool:
 
Use a loop runner (real cheap, strong enough for life support, light, doesn't take up much space) to attach your handled ascender to your front D-ring. When you push the ascender up, it will pull up your midpoint ascender.

Read treeman82's thread on SRT, some good stuff on that thread might help you out too.
 
One more possible solution:
Place both feet (instead of one) through the loop and let the rope run through them. Squeeze your feet together tightening the rope while going up, open them apart (letting the rope run down) while moving up the handle. As already mentioned, this is necessary only during the first few meters.
Try it and let me know... ;)

Sergio
 
I'll vote with most everyone else. starting the climb you do not have enough rope weight to self tail through the basic. once a few feet hav passed through the basic it should get easier.

then if you find some slop in your system after you get the tailing part down, you might want to tak a loop runner, hitch it to the center D, and hitch it over your shoulder. this will pull everything up and take some of the slop out of the self belay sytem.
 
What is it that this ground support person (who we all agree must be present for every climb) is doing besides helping the climber? As long as your helpers are around, let them help!

SRT often conotates large trees. These aren't the kind of trees that you should be doing alone. Ascender systems are usually complex, so a team effort is the way to go.

SRT

Watch out for the tree climbing competition on ABC's Good Morning America show on Wednesday, Nov 14th.
CBS News Sunday Morning

There is a video out about the TREE Fun(d) Climb in the Bogachiel Spruce. Contact me if you'd like to see it.

Arboreally yours,

Ox
(206) 949-8733
Arboreally Yours,
 
You need to do some homework before you continue. Buy a copy of ON ROPE and then read the whole book. Would you buy a parachute and then use it before taking lessons? Maybe I'm being a little heavy handed, such is life. Arborists need to study the other rope disciplines since we're borrowing their skills.

It's good that you're asking questions here, don't get me wrong. You do need to study more though.

If you don't keep the lower ascender tailing up, you risk having the rope cross over the cam and jamming or damaging the rope. Be sure to clip a biner through the top holes in your handled ascender.

Did you read my article on SRT in TCI magazine? You do have a subscription, don;t you? If you don't get the mag, go to the NAA site and sign up. If anyone wants a copy of my article, write to me off the forum and I'll send it to you.

Tom
 
Thanks for the link to your pictures, Ox. After doing lots of reading and checking out different equipment, I've started out using a system almost identical to Tom's (in your pics). I'm using the Pantin instead of a footstrap though.
 
Here's a pic of a climber wearing a New Tribe saddle using a rope bag as a weight to tail the static line thru the ascenders during ascent of the Yosemite Sequoia.

Sorry, the correct day for the tree climbing competition on ABC's Good Morning America is Thursday, Nov. 14 (not Wednesday the 14th, as was previously reported)

This discussion about SRT needs to take into account that SRT is often new to the folks who mainly use doubled rope technique. The basics are really important, especially when trying new stuff. Here's a link to some of the basics of DRT:

Climbers Bag of Tricks

Specifically referring to the lockoff holes to block the cam on an ascender with a spare biner, these don't really qualify as a redundant backup. The Mar-bar is sold in catalogs & often used without the required second point of attachment to the harness.

One place where this can really be a problem is with the Pantin footcam. I haven't seen a situation where a biner should be inserted into this lockoff. Sideways movements are what usually permit the line to escape from this device. I'd like to hear more feedback on this gadget. It is gathering greater acceptance from tree climbers.

From a safety standpoint, a climber runs the risk of a heel hang if the Pantin is locked off. Of course, noone expects their upper ascenders to come unattached, tipping them upside down. But if this miraculous turn of events were to occur, the climber would be good & stuck. A heel hang is a potentially fatal position. We had a climber get excited when encountering a bee's nest and drop back with his heel in a tight fork. We're talking helpless.

Besides the Pantin, make sure at least two other points of attachment exist between you and the jug line. A prussik cord mounted just above the upper ascender, and running down to the hip dee is a nice way to go. The ascender shoves it on up ahead of itself with no tending needed by the climber.

This setup with a prussik cord up top works great as a backup when descending with a figure 8 or bobbin descender, such as a Petzl Stop, Kong Speleo, Anthron, etc.

My latest favorite descender backup is another descender, mounted just above the first one on an 8-10" tether to the hip dee. I love the control of a figure 8 daisychained above the Stop. This worked great on that skinny Spiderline, and is the cats meow in slippery, wet weather.

To keep from melting the rope, follow the instructions stamped on the side of the Stop that limit the rate of descent to 2 meters per second. They're not kidding. That is slow, and one must also come to a complete stop every 50' or so to keep things cool. When you can smell it melting, it's past time to slow your descent. Climbing etiquette dictates that abseiling on borrowed rope will be done at a slow rate, as a courtesy to the person that loaned out the descent line.

You can adjust rope handling chareristics for different diameters, as well. The newer polyester static lines have more stretch and subsequent dynamic loading properties, and have a higher melting temperature. Other statics have a smoother surface because they are braided on machines with more (48!) carriers.

These modern days bring to the table all of these factors (and a whole bunch more!) that climbers must take into account. Not only do we have to learn the basics, we must also learn the subtleties. As the manufacturers respond to changing market demands, they incorporate new technology. Our days of relying on the status quo are long gone !
 
Clipping through the upper ascender holes isn't meant as a backup. This is meant to keep the rope fair to the cam. Adds just a little safety to the setup.

The Pantin should NEVER be considered a point of attachment. The only foot ascenders that could be considered second points would be a foot stirrup Gibbs with a lanyard attached to the front dee of the saddle.

Look at the On Rope I catalog:

http://onrope1.com/index.html


I prefer using a Greg Liu Easy Bar to the Pantin for general tree work. If I was packing gear and weight was an issue I would choose the Pantin though.

Tom
 
Request a catalog from onrope1, they have some awseome climbing systems that you can steal ideas from, or buy. Makes me want a chest roller....
Greg
 
I don't think there is a biner that will go through any pair of handled ascenders. If you wnated to secure the cams I think that you would have to use a bolt with a secure nut or pin.

While on my pursuit of the arbo SRT system I realized quite a while ago that paired, handled ascenders had too many limitations. I don't think that they are as safe as using a shelled ascender like a Gibbs or MicroCender. Besides, shelled ascenders are much more compact.

Tom
 

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