Sure is quiet in here....do I need to start a fight?

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pioneerguy600 said:
Been that way off and on, now the ruts are forming and the pot holes very deep.
Click to expand...


Yeah.....our newer, well engineered, roads stand it pretty well but the other 90% of our roads that started as cow paths then became ox paths then became hoss and wagon roads then became dirt hossless carriage roads then got tarred several times/layers to present really suck when the frost goes out!!!!
 
The road Dan lives on was re done 4 - 5 years back as an experiment they did the reclaim and rehash jobby. None of those experiments have lasted well here, be ok if it never froze I would venture but has gone all to double hockey sticks here. With any luck it will get a new repave with proper asphalt this year, if not it will take all year to patch it up.
 
pioneerguy600 said:
The road Dan lives on was re done 4 - 5 years back as an experiment they did the reclaim and rehash jobby. None of those experiments have lasted well here, be ok if it never froze I would venture but has gone all to double hockey sticks here. With any luck it will get a new repave with proper asphalt this year, if not it will take all year to patch it up.
Click to expand...
They did ours about 5 years ago. It's cracking bad. They design them to fail. Job security.
 
pioneerguy600 said:
The road Dan lives on was re done 4 - 5 years back as an experiment they did the reclaim and rehash jobby. None of those experiments have lasted well here, be ok if it never froze I would venture but has gone all to double hockey sticks here. With any luck it will get a new repave with proper asphalt this year, if not it will take all year to patch it up.
Click to expand...

The DOT redid RT 15 to RT1 almost into Bucksport a few years back.....had a 'Nadian asphalt eater come to chew the layers up and reapply as one layer......worked great until the next spring......then was worse than before!!!!
 
Cantdog said:
The DOT redid RT 15 to RT1 almost into Bucksport a few years back.....had a 'Nadian asphalt eater come to chew the layers up and reapply as one layer......worked great until the next spring......then was worse than before!!!!
Click to expand...

Really fails where freeze and thaw conditions exist. Not enough of that gooey adhesive/sealer liquid asphalt used in the regurge application. They might get this to work if they add enough liquid to the mix so it seals itself against water infiltration. I know the fellow quite well in charge of the roads,Dept of Highways on the shore here and he agrees the mix needs adjusting.
 
pioneerguy600 said:
Really fails where freeze and thaw conditions exist. Not enough of that gooey adhesive/sealer liquid asphalt used in the regurge application. They might get this to work if they add enough liquid to the mix so it seals itself against water infiltration. I know the fellow quite well in charge of the roads,Dept of Highways on the shore here and he agrees the mix needs adjusting.
Click to expand...

I our case the only way make these roads good is to actually dig it all up and build a real road bed to put pavement on not just keep paving over a totally unsuitable base, that heavy truck traffic just works into muck as soon as it thaws!!
 
Many of the roads here in the same condition, they were never built to be paved, not enough drainage built in the base and too much non granular fill that holds water. Solid when froze hard but goes all to heck when it thaws out.
 
Cantdog said:
I our case the only way make these roads good is to actually dig it all up and build a real road bed to put pavement on not just keep paving over a totally unsuitable base, that heavy truck traffic just works into muck as soon as it thaws!!
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Robin thats what FDR does. Its an amazing process. Its Full Depth Reclamation. What occurs is a "mixing" of existing materials (asphalt, stone, dirt, etc) to a depth of normally 10-12". (Think 750hp rototiller). Then they take they spread cement in a powder form across as a given rate with a huge drop spreader. (Portland cement by the tanker load). Then the tiller hooks to a water truck and stirs in the cement with water through the whole mixture. Bring in a grader and blade it and a big roller to roll it right behind the mixer. You can now pave right then or you ideally wait 3-7 days then pave it. The base can be cut with a core drill like a concrete slab. Cylinders normally pop around 900 psi but I have seen them got 2700 psi or better than some concrete.

The process is designed to work on existing in place roads. I have done it a few times and it flat works great to heavy traffic and abused roads...like landfill access roads and such.

I will try to find some videos.
 
Sounds like quite a process Jimmy....and probably works great but up this way where the standard frost line is 48" you have to create good drainage to get the water out of the road bed at least down four feet or it will freeze and heave no matter what the surface is.......in my area we have about a 3 1/2 to 4" surface rise during an average winter and that isn't in an open road bed....just in your yard or where ever......there are only two ways to build a decent road bed here.......either put in a good coarse gravel bed 42-48" deep with good down hill drainage or bring in enough fill to get at least 4-5' above any water that can't be drained.......if frost can get to water it will freeze. The biggest problem is as Jerry and I both said, most of our roads were never engineered just paved over cow paths......not the least bit uncommon to dig down to put in a culvert and encounter wooden corduroy that was used to firm up the roadway so the hosses and wagons could get through in a wet spell or mud season. What the biggest problem is that road bed is not consistent.....might be really good gravel in one place and clay another 100' feet on. If it all froze the same it would all go up the same amount and back down the same amount....but that isn't the case due to springs, boulders wood and clay that makes up the roadbed. FDR sounds like an awesome way to strengthen a road surface but up here in the land of frost you would still need something to sit it on.....and all but the most modern engineered roads (40 years old) don't have that.
 
d782d97a0c5e6defdab3dfd876231b2a.jpg
f918af8ee4ff9c49ef940a87a58265f9.jpg
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55c5844c4f10db68de3741c20c0c88f8.jpg
 
Cantdog said:
Sounds like quite a process Jimmy....and probably works great but up this way where the standard frost line is 48" you have to create good drainage to get the water out of the road bed at least down four feet or it will freeze and heave no matter what the surface is.......in my area we have about a 3 1/2 to 4" surface rise during an average winter and that isn't in an open road bed....just in your yard or where ever......there are only two ways to build a decent road bed here.......either put in a good coarse gravel bed 42-48" deep with good down hill drainage or bring in enough fill to get at least 4-5' above any water that can't be drained.......if frost can get to water it will freeze. The biggest problem is as Jerry and I both said, most of our roads were never engineered just paved over cow paths......not the least bit uncommon to dig down to put in a culvert and encounter wooden corduroy that was used to firm up the roadway so the hosses and wagons could get through in a wet spell or mud season. What the biggest problem is that road bed is not consistent.....might be really good gravel in one place and clay another 100' feet on. If it all froze the same it would all go up the same amount and back down the same amount....but that isn't the case due to springs, boulders wood and clay that makes up the roadbed. FDR sounds like an awesome way to strengthen a road surface but up here in the land of frost you would still need something to sit it on.....and all but the most modern engineered roads (40 years old) don't have that.
Click to expand...
No doubt the frost is heck to work around. Learned that in Alaska.

Find all sorts of stuff in old tobacco cart paths around here.. dug up log lined paths, trolley tracks, etc.
 
Cantdog said:
Sounds like quite a process Jimmy....and probably works great but up this way where the standard frost line is 48" you have to create good drainage to get the water out of the road bed at least down four feet or it will freeze and heave no matter what the surface is.......in my area we have about a 3 1/2 to 4" surface rise during an average winter and that isn't in an open road bed....just in your yard or where ever......there are only two ways to build a decent road bed here.......either put in a good coarse gravel bed 42-48" deep with good down hill drainage or bring in enough fill to get at least 4-5' above any water that can't be drained.......if frost can get to water it will freeze. The biggest problem is as Jerry and I both said, most of our roads were never engineered just paved over cow paths......not the least bit uncommon to dig down to put in a culvert and encounter wooden corduroy that was used to firm up the roadway so the hosses and wagons could get through in a wet spell or mud season. What the biggest problem is that road bed is not consistent.....might be really good gravel in one place and clay another 100' feet on. If it all froze the same it would all go up the same amount and back down the same amount....but that isn't the case due to springs, boulders wood and clay that makes up the roadbed. FDR sounds like an awesome way to strengthen a road surface but up here in the land of frost you would still need something to sit it on.....and all but the most modern engineered roads (40 years old) don't have that.
Click to expand...

Maine is very much like here, there is every type of soil, rocks, bedrock, trees, stumps, cordrouy over swamp and river silt, clay, schist, gravel and you name it is under the roadbeds here. It all freezes and thaws at a different rate causing all sorts of subsidence and upheaval plus being soft so asphalt gets ripped apart. The roadbeds need to be stripped down to solid bearing and then be built up with blown stone we call serge and topped with gravel for drainage.
 

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