Stihl's new Motor

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A few years back before Deere resold Homelite their labs came out with a very interesting gas/emissions recuperating process on 2 cycle engines and it was appropriately named by Deere ‘’ Clean Burn Technology’’. I believe that there had been discusions with Stihl and a few other 2 cycle engine manufucturers at the time to license out this process. I remember reading up on it and seeing a video on the internet on its design and operation. It was a great stride forward in 2 cycle technology and surpassed future EPA emission regulations. However this probably added weight to the engine itself and perhaps its 75% cleaner burning estimate was killed by the additional weigth.

I was unable to come up with anything on it on Deeres site but it was there for quite a while.
 
http://rermag.com/mag/equipment_deere_slashes_jobs/<blockquote>August 1, 2001

In other Deere news, the company signed an agreement with Stihl to manufacture engines using a reduced emission, 2-stroke engine fuel handling technology developed by Deere.&nbsp; Waiblingen, Germany-based Stihl will produce the engines.&nbsp; The technology is expected to have applications for handheld equipment, walk-behind products, marine products, utility engines, snowmobiles and motor scooters.

Stihl will use the engine technology to satisfy emissions standards such as the California Air Resource Board Tier II, Environmental Protection Agency Phase II and future European regulations.</blockquote>
 
glens said:
http://rermag.com/mag/equipment_deere_slashes_jobs/<blockquote>August 1, 2001

In other Deere news, the company signed an agreement with Stihl to manufacture engines using a reduced emission, 2-stroke engine fuel handling technology developed by Deere.&nbsp; Waiblingen, Germany-based Stihl will produce the engines.&nbsp; The technology is expected to have applications for handheld equipment, walk-behind products, marine products, utility engines, snowmobiles and motor scooters.

Stihl will use the engine technology to satisfy emissions standards such as the California Air Resource Board Tier II, Environmental Protection Agency Phase II and future European regulations.</blockquote>

Glens, yep, I remember reading that. Deere must have removed their technology article off their web site as it would date back to 1998-2000 era. There had also been another article published were several German companies were interested in this new Deere technology although it has been 6-7 years now since, but I believe Makita/Sachs/Dolmar was among that German group along with Stihl, but after so many years my recollection can be wrong. :dizzy:
 
260

Where do people get this stuff?
I personally have been impressed with how some of the last 260s we sold run. I never liked 3/8 chain on an 026, but the newest 260 handle it with ease and keep rpms better than the previous. Cuts are in frozen 16 inch maple.
Just because one person says something about one saw doesn't make it true. Run about ten of them, and then give me an answer. :angry:
 
Ah Mr. Gypo don't be such a B??????? please post pictures. Could you also tell me how the power to weight ratio is.

Is there good dealer support with those chainsaws.
Pal,
Mac Cat 112
 
stihltech said:
Where do people get this stuff?

Well I got this stuff from my Stihl dealer who has been selling Stihl as long as I can remember, which is a real long time 20-25 years anyways.

I guess he and his Stihl Canada rep, must not know what they are talking about.
 
Lobo,
Maybe they don't know what they are talking about But I know one thing
Jim is always on the money with the info, not to mention Paul. Those 2 you can take to the bank.....
As for my buddy ol pal Gypo, well that's for another time.
Where's Babcock when you need him.
Dennis back to you.
 
stihltech said:
Where do people get this stuff?

Not exactly sure to what your referring to, however some of the items I am referring to were actually on Deere's own web site available for public reading back 5-6 years ago under their news tab for 1 to 2 years anyways even past when Deere sold Homeanite to Textron.

The balance as well as the same Deere info was published by various authorities that follow, analyze, scrutinize and publish in magazines and on the net some of the goings on financially and technically in various industries ands on many companies. Most CEO's of large companies come out several times a year with new-a-ties and addresses, be it financial or technical to keep the financial annalist's hopping and the financial gurus speculating on their corporate stock value. The higher the stock for everyone the better
 
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Little history.........no.

Ever wonder why John Deere got rid of using Echo?
Ever wonder why JD bought Homelite?
Ever wonder why the association with Home Depot?

JD knew Low Emission (LE) engine regs were coming like a freight train, engine technology both in the US, and Europe was lagging, and China was on the horizon.
JD didn't want to miss out on the future business with Big Box stores.
JD knew that as time went on, Big Boxes would either have their own service facilities like Sears & Lowes, or have service thru special franchised service centers like MTD is now setting up for MTD, Troy Bilt (not the same as the old Troy Bilt), White, and very limited Cub Cadet. In essence they're doing an end run around their current servicing dealers. Grab your ankles & grin.

JD is deliberatley trying to reduce the amount of dealers they have....some don't even have a sales-service rep that physically calls on them, and/or they're getting dealers to merge into a larger business.
Think stats were something like by 2010, they will have 50% less dealers.
Consolidation,.....and profits are the buzz words.

JD got a hold of an engine design called "Compression Wave" Theory & Design.
It has worked on only larger, heavier engines with much lower RPM's, but JD thought they could make it work, build they're own two cycle products, and could compete with Stihl, Echo, Husqvarna, etc using their own engine.

This engine was one of the "future potential working" (remember the words "future potential working") Low Emission engines that CARB & EPA looked at. Funny, production was never, never run. No engines were ever made for sale, but the emission regs were written around it, and others.
Think about that for a moment. Let's make laws, but we can't prove the engines will work. Must have be an evolution engine...not intelligent design.

But it ONLY came close IN THE LAB to working, and meeting lower emissions.
While all this was going on the big boys like Homelite, Stihl, Husqvarna, and many more were saying to CARB & the EPA, "It can't be done. You'll drive us out out of business. Prices will be too high".

Ok, while all this is going on....JD buys Homelite.
Why?
Simple.
Homelite already had manufacturing plants, and KNOWLEDGEBLE work force.
Homelite still had something of a service network left.
Homelite had figured out how to mass produce engines cheaply.
Homelite had a world known name.
Homelite was already in both dealers,....AND Big Box stores. More business.
Now because Homelite was already in Big Boxes, and with JD buying them, it gave JD a perfect excuse to tell their dealers.....we had to go Big Box, and hardware chain stores because Homelite was already there.

JD builds a modern, new manufacturing plant.....where............?
Mexico.

JD drops Echo, and starts coloring Homelite yellow & green.
JD drops Noma/Murray as their snow blower supplier, hooking up with Ariens.

Like a cross word puzzle, start putting all these pieces together in a plan.

Well, JD couldn't get the engine to both actually work in a LE format, and be cost effective.
Bye, bye plans of being a self manufacturing super power.
So much for "future potential working".

JD sells Homelite, all the plants even the new Mexico plant, and the marketing rights....taking a write off (losing) something like 110-117 million US dollars. Yes, One hundred ten to one hundred seventeen MILLION dollars.

JD basically shevles the engine, starts making the Scotts tractors, hooks up with Home Depot on the new 100 series tractors. Also sells them to JD dealers so they can compete with Big Boxes.

JD and Ariens seperate, and JD goes back to Noma/Murray for snow blowers.

JD starts using Mitsubishi stratified LE two cycles.
JD starts using Kawasaki two cycles. Kawasaki didn't have LE engines.

JD buys EFCO chains saws, and Fuji Robin blowers, hedge trimmers, etc.
Many people don't know JD buys alot of what they sell, like smaller diesel tractors, the zero turn mowers were built by Yazoo/Kees, and now Great Dane. JD bought Great Dane few years ago, so now they're in the commercial mower business by acquiring a company. Instant experts.

While all this is going on....in the two cycle world, the big boys are desperately trying to get emission regs stopped, or change them, or get them delayed. They actually though they could out do CARB AND the EPA.
Boy did they learn a lesson.

In the mean time, companies were actually developing new engine technologies that had promise. Someone hadn't told them it couldn't be done.

..........EARLY TWO CYCLES.......First Two.....ONLY TWO That Passed in 1995.
Tanaka with the Pure Fire.
Red Max with the Strato Charged (stratified).

..............LATER TWO CYCLES..................
Mitsubishi TLE stratified.
Maryauma with the CE engine.
Echo finally gets the Tornado to work. However has some lean problems.
Dolmar improves internals, improves combustion chamber design & flow.
Husqvarna eventually does CE having improved internals w/catalytic mufflers.

.............RECENT TWO CYCLES...........
RED MAX with second generation statified.
Mitsubishi (Dolmar associate) now has four stratified 19-43cc engines.
Husqvarna X Torq is their external stratified
Stihl's new stratified intro'd on the TS700.

.......EARLY FOUR STROKES..................
Ryobi has first available. Nuff said.
Fuji Robin AND Shindaiwa team up on four cylce. Eventually split up with Fuji-Robin (associated with Dolmar) goes straight gas/ four stroke.
Dolmar & Posche develop a Professional 57cc chain saw.
Honda does an early four cycle with straight gas.

.......LATER FOUR STROKES................
Briggs & Stratton new w/straight gas.
Red Max straight gas. Dropped it because their new two stroke pass ALL regs.
Stihl 4 Mix. Two cycle mix/four stroke
Shindaiwa produces new 25.4 cc two cycle mix/four stroke

..............TODAYS FOUR STROKES.....................
Honda's second generation. Lighter, quieter.
Stihl has larger 4 Mix, including two blowers.
Husqvarna intro's theirs....which is actually a Honda reskinned in orange.
Rumor of one new 4 stroker coming by XXXX.

Two cycle patents are now locking out many large companies from working, affordable LE engines.
Stihl being behind in the pure two stroke design availability makes a smart tactical move.
Buys develpoment rights to the JD engine, partners with guess who.............?
Mercedes Benz, and is trying to develop a working LE that's light weight, and cost effective. I think it's in Stuttgart, Germany.

Emission regs have been quite a boon to the technology companies, the enviroment, and consumers because they have forced scientific, technology,
fostered new designs, increased fuel ecomony, and helped hold down prices.

Sadly, the consumers....ALL of us, haven't been getting the straight skinny from many companies about what's going to happen, and who's doing what.
Alot of BS is going on.

There's an often times misrepresented Federally mandated emissions rating(s) that was worked out with, and APPROVED by engine makers to make us be smarter, and better buyers.
It's called the Emissions Durability Period or EDP.

Some companies-sales & marketing people have represented it as Engine Durability Peroid.
Some companies have said it has nothing, or very little to do with the actual life of an engine.
They suffer from Pinochiotis. Remember why his nose grew long.

Some companies have given their engines the highest rating,...BUTT they require extensive maintenance, and expensive parts replacement.
Like cylinder exhaust port cleanouts, and even carbureator replacements.

But that's all some other time.
 
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stihltech said:
......I personally have been impressed with how some of the last 260s we sold run. I never liked 3/8 chain on an 026, but the newest 260 handle it with ease and keep rpms better than the previous. Cuts are in frozen 16 inch maple.........
:

Is that "last 260s" the new version, rated at 2.4kw instead of 2.6 ?

Well, anyway we all know tht max kw/bhp/hp isn't the only factor determining a saws behavior in the cut. Maybe the new version has a wider powerband? ;)
 
its unbeleivable how big mitsubishi really is,last time i checked they were the largest corporation in the world.i find the 3/8 ok on 26.
 
test

No, I don't have a scientific test. Mine consists of burying a 16 inch bar in maple and watching the results.
I compare it to the 300 or so saws I run in a year.
The newer 260s stay up in the power range much better than previous saws.
 
Looks like Jd don't know what to do?

It is funny that Echo has the most engines passing EPA specs though.
Leaning problems?None that I seen they are even running engines at a 200:1 fuel mix in Japan as a test for future EPA specs with no problems.
 
smokin_stroker0 said:
Looks like Jd don't know what to do?

It is funny that Echo has the most engines passing EPA specs though.
Leaning problems?None that I seen they are even running engines at a 200:1 fuel mix in Japan as a test for future EPA specs with no problems.

Think about this..
200:1, sounds great. Pour that in a saw 45-115cc, then go beside a harvester or better put it in a mill, that will test it properly.
 
real good info this post.. just wish i knew enuff to understand it better.. since i dont ,gonna stick with my tried an true 372 husk ,952 efco and older 026.. all modified..
i know them is,the main reason.. i think a bigger factor than most take into into consideration...
 
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