Stihl MS 291 Freezing Sticking Kick Back on Cold Start.

[ClimbMIT]

Take the spark plug out and see if it loosens up.

I guess by doing this it will allow the water to exit when air can be pulled in. Thanks brother!

 

[Jarh73]

Think I might try another Stihl dealer!

So I called this morning for an update, saw is ready to pick up.

Good news.

I asked for a verdict on the starting from cold issues.

Reply was; oh it started after 3 pulls.

I said that's great but I meant the verdict on the sticking/freezing.

Reply: ummmmm errrrr I donno I'll get back to you.

For piece of mind I'm going to get a second opinion, hopefully it's all nothing.

I might video tape it so you can all see exactly what I mean.

Cheers

Justin

 

[Jarh73]

Bit of an update.

Picked saw up this morning and they said its all good, the resistance on cold start up is a bit higher than normally expected but its apparently OK.

I had things to do so I paid for my service and tested the saw later on.

No idea exactly what they did other than tuning it and normal service things listed including new fuel filter and spark plug, wouldn't have thought necessary after 10 tanks but meh.

Well it's easier tow start! The very harsh kick back/sticking has gone just feels like decent compression now. I had it fire on choke after the third pull from dead cold. Never been that easy to start.

So for the moment it's all good.

Thanks all for your help.

Cheers

Justin

 

[Jarh73]

Got a mate to start the saw yesterday just for a second opinion, first two pulls were fine but on the third pull he got a dose of what I have been explaining. It bit back quite hard.

Suffice to say it did start.

I also showed how if you let the saw fall by just holding the starter handle it doesn't fall very far and in fact it actually stops, needs a bit of a jiggle to keep it moving.

I really don't know how definitive the drop test is but just putting it out there.

At this stage its more or less inconclusive if anything is wrong or not so I think I will just live with it.

Cheers

Justin

 

[Rockjock]

Got a mate to start the saw yesterday just for a second opinion, first two pulls were fine but on the third pull he got a dose of what I have been explaining. It bit back quite hard.

Suffice to say it did start.

I also showed how if you let the saw fall by just holding the starter handle it doesn't fall very far and in fact it actually stops, needs a bit of a jiggle to keep it moving.

I really don't know how definitive the drop test is but just putting it out there.

At this stage its more or less inconclusive if anything is wrong or not so I think I will just live with it.

Cheers

Justin

While I am no expert I have an idea, once you get that hard pull remove the plug and see if it is still hard to pull, I think it maybe flooding a bit giving you that hard pull. My 017 even does that sometimes and I have noticed the plug is wet with mix.

 

[Jarh73]

Saw had its first lot of cutting since the service two weeks ago and I have to say its running extremely well.

Started perfectly and since the tune/service is powering along very nicely. Cutting quite a bit of eucalyptus (Mana gum for Aussie locals) around 16 inch diameter and solid all the way through, very dense timber. It really was like a hot knife through butter.

I'm one happy camper now. :msp_biggrin:

Cheers

Justin

 

[B Harrison]

I will throw this out there. Do you expect a saw to fall if your holding just the starting rope, because to me that's a sign of low compression. It sounds like your saw has good compression and your just catching it at the tight spot in the stroke some times.

My 268 xp will stop even the strongest man cold if its at the wrong position when started. Its 174 psi Cold so that's just right for a stock saw. Its not too bad when warm, but when cranking it cold you just have to mean it.

Dolmar 7910 is a monster to pull without the decomp button pushed in. I can't imagine the 291 even needing the decomp, but if it runs as well as you need, just learn to get mean with it.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Saw had its first lot of cutting since the service two weeks ago and I have to say its running extremely well.

Started perfectly and since the tune/service is powering along very nicely. Cutting quite a bit of eucalyptus (Mana gum for Aussie locals) around 16 inch diameter and solid all the way through, very dense timber. It really was like a hot knife through butter.

I'm one happy camper now. :msp_biggrin:

Cheers

Justin

(1) New (2) Lots of compression (3) No decomp valve.

My MS 361 will jerk my arm off when cold and if I forget to press down on the decomp valve, even after 5 years of professional use. It's also a fabulous chainsaw with good power.

Since you apparently have no decomp valve in place, the first pull on choke should be slow, just to get things moving. That's how I handle my MS 290 and 034 AV Super.

 

[Jarh73]

(1) New (2) Lots of compression (3) No decomp valve.

My MS 361 will jerk my arm off when cold and if I forget to press down on the decomp valve, even after 5 years of professional use. It's also a fabulous chainsaw with good power.

Yeah it does have a lot of compression, which is a good thing in the grand scheme of things. I'd really like to know what they did to it to reduce the sticking though, just out of curiosity. Definitely no decomp! I did always tend to turn it over slowly before starting as you have suggested.

On a side note there is not a lot of threads on here about the MS 291, it doesn't seem to be a very popular saw at all. I realise its not a pro saw but a pro saw would be massive overkill for me. Originally I was looking at the MS 251, it retails for $799 in Australia. That was as much money as I wanted to spend but in the end forked over another $200 for the MS 291 as it was the right weight, capacity, (standard) bar length and power for what I needed. I did look at the MS 261 but that was another $250 and I was already $200 over budget.

Cheers

Justin

 

[Wood Doctor]

Yeah it does have a lot of compression, which is a good thing in the grand scheme of things. I'd really like to know what they did to it though just out of curiosity.

On a side note there is not a lot of threads on here about the MS 291, it doesn't seem to be a very popular saw at all. I realise its not a pro saw but a pro saw would be massive overkill for me. Originally I was looking at the MS 251, it retails for $799 in Australia. That was as much money as I wanted to spend but in the end forked over another $200 for the MS 291 as it was the right weight, capacity, (standard) bar length and power for what I needed. I did look at the MS 261 but that was another $250 and I was already $200 over budget.

Cheers

Justin

Well, both Troll and I have squawked at the MS 290 and 291, primarily because of the heavy weight compared to the power that it delivers low (Hp/wt ratio). The recent pro-series Stihl saws and several others all beat it in this regard. However, the saw performs rather well and has a good lifespan. It keeps on going and going, and few complain about the price. Many have changed the Farm Boss to 3/8 pitch chain (as I have) and used it successfully. However, it seems more comfortable with .325 chain.

Upgrading and doing serious repair work on the MS 290/291 are a bit of a PITA because of the housing design. I dread the day when I have to rebuild the engine. However, I have run into many popular saws made by other companies that make work on the Farm Boss look rather easy.

One other major complaint is that the old 041 Farm Boss actually had more power and a bigger engine. Many old-timers with 041s made fun of the 290 when it became the "new" Farm Boss with a smaller engine. I guess Still thought farmers needed less power. :msp_rolleyes:

 

[Jarh73]

Well, both Troll and I have squawked at the MS 290 and 291, primarily because of the heavy weight compared to the power that it delivers low (Hp/wt ratio). The recent pro-series Stihl saws and several others all beat it in this regard. However, the saw performs rather well and has a good lifespan. It keeps on going and going, and few complain about the price. Many have changed the Farm Boss to 3/8 pitch chain (as I have) and used it successfully. However, it seems more comfortable with .325 chain.

Upgrading and doing serious repair work on the MS 290/291 are a bit of a PITA because of the housing design. I dread the day when I have to rebuild the engine. However, I have run into many popular saws made by other companies that make work on the Farm Boss look rather easy.

One other major complaint is that the old 041 Farm Boss actually had more power and a bigger engine. Many old-timers with 041s made fun of the 290 when it became the "new" Farm Boss with a smaller engine. I guess Still thought farmers needed less power. :msp_rolleyes:

Yeah its interesting that the 261 has same power as the 291 but 5 less CC and 400 grams lighter. (291 is rated at 5.6kg 261 at 5.2kg.)

I seriously considered it but was already $200 over budget, and $450 over budget would have been too big a stretch.

If my budget was higher I think some of the Husky pro saws would have been worth it as they are lighter again, light weight is a priority for me as I don't cut that often in the grand scheme of things, so a lighter saw leaves you much less sore the next day!

Cheers

Justin

 

[B Harrison]

Yeah its interesting that the 261 has same power as the 291 but 5 less CC and 400 grams lighter. (291 is rated at 5.6kg 261 at 5.2kg.)

I seriously considered it but was already $200 over budget, and $450 over budget would have been too big a stretch.

If my budget was higher I think some of the Husky pro saws would have been worth it as they are lighter again, light weight is a priority for me as I don't cut that often in the grand scheme of things, so a lighter saw leaves you much less sore the next day!

Cheers

Justin

Hey someone rep this guy, he has already figured out that not only are pro saws better, but that Husky's pro saws are better than Stihl Pro saws. Dang man I don't even know you and i like you already.

On a serious note, I hate that saws are so over priced for you guys. See what it cost to get a saw shipped from the states to you and fire Nmurph an email. He can set you up with a kickin little number that will get a smile on your face and be easy to crank, while standing on one foot with your eyes closed.

 

[Jarh73]

Hey someone rep this guy, he has already figured out that not only are pro saws better, but that Husky's pro saws are better than Stihl Pro saws. Dang man I don't even know you and i like you already.

On a serious note, I hate that saws are so over priced for you guys. See what it cost to get a saw shipped from the states to you and fire Nmurph an email. He can set you up with a kickin little number that will get a smile on your face and be easy to crank, while standing on one foot with your eyes closed.

So really my next thread should be something like: Which Husky Pro-Saw Should I Order from the USA? :msp_biggrin:

Cheers

Justin

 

[treesmith]

Local stihl dealer has ms170 on offer for $299au, Rrp is $400 I think. Ms261 is $1300au, or <$600us in the states. A brand new ported ms261 was less than a $1,000us/$1,100au delivered from the States. Didn't take me too long thinking that one through

 

[Jarh73]

You live and you learn!

I think for the amount of use the 291 will see it will last me a long time and other than the starting issue (now resolved) it does everything I need it to do.

"If" I ever need another saw at least I will have baseline to compare and I will be sure to ask on here!

But a ported 261 or similar Husky would probably do everything I want.

Cheers

Justin

 

[treesmith]

No worries, but bear in mind that the "if" doesn't last long when you spend time on this site

 

[VinceGU05]

No worries, but bear in mind that the "if" doesn't last long when you spend time on this site

yeah!! noticed that!

 

[Jarh73]

yeah!! noticed that!

Better update your signature my friend! (The addiction begins) :msp_tongue:

Cheers

Justin