*****Stihl 064 Spun Bearing? DoubleA you out there? Help with Stihl 064****

[Jacob J.]

Any luck?

I found a couple sets of case halves that may work for you. I have to check tomorrow to make sure the
bearing pockets are good.

 

[Mastermind]

I found several sets of 034 case a few days back with loose inserts. One was found after the saw was back together and running. That sucks.

 

[nmurph]

DOOOOD, you made a point of it, then you really need to edit "your" post!

Done...sorry, the son was at the hospital all day.

 

[aadoublea]

I found a couple sets of case halves that may work for you. I have to check tomorrow to make sure the
bearing pockets are good.

Thanks guy!

 

[SkippyKtm]

I found several sets of 034 case a few days back with loose inserts. One was found after the saw was back together and running. That sucks.

What is the reason for the inserts anyway, does anybody know? Many saws are manufactured without them and they don't have this problem. I've seen a few 034's myself with hosed inserts...

 

[Jacob J.]

What is the reason for the inserts anyway, does anybody know? Many saws are manufactured without them and they don't have this problem. I've seen a few 034's myself with hosed inserts...

Part of it has to do with the different expansion rates and heat retention of the steel bearing cage vs. magnesium crankcase, plus the fact that the modern saws are turning so many more RPM than the older saws without a bearing pocket. Stihl and Husky both took this a step further on the newest saws like the MS-880 and 576AT.

 

[Mastermind]

JJ, is the insert becoming loose a matter of the saw running with a bad bearing, the chain being way too tight, or?????? Also, I only seen it on the 034, PTO side........manufacturing defect????

 

[Jacob J.]

JJ, is the insert becoming loose a matter of the saw running with a bad bearing, the chain being way too tight, or?????? Also, I only seen it on the 034, PTO side........manufacturing defect????

From what I've seen, it's a combination of factors. In the majority of 064s I've seen fail they were either milling or landing saws, both of which are the hardest environments a saw will run in. A lot of landing saws are routinely forced to cut with a dull chain since the logs coming in are dirty + covered with mud or gravel. On milling, the saw is continually under a heavy load and in some cases a longer bar which puts a lot of pressure on the case. I've seen a lot of failed 034 cases from thinning crews and they are hard on saws as well.

I don't think it was manufacturing defect. It may have been poor initial design. Again, the thermal expansion and contraction rates for steel and magnesium are different and in the case of a chainsaw, it's constantly going from hot to cold. This is why we stopped repairing spark plug threads in cylinders that were too far gone for a heli-coil (using the steel thread insert.) The constant hot and cold would cause the thread inserts to just fall right out.

Another factor is when people run a worn out sprocket or clutch drum. That puts a lot of vibration on the case, and I've seen that eat up bearing pockets and even crankshafts.

 

[aadoublea]

Part of it has to do with the different expansion rates and heat retention of the steel bearing cage vs. magnesium crankcase, plus the fact that the modern saws are turning so many more RPM than the older saws without a bearing pocket. Stihl and Husky both took this a step further on the newest saws like the MS-880 and 576AT.

Any luck?

 

[sefh3]

From what I've seen, it's a combination of factors. In the majority of 064s I've seen fail they were either milling or landing saws, both of which are the hardest environments a saw will run in. A lot of landing saws are routinely forced to cut with a dull chain since the logs coming in are dirty + covered with mud or gravel. On milling, the saw is continually under a heavy load and in some cases a longer bar which puts a lot of pressure on the case. I've seen a lot of failed 034 cases from thinning crews and they are hard on saws as well.

I don't think it was manufacturing defect. It may have been poor initial design. Again, the thermal expansion and contraction rates for steel and magnesium are different and in the case of a chainsaw, it's constantly going from hot to cold. This is why we stopped repairing spark plug threads in cylinders that were too far gone for a heli-coil (using the steel thread insert.) The constant hot and cold would cause the thread inserts to just fall right out.

Another factor is when people run a worn out sprocket or clutch drum. That puts a lot of vibration on the case, and I've seen that eat up bearing pockets and even crankshafts.

That is some great information right there. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.

 

[Mastermind]

That is some great information right there. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us.

I agree 1000%!!!!!!!!!!! JJ, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!

I have a couple 064 cases here that have some wallowed out bolt holes and a #### load of missing paint, but the bearing inserts are sound.

 

[aadoublea]

So has anyone ever came up with a simple way to repair a spun insert? After the case is split has anyone ever removed the spun insert? Like I said before I don't have any knowledge of tolerances and what not. Why couldn't a guy remove the insert, slather it in jbweld and put it back in place. Then just put a new bearing in it and be done with it? Also I don't see why I couldn't drill a few holes and put a few pins to help hold the insert from spinning again. I'm probably crazy. The inserts were probably pressed into the case and never suppose to spin and if they are spinning that means they have wore away the case therefore making tolerances sloppy. Is that why this redneck fix won't work? Why wouldn't the jbweld hold that insert from spinning and also fill in the wallowed case?

Is it just that know ones ever tried it or that I am officially crazy?

I just want to fix my saw now. Snow is starting to fly and I've got some huge tree's I was saving for a bigger saw. My ms290 doesn't really like 24" diameter maple and beech. Let alone my 192c. I guess I could use my Mac 130 :wink2:

 

[aadoublea]

I agree 1000%!!!!!!!!!!! JJ, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!

I have a couple 064 cases here that have some wallowed out bolt holes and a #### load of missing paint, but the bearing inserts are sound.

What holes are wallowed out? Something I could tap bigger easily? How much you want for them? My paypal is warmed up ready to go. If you think they are useable.


Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Jacob J.]

The reason these can't be repaired easily is because the bearing pocket is "hot fit", meaning it's pressed into the case half while the case half is still very hot, then the case half cools around it and makes a very tight fit. JB weld would never hold under the heat and vibration, not to mention continual exposure to gas and oil. Pins, not so much because again, the crankcase is constantly going from cold to hot and back. Eventually the pins would just wallow themselves out. Vibration itself is a killer but when you add heat to vibration it becomes a very tricky animal to deal with.

 

[aadoublea]

The reason these can't be repaired easily is because the bearing pocket is "hot fit", meaning it's pressed into the case half while the case half is still very hot, then the case half cools around it and makes a very tight fit. JB weld would never hold under the heat and vibration, not to mention continual exposure to gas and oil. Pins, not so much because again, the crankcase is constantly going from cold to hot and back. Eventually the pins would just wallow themselves out. Vibration itself is a killer but when you add heat to vibration it becomes a very tricky animal to deal with.

I knew there was a reason. Thanks for the info.

 

[aadoublea]

I knew there was a reason. Thanks for the info.

Well I guess I am going to ship the saw back for $340 which is what I paid including shipping. The kind of bad thing is: I have to ship it back in its original condition and I have it torn down to the case. If I was keeping the saw I could rebuild it in my own time and smooth out any bugs as I go. Its going to be kind of tricky for me to do it right the first time. Like slipping the cylinder back onto the piston. And where the rings gaps are supposed to be when I slip it on. Guess I have some research to do.


I was hoping he would just give me a refund and I kind take my time looking for a new case. Darn it.
I really wasn't trying to get a outrageously cheap saw or anything just wanted a deal on a very hard used saw.


Thanks for the help guys, guess this thread is done,

Aaron

 

[aadoublea]

Well I ended up keeping the saw. I just couldn't part with it. So I still need a case for a Stihl 064.

What do you guys think about buying just the pto side half? Is the consensus that it will work most of the time but not all of the time? What do I look for if I get just a half to see if it is going to work? Do I look where the cylinder sits on the case to make sure each half is the same height? Any other places?

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Mastermind]

Well I ended up keeping the saw. I just couldn't part with it. So I still need a case for a Stihl 064.

What do you guys think about buying just the pto side half? Is the consensus that it will work most of the time but not all of the time? What do I look for if I get just a half to see if it is going to work? Do I look where the cylinder sits on the case to make sure each half is the same height? Any other places?

Thanks,
Aaron

Even if there's a slight difference in height you can use a steady hand and a good flat file to even the surfaces up. It ain't ideal, but it will work.

 

[aadoublea]

Even if there's a slight difference in height you can use a steady hand and a good flat file to even the surfaces up. It ain't ideal, but it will work.

Good so chances are I could get away with just a case half then....maybe. Great.

Should I just pull the trigger and get that case from you? :msp_sneaky:

Also I was wondering if I could bolt all of my 064 parts(plastic, gas tank assembly, fw cover) onto a 066 case. Gosh I've been looking at a lot of pictures of them and they sure do look a lot alike. Such as all the av mount locations and what not.

Then maybe I could find a case easier. I plan on doing a big bore kit anyways and maybe that would save me time of having to drill holes out to 6mm.

Just rambling on and on I know,

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[rupedoggy]

I have messed with 064/066s a lot. The best way is to keep 064s and 066s without mixing parts. Seals, ignitions, flywheels, starters, etc can all be different. Build this first one as an 064 and save yourself a lot of frustration. Ask JJ he has done a few also but he has years of experience. Mike