Stihl "synthetic" mix. "Biodegradeable" really means Useless in a week after mixed?

[JRM]

Fine if its in aluminum foil

Used to be the go to microwave on the job site. That, or the rod oven. Just had to make sure if throwing canned goods in the rod oven to crack it open first, otherwise they would pop and ruin the rod. A new guy got canned (see what I did there ) for ruining 2 just opened 50 lb boxes of inconel code rod once.
Big $$$$

 

[ValleyForge]

Its seems we cant win.

I see what you did there..lol

 

[heimannm]

The meaning of BIODEGRADABLE is capable of being broken down especially into innocuous products by the action of living things (such as microorganisms).

This is not taking place when your mixed fuel in stored in a sealed container.

Mark

 

[cscltd]

Isn’t the Stihl motomix canned fuel using the Stihl hp oil?
Stihl says it stays fresh from 5 years sealed and 2 years when opened?
If the hp oil goes off in 90 days, then how does it last in can??
Sometimes people just don’t think things all the way through. And sales reps are partially to blame as they rarely clarify things they are told or ask questions-just repeat what they thought they heard or whatever gets them the sale
Hear one little snippet of truth and then the “broken telephone” theory takes place

 

[Scrougetown Mill]

Actually, the chemicals that are used to make Teflon weren’t banned either, they were regulated out of existence….if the USA bans something, the government has to pay the bill…it’s just semantics…

teflon is still inert…but it can no longer be made…todays alternative is something different.

PFOA/PFOS compunds are toxic, and making Teflon requires lots of toxic compounds--at levels that are poisoning us all. Here in NW GA, the Conasauga River is poisoned by them--from the wastewater discharged by the carpet mills in Dalton that are coating and washing Stainmaster non-stick toxics onto products used in homes, offices, and cars. Linked to all kinds of cancers--pancreatic and bladder and prostrate cancers particularly.

The government doesn't have to "pay the bill" if "something is banned". Where did this myth get started? Actually, when a corporation is poisoning for profit, gets caught and is being held to account, the corporation just dissolves, and the government--that's those of us who pay taxes and stand for America and Americans--pay the bill for the clean-up.

Society pays the costs of people being poisoned, too. That's the part that's not fair. It's not just the user--are those who poison their kids and neighbors ever held to account? Freedom to be dumb in your choices...

The health costs of those who choose to buy and use toxics is just part of the cost burden. The costs of the health impacts born by their sick and dull-normal (err, cognitively challenged) children and grandchildren impacted by exposures is huge, and often overlooked,

Whole regions of the country are heavily tainted with C8, PFA/S, etc, like WV and eastern NC with their Dupont chemical plants ruining the surface water and groundwater. A hidden cost. Of course, a lot of poison users make it clear they couldn't care less about others, even their own. Using one's kids as canaries in the coal mine isn't a good strategy for testing what sickens and kills, though, as it takes a while, the less informed miss the connection, and again, the poisoners usually get away with it.

Perhaps we can start a Voluntary Cancer and Disease Registry among the arborist community. Those using leaded gas, used motor oil for bar oil, and pesticides can sign up and the long-term effects of their bad practices and bad information they so confidently spread can be assessed.

Those of us who believe in facts, science, and evidence-based regulations have seen enough over the decades to know what these poisons and poisoners are doing to themselves, and the rest of us. As for me, I support your freedom to poison yourself, not the rest of us. Or, the future that others are promised.
-------------
“North Carolina is the third highest state for PFAS exposure,” said Jamie DeWitt, Ph. D., from East Carolina University. “People who have certain types of PFAS exposure have health effects that include cancers, cholesterol diseases, pregnancy-induced hypertension and preeclampsia, and thyroid disease, among others.”

https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2019/3/feature/2-feature-pfas/index.htm

Revealed: US water likely contains more ‘forever chemicals’ than EPA tests show​

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-water-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-epa-tests

 

[Hermio]

Actually, the chemicals that are used to make Teflon weren’t banned either, they were regulated out of existence….if the USA bans something, the government has to pay the bill…it’s just semantics…

teflon is still inert…but it can no longer be made…todays alternative is something different.

It is still being made.

 

[Hermio]

So do you eat meat cooked another way or what is best?

Sure, I eat it. I also eat barbecue on occasion, in full knowledge that smoke is carcinogenic. But the odds are I will die of something else rather than cancer from eating barbecue, as such things take decades to do any harm. And since we will not live forever no matter what we do, might as well enjoy life, with reasonable moderation. My point is that avoiding Teflon will not make you live longer if you still cook foods.

 

[Hermio]

PFOA/PFOS compunds are toxic, and making Teflon requires lots of toxic compounds--at levels that are poisoning us all. Here in NW GA, the Conasauga River is poisoned by them--from the wastewater discharged by the carpet mills in Dalton that are coating and washing Stainmaster non-stick toxics onto products used in homes, offices, and cars. Linked to all kinds of cancers--pancreatic and bladder and prostrate cancers particularly.

The government doesn't have to "pay the bill" if "something is banned". Where did this myth get started? Actually, when a corporation is poisoning for profit, gets caught and is being held to account, the corporation just dissolves, and the government--that's those of us who pay taxes and stand for America and Americans--pay the bill for the clean-up.

Society pays the costs of people being poisoned, too. That's the part that's not fair. It's not just the user--are those who poison their kids and neighbors ever held to account? Freedom to be dumb in your choices...

The health costs of those who choose to buy and use toxics is just part of the cost burden. The costs of the health impacts born by their sick and dull-normal (err, cognitively challenged) children and grandchildren impacted by exposures is huge, and often overlooked,

Whole regions of the country are heavily tainted with C8, PFA/S, etc, like WV and eastern NC with their Dupont chemical plants ruining the surface water and groundwater. A hidden cost. Of course, a lot of poison users make it clear they couldn't care less about others, even their own. Using one's kids as canaries in the coal mine isn't a good strategy for testing what sickens and kills, though, as it takes a while, the less informed miss the connection, and again, the poisoners usually get away with it.

Perhaps we can start a Voluntary Cancer and Disease Registry among the arborist community. Those using leaded gas, used motor oil for bar oil, and pesticides can sign up and the long-term effects of their bad practices and bad information they so confidently spread can be assessed.

Those of us who believe in facts, science, and evidence-based regulations have seen enough over the decades to know what these poisons and poisoners are doing to themselves, and the rest of us. As for me, I support your freedom to poison yourself, not the rest of us. Or, the future that others are promised.
-------------
“North Carolina is the third highest state for PFAS exposure,” said Jamie DeWitt, Ph. D., from East Carolina University. “People who have certain types of PFAS exposure have health effects that include cancers, cholesterol diseases, pregnancy-induced hypertension and preeclampsia, and thyroid disease, among others.”

https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2019/3/feature/2-feature-pfas/index.htm

Revealed: US water likely contains more ‘forever chemicals’ than EPA tests show​

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-water-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-epa-tests

I agree that the chemicals used in manufacturing can be toxic, and this should be addressed. But "forever chemicals" such as Teflon are no threat in and of themselves. They are called "forever chemicals" because they are chemically inert and do not break down under normal conditions. That means they will not react with anything in the body. If there is no reaction, there is no toxicity. BTW, I am a Chemical Engineer.

 

[joe25DA]

I had a jug of that Stihl pre-mix go sour, steel can un opened. Should have known as it didn’t smell right. I have lots of older saws too 70s-80s which specified 30weight mixed with regular gas. I’ve done that plenty of times and never had an issue. You say that to certain guys and they get an eye twitch.

 

[Hermio]

I had a jug of that Stihl pre-mix go sour, steel can un opened. Should have known as it didn’t smell right. I have lots of older saws too 70s-80s which specified 30weight mixed with regular gas. I’ve done that plenty of times and never had an issue. You say that to certain guys and they get an eye twitch.

There are no ethanol-free gasoline pumps in my area. But I have never had a problem that was fuel related in my saw. I use Ata-Bil every time I make up a batch. That seems to work.

 

[joe25DA]

There are no ethanol-free gasoline pumps in my area. But I have never had a problem that was fuel related in my saw. I use Ata-Bil every time I make up a batch. That seems to work.

Here either. In my case I think I got a stale/ bad batch. After I emptied the tank and put fresh fuel in the saw ran fine. I have a ratio measuring cup, I poured in the recommended amount of oil to mix at 40:1 with 2 gal of fuel. I likely went heavier on the oil cause I always do. Saws, mower, wackers and blowers all ran happy. The only thing I missed was the dye. Adding motor oil doesn’t change the fuel color

 

[ValleyForge]

It is still being made.

If I remember correctly, they ‘phased the chemical out’ in 2014, so it is just a matter of time…hell, I still use DDT…it’s perfectly legal…lol

 

[HansFranz]

"forever chemicals" such as Teflon are no threat in and of themselves. They are called "forever chemicals" because they are chemically inert and do not break down under normal conditions

Yeah, considering that the carbon-fluorine bond is one of the strongest chemical bonds in the Universe, there ain't much that's more inert than Teflon. There's also no limit to how long the molecule can be.

Maybe that helps explain why nothing wants to stick to it!

Just a guess

 

[ValleyForge]

PFOA/PFOS compunds are toxic, and making Teflon requires lots of toxic compounds--at levels that are poisoning us all. Here in NW GA, the Conasauga River is poisoned by them--from the wastewater discharged by the carpet mills in Dalton that are coating and washing Stainmaster non-stick toxics onto products used in homes, offices, and cars. Linked to all kinds of cancers--pancreatic and bladder and prostrate cancers particularly.

The government doesn't have to "pay the bill" if "something is banned". Where did this myth get started? Actually, when a corporation is poisoning for profit, gets caught and is being held to account, the corporation just dissolves, and the government--that's those of us who pay taxes and stand for America and Americans--pay the bill for the clean-up.

Society pays the costs of people being poisoned, too. That's the part that's not fair. It's not just the user--are those who poison their kids and neighbors ever held to account? Freedom to be dumb in your choices...

The health costs of those who choose to buy and use toxics is just part of the cost burden. The costs of the health impacts born by their sick and dull-normal (err, cognitively challenged) children and grandchildren impacted by exposures is huge, and often overlooked,

Whole regions of the country are heavily tainted with C8, PFA/S, etc, like WV and eastern NC with their Dupont chemical plants ruining the surface water and groundwater. A hidden cost. Of course, a lot of poison users make it clear they couldn't care less about others, even their own. Using one's kids as canaries in the coal mine isn't a good strategy for testing what sickens and kills, though, as it takes a while, the less informed miss the connection, and again, the poisoners usually get away with it.

Perhaps we can start a Voluntary Cancer and Disease Registry among the arborist community. Those using leaded gas, used motor oil for bar oil, and pesticides can sign up and the long-term effects of their bad practices and bad information they so confidently spread can be assessed.

Those of us who believe in facts, science, and evidence-based regulations have seen enough over the decades to know what these poisons and poisoners are doing to themselves, and the rest of us. As for me, I support your freedom to poison yourself, not the rest of us. Or, the future that others are promised.
-------------
“North Carolina is the third highest state for PFAS exposure,” said Jamie DeWitt, Ph. D., from East Carolina University. “People who have certain types of PFAS exposure have health effects that include cancers, cholesterol diseases, pregnancy-induced hypertension and preeclampsia, and thyroid disease, among others.”

https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2019/3/feature/2-feature-pfas/index.htm

Revealed: US water likely contains more ‘forever chemicals’ than EPA tests show​

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-water-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-epa-tests

Hydrogen is toxic and explosive, and they use that to make water…lol

Teflon is still inert..

as for the government banning something, yes they have to pay the bill as I described. The constitution is funny like that…

 

[ValleyForge]

Yeah, considering that the carbon-fluorine bond is one of the strongest chemical bonds in the Universe, there ain't much that's more inert than Teflon. There's also no limit to how long the molecule can be.

Maybe that helps explain why nothing wants to stick to it!

Just a guess

And invented by accident…go figure…lol

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Couldnt give me ultra.

This guy did a good video

 

[John Walsh]

the line if you start with synthetic oil, you must stick to it I believe mainly applied to synthetic oil used in cars (4cycle) many many years ago as think they were worried about the two types of oil mixing and causing some issues like foaming or sludge etc.
never Really applied to 2 cycles

Right you are. Supposedly, mineral oils would leave sludge that would coat the (4 stroke) internal surfaces. When a syn was used, it's more detergent qualities would break free the accumulated sludge, which might clog an oil passage (usually in the lifter bores ,solid lifters being more prone to scuff cam and lifter face if marginal oil film).

 

[Hermio]

If I remember correctly, they ‘phased the chemical out’ in 2014, so it is just a matter of time…hell, I still use DDT…it’s perfectly legal…lol

No. You can still buy Teflon in many forms.

 

[Hermio]

Hydrogen is toxic and explosive, and they use that to make water…lol

Teflon is still inert..

as for the government banning something, yes they have to pay the bill as I described. The constitution is funny like that…

Hydrogen by itself is neither toxic nor explosive. Hydrogen plus an oxidizer is explosive. But as you say, I am happy to drink dihydrogen monoxide every day.

 

[Husky77]

While I was chasing a hard start problem on an 029 super, with "fresh mix", I was astonished to read that Stihl synthetic 2-cycle oil "biodegradable" really means it degrades in by 80% 21 days AFTER MIXING. I got this off of the Sthil USA web site.

That seems to mean any mix must be used almost immediately and will be "degraded" significantly in only a week. Can this be correct?

I'd go back to the standard orange bottle, but was told by the dealer I bough the synthetic from that once synthetic was run, you could never go back. Is that true?

Please help me grapple with those two points.

There are dealers, then there are dealers. I would stay away from yours and never go back, to BS you just to make a.sale is one step off being a crock. Remember er the saying .... fool me once.. now it's up to you.