Stupid me!!

[turnkey4099]

After all summer filing my own chains it was time to have them done professionally. Not wanting a 60 mile roundtrip to the usual place I checked in town...Yep, Ace Hardware does them. Guy at the weekly breakfast and BS session says "yep, and they do a good job".

Okay, I have now cycled 5 chains through there. Tried out two of them today. Both did not cut as well as when I file them (but at least the teeth were even). Okay, sez I, I'll touch them up when I get home.

Nope. First one (and only so far) that I tried it was like laying a file on glass, no 'bite' at all. Teeth not blued though.

Question. Can I grind them back past the hardening point or does that go waaaayyy back on the tooth?

Harry K

 

[alderman]

Dumb question #1

Are you sure the file is good?

 

[Fish]

After all summer filing my own chains it was time to have them done professionally. Not wanting a 60 mile roundtrip to the usual place I checked in town...Yep, Ace Hardware does them. Guy at the weekly breakfast and BS session says "yep, and they do a good job".

Okay, I have now cycled 5 chains through there. Tried out two of them today. Both did not cut as well as when I file them (but at least the teeth were even). Okay, sez I, I'll touch them up when I get home.

Nope. First one (and only so far) that I tried it was like laying a file on glass, no 'bite' at all. Teeth not blued though.

Question. Can I grind them back past the hardening point or does that go waaaayyy back on the tooth?

Harry K

Send that one to me, I will look at it closely, post the pics here, sharpen it correctly for you, probably for a lot less that you were charged....

For the forum, it is educational....... No charge.....

 

[AOD]

After paying $8 a pop to have chains sharpened it won't take long to justify the Carlton grinder from Bailys. If you;re a real pro spring for the Oregon 511AX.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Glad you brought this up, Your not alone. I bought a grinder a year ago and only use it on the chains for my long bars. (lazy) Ran one long enough in the field to dull it and was going to touch it up with a file and same thing, like trying to file glass. Got home and tried a new file and same thing and trashed the file too with three strokes across one tooth. Tried several more cutters and trashed two more files (I am stupid OK?) but found about 1 out of 6-8 would file. These are Stihl RS and RSC chains and I had never tried to file any of them before ginding. End of story is I have 4 chains for my 32' and 25" bars that I cannot file, not really a big deal, I will grind them out. Did try the grinder on some worn out Stihl 3/8 picco I had at the shop and same thing except about half the teeth would not file (and trashed another file too) tried it on some odd ball Windsor, Carlton and Oregon chains I have in the shop and all of them filed the same before and after grinding. All of my Stihl chains do it, yours did it, surprised that it has never been mentioned here before.

 

[AOD]

Are you guys using good files? I have a bunch of cheap Oregon box store files, some chains they cut good but others they just want to skate across the tooth. Try a set of good Pfred files from Bailys, they should cut much better on hard steel.

 

[WRW]

My limited experience is that the hardening does not go back far and once you get the first "bite" with the file, you are OK for that tooth. Just getting that first bite is a bit of a challenge.

 

[Poley4]

After all summer filing my own chains it was time to have them done professionally. Not wanting a 60 mile roundtrip to the usual place I checked in town...Yep, Ace Hardware does them. Guy at the weekly breakfast and BS session says "yep, and they do a good job".

Okay, I have now cycled 5 chains through there. Tried out two of them today. Both did not cut as well as when I file them (but at least the teeth were even). Okay, sez I, I'll touch them up when I get home.

Nope. First one (and only so far) that I tried it was like laying a file on glass, no 'bite' at all. Teeth not blued though.

Question. Can I grind them back past the hardening point or does that go waaaayyy back on the tooth?

Harry K

The hardness should be through the whole tooth, but it is no where near as hard as high carbon steel could be hardened to. What I would say happened that the surface of the tooth where it was ground, got hard. Even if the tooth didn't appear blue from heat, it can still be hard on the surface.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Are you guys using good files? I have a bunch of cheap Oregon box store files, some chains they cut good but others they just want to skate across the tooth. Try a set of good Pfred files from Bailys, they should cut much better on hard steel.

Well, I think so. My files are Stihl.

 

[AOD]

Well, I think so. My files are Stihl.

I would try a different file just for comparison sake. How do you know your Stihl files are not just rebranded Oregon ones?

 

[turnkey4099]

Good point about the file. I will try a new file but I don't expect any change. The chain is the same one I filed and the file is sthe same one I used then - it was cutting good then.

I have one of those POS Harbor Freight grinders. I'll try that and then file afterwards if it still _will_ file.

I am in the midst of a rush Locust harvest, hitting it heavy every day trying to beat the weather. I'll muddle through with the way they are cutting now till I finish - probably end of next week and then see what happens.

Push comes to shove it will be back to the 60 mile roundtrip - no more back to the local store.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Send that one to me, I will look at it closely, post the pics here, sharpen it correctly for you, probably for a lot less that you were charged....

For the forum, it is educational....... No charge.....

Thanks. I'll take you up on it and pay whatever your regular charge is. It will be a few days as I want to try out some of the others first. Hitting the locust site in the morning and will swap to two others - see how they do.

Sending a PM

Harry K

 

[Mike Van]

Locust - about the last thing I want to cut with a marginal chain - I feel for you Harry -

 

[echoman8]

sawchain sharpening with bench machine

After all summer filing my own chains it was time to have them done professionally. Not wanting a 60 mile roundtrip to the usual place I checked in town...Yep, Ace Hardware does them. Guy at the weekly breakfast and BS session says "yep, and they do a good job".

Okay, I have now cycled 5 chains through there. Tried out two of them today. Both did not cut as well as when I file them (but at least the teeth were even). Okay, sez I, I'll touch them up when I get home.

Nope. First one (and only so far) that I tried it was like laying a file on glass, no 'bite' at all. Teeth not blued though.

Question. Can I grind them back past the hardening point or does that go waaaayyy back on the tooth?

Harry K

Hi,

I just kinda glanced at the replies so, I may be repeating some info.

Sawchains can be damaged easily by a bench machine. I had a shop for 8 years doing a large amount of machine sharpening myself in central Texas.

The most common mistake that mechs make with a machine is to let the stone get dirty (oil deposit) and leaving the stone on the cutter too long. Both cause the same result. The temper of the metal is changed from overheating. Although the metal is harder to file, the cutting edge will not remain sharp and in some cases may even be curled (use magnifying glass).

The sharpened edge should be silver to chromed in color. If there is any bluing (blue color) of the metal, it has been overheated.

CHOOSE YOUR SHOP AND MECHANIC WELL WHEN YOU HAVE GOOD CHAINS TO BE SHARPENED BY A BENCH SHARPENER.

I would have $1 sharpening specials and would be at the bench sharpener all day long. Even a correctly sharpened chain will be difficult to run a file through for the first stroke or two because the stone does not make a circle like the file. The first couple of strokes will reshape the chain.

Most shops sharpen at 30 or 35 degrees. Have them sharpen one at 25 degrees and see if it doesn't stay sharp longer.

All damaged metal must be removed from a cutter for it to cut properly and remain sharp. Once again, inspect the cutters with a magnifying glass. After a while, the glass will be unnecessary, but it certainly helps at first.

The sharpening should no go so deep as to touch the rivets. This will cause a hook appearance to the cutter and can cause it to catch and break.

There are other factors also, but you can see now that just having the grinder to sharpen a chain does not make a mechanic reliable to trust your expensive chains to sharpen.

It can not be called a talent, but there is a certain amount of training and patience required to properly sharpen.

Good luck,
echoman

Good luck,
echoman

 

[turnkey4099]

Well, it was a good try. I hit the locust with two more of the "sharpened" chains. Not one would self feed. That makes 4 of the 5 that needed redone. I gave up on trying to cut after 6 rounds off a 20" log and came home with a little over half a load.

I tried a new file on the one I posted about this morning. It seemed to cut some on the few teeth I tried.

I needed some oil for gas mix and nothing but odd brands in town. Off on that 60 mile roundtrip over to Potlach and the guys at Idaho Rigging. Took 3 of the chains with me to have them sharpen them. They wouldn't sharpen while I waited. Needing to keep working on that Locust patch I bought one new chain for the MS310.

That leaves me with one chain for the small saw plus the one for Fish for the bigger saw as a spare. I will hold off a few days before sending that one off to him. I hope he can tell what the problem is. With my luck it will be something I am doing.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Hi,

I just kinda glanced at the replies so, I may be repeating some info.

Sawchains can be damaged easily by a bench machine. I had a shop for 8 years doing a large amount of machine sharpening myself in central Texas.

The most common mistake that mechs make with a machine is to let the stone get dirty (oil deposit) and leaving the stone on the cutter too long. Both cause the same result. The temper of the metal is changed from overheating. Although the metal is harder to file, the cutting edge will not remain sharp and in some cases may even be curled (use magnifying glass).

The sharpened edge should be silver to chromed in color. If there is any bluing (blue color) of the metal, it has been overheated.

CHOOSE YOUR SHOP AND MECHANIC WELL WHEN YOU HAVE GOOD CHAINS TO BE SHARPENED BY A BENCH SHARPENER.

I would have $1 sharpening specials and would be at the bench sharpener all day long. Even a correctly sharpened chain will be difficult to run a file through for the first stroke or two because the stone does not make a circle like the file. The first couple of strokes will reshape the chain.

Most shops sharpen at 30 or 35 degrees. Have them sharpen one at 25 degrees and see if it doesn't stay sharp longer.

All damaged metal must be removed from a cutter for it to cut properly and remain sharp. Once again, inspect the cutters with a magnifying glass. After a while, the glass will be unnecessary, but it certainly helps at first.

The sharpening should no go so deep as to touch the rivets. This will cause a hook appearance to the cutter and can cause it to catch and break.

There are other factors also, but you can see now that just having the grinder to sharpen a chain does not make a mechanic reliable to trust your expensive chains to sharpen.

It can not be called a talent, but there is a certain amount of training and patience required to properly sharpen.

Good luck,
echoman

Good luck,
echoman

Thanks. I knew most of that but some is new. Due to poor close-up vision (age) I have to use one of those file jigs that sets all the angles. My main failure is getting too much hook no matter how many times I tell myself not to do it.

I didn't know that the hardening caused the tooth to dull faster. Explains one thing that puzzled me. First cut the chain seemed to self feed for about the depth of the bar and then I had to start leanign on it (all 4 chains).

I have used several different shops over the years to resharpen my loops after I have done them several times. this is the first time I have ever gotten burned. Complacency I guess. I should have tried with just one loop to start instead of all of them.

Harry K

 

[echoman8]

Buy it

After paying $8 a pop to have chains sharpened it won't take long to justify the Carlton grinder from Bailys. If you;re a real pro spring for the Oregon 511AX.

Hi

If the shop does not have the courtesy to sharpen the chains after you have driven that far (with current gas prices), they do not have your interests at heart.

I totally agree with buying your own grinder and learning how to use it.

Learn, and then compete with this rogue shop. Convenience and courtesy will always bring customers.

I clean my stone at least once on every chain and on chains that are oily and I have not washed, I sometimes clean the stone 3 times (only takes a couple of seconds to clean). This eliminates much of the heat.

Good luck,
echoman

 

[AOD]

Hi

If the shop does not have the courtesy to sharpen the chains after you have driven that far (with current gas prices), they do not have your interests at heart.

I totally agree with buying your own grinder and learning how to use it.

Learn, and then compete with this rogue shop. Convenience and courtesy will always bring customers.

I clean my stone at least once on every chain and on chains that are oily and I have not washed, I sometimes clean the stone 3 times (only takes a couple of seconds to clean). This eliminates much of the heat.

Good luck,
echoman

The shop isnt too far away, but they are kind of annoyed by having to sharpen chains, they are more worried about selling new stuff, and you usually waiting around a good 20 min to have it done, I think they raised their prices to $8 to discourage people from having chains done there. It's a OPE shop, not a real saw shop, and a big operation. However, they would rather short staff the place and keep customers waiting around for half an hour to save money, the place is run by cheap ass Dutchmen.

 

[weenieroaster]

How are you guys cleaning your grinding stones?

 

[echoman8]

Cleaning stone

How are you guys cleaning your grinding stones?

Hi,

When you buy a grinder, a seperate harder stone than the sharpening stone is provided. By holding the cleaning stone to the sharpening stone lightly (machine running) and moving it back and forth where the oil/dirt is visible then the sharpening stone is cleaned.

If you don't have the cleaning stone, I believe Stens has them available. Certainly Baileys will have them although they may not be in their catalog.

Good luck,
echoman