The Chinese saws are here, and they are becoming popular

[Jeff Lary]

When I need a can of Sea- Foam I can go to 3 different places. 2 are local auto parts stores or Wal Mart. One auto store is $13.00 a can one store is $ 8.50 and Wal mart is $11.00. I have absolutely zero brand / store loyalty . Who ever has the lowest price for what I want gets my dollars.
You all do this to some extent don't you , search out car tire prices, computer prices ,gas station prices and the list is endless. What does all this mean to me, very simple competition is good for all buyers of all things. Be glad there are china saws you can bet you sweet bippy Husky, Stihl and anyone with a brain is watching buying and testing these saws . They will and should keep track of their competitors .
Remember all the stickys on the main page? all the saws that used to be thriving companies?. Now it is down to what 4-5 saw makers ? that sucks to be quite honest. Ask your self this, why would a company ever even attempt to make a good product if they already have 90% market share buy our product or go without ! Don't be scared, it's ok little one, competition is good for your soul.

 

[Rockjock]

When I need a can of Sea- Foam I can go to 3 different places. 2 are local auto parts stores or Wal Mart. One auto store is $13.00 a can one store is $ 8.50 and Wal mart is $11.00. I have absolutely zero brand / store loyalty . Who ever has the lowest price for what I want gets my dollars.
You all do this to some extent don't you , search out car tire prices, computer prices ,gas station prices and the list is endless. What does all this mean to me, very simple competition is good for all buyers of all things. Be glad there are china saws you can bet you sweet bippy Husky, Stihl and anyone with a brain is watching buying and testing these saws . They will and should keep track of their competitors .
Remember all the stickys on the main page? all the saws that used to be thriving companies?. Now it is down to what 4-5 saw makers ? that sucks to be quite honest. Ask your self this, why would a company ever even attempt to make a good product if they already have 90% market share buy our product or go without ! Don't be scared, it's ok little one, competition is good for your soul.

I see your point but let me change it slightly. Your example for sea-foam is a good one. BUT lets just say that 2 stores have sea-foam and 1 has See-foam. See-foam is much cheaper, it kind of works but not as good as the real thing but hey for 2.99 its a bargain right? All of the saw makers get their competitors saws and look to see what makes them better than their own. Then they improve on them. They also have to abide by certain rules, silly ones at that like the chain brake working, the engines will not grenade, chains will not break off and slice you to the bone.
For me the knock offs just have no interest. While buddy is fighting with his Gio, Timbrrcraft, Scheiße Säge or whatever they decide to call it this week. I will stick with my real saw(s) . I can only speak for myself but when you have a good chainsaw and it cuts through the wood easily, that engine hums it is a pleasure to work with. Why would I want to give that up to run a saw that was made out of melted soft drink cans , discarded flip flops and old boot soles that I have to fight with to start, fight with to cut wood with and each time I am using it I say a silent prayer to St. Scroogipressi the patron saint of cheapskates?

YMMV but I doubt it.

 

[pro94lt]

Some people still honor the little man who changed their grandma's tire in the rain... I understand some want the cheapest no matter what the long term consequences are but just remember their are consequences. I don't price tires don't price a lot of stuff. I don't look down on people who price out anything but I run a small business too and when people price me I give em the normal price. When people trust me and just say send me a bill I know your a good man you can bet my price won't be beat or quality...
If everyone would live by the old saying "you may get me once but won't get me twice" this world would be much better off. Try it you may be surprised.

 

[wyk]

I see your point but let me change it slightly. Your example for sea-foam is a good one. BUT lets just say that 2 stores have sea-foam and 1 has See-foam. See-foam is much cheaper, it kind of works but not as good as the real thing but hey for 2.99 its a bargain right? All of the saw makers get their competitors saws and look to see what makes them better than their own. Then they improve on them. They also have to abide by certain rules, silly ones at that like the chain brake working, the engines will not grenade, chains will not break off and slice you to the bone.
For me the knock offs just have no interest. While buddy is fighting with his Gio, Timbrrcraft, Scheiße Säge or whatever they decide to call it this week. I will stick with my real saw(s) . I can only speak for myself but when you have a good chainsaw and it cuts through the wood easily, that engine hums it is a pleasure to work with. Why would I want to give that up to run a saw that was made out of melted soft drink cans , discarded flip flops and old boot soles that I have to fight with to start, fight with to cut wood with and each time I am using it I say a silent prayer to St. Scroogipressi the patron saint of cheapskates?

YMMV but I doubt it.

You've missed the point completely.

Even Husky and Stihl make virtually junk saws. The difference between a Stihl ms181 and a Poulan pro aren't large. And I would be surprised if much of both weren't made in China already.

The point is China isn't only making junk. They are starting in at the lower end where the 181's and Poulans live. And with this thing I saw the other day, they have their sights set on higher end models. This is just the beginning...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-america-is-now-no-2-2014-12-04

 

[Go Devil]

Too bad there's no air. I'd be squinting too if I couldn't breathe.

It is a very diverse country.

 

[Go Devil]

What the hell is it Legoland????

 

[Chris-PA]

Why would I want to give that up to run a saw that was made out of melted soft drink cans , discarded flip flops and old boot soles that I have to fight with to start, fight with to cut wood with and each time I am using it I say a silent prayer to St. Scroogipressi the patron saint of cheapskates?

YMMV but I doubt it.

Except that's not what they're made of. There are differences in casting and molding surface finish (pretty much irrelevant), flashing removal and fit, and machining. The designs are generally faithful to the originals exactly, and the designs they are copying are good ones. We're talking chainsaws here - any half-assed industrial country can manufacture a chainsaw, there's simply nothing difficult about it. And until strato engines and feedback carbs there hasn't been any significant technological advancement in chainsaws for maybe 30 years.

My mileage has varied - I'll cut a lot of wood with both of my clones this year, and I know each will start in a few pulls even in the cold. That G621 clone has guts too - I went to port it but only had to work on the intake as the other timing numbers were great already. I'll also run my Ryobi 10532, which is a Chinese made version of the GZ4000. Great little saw, and well made too.

The difference between a Stihl ms181 and a Poulan pro aren't large. And I would be surprised if much of both weren't made in China already.

There is a difference - the PoulanPro is better. It's had a strato engine for years, and as far as I know is both US designed and made, although I would not be surprised if there are a few Chinese parts. Certainly any electronic components are.

 

[Fubar]

I got a ban going on WalFart as well for the exact same reason ....spend all your money here to live better and die broke , we have everything you want but nothing you really need , we put actual stores that sold things you actually needed out of business so now you have to buy it online .

as far as china being able to come up to japan manufacturing standards that's the biggest laugh i have had all week , I have had jap bikes all my life , i have been through their motors , only top quality components and metallurgy there , the Chinese seem to have no idea or just don't care about proper metallurgy , be it's tempering or hardening , now i am sure there are brand name saw parts made there , but the difference is that the company set up a factory there to manufacture a part or a set of parts within it's quality control standards , that still doesn't mean i agree with the tactic .

which goes back to my #1 concern , safety ,china is the land of knock off and facsimiles, chunk-ed out the door made as fast and as cheaply as possible , my family thought it would be nice to get me something i actually needed ,so they bought me a bar and chain, one of those made in china tractor supply county line brand , it was the right one for my poulan pro , the chain never quit stretching and then the saw fell out of the back of the truck and bent the bar about double , i was so amazed at how weak and flimsy it was that i could straighten it back by hand , now someone please correct me if i am remembering wrong , but the quality bars i remember of the past were hardened and tempered like spring steel to flex without breaking while taking no permanent set and if you did manage to bowtie it you were not going to straighten it back out .
i like bars and chains that hold together and metal handles with chain brake's that work , i cant see myself buying a china doll when my local pawnshop is full of the old big red ,real made in Sweden husky's for $120 a pop.

but i do have a weakness , my two guilty pleasures that come from china are small busted Asian beauties and stir fried chow dog .

 

[Stihl99]

There are a lot of assumptions going on here. Probably the majority of the Chinese saws are based on obsolete Zenoah designs. The Earthquakes are a good example - all based on obsolete Zenoah G5000 and G3800 saws without strato engines. These have been sold at several major US retailers. Do you think that these are counterfeit, illegal copies and that the owners of those designs have just not bothered to enforce their rights? Does it make sense that the corporate attorneys for these large retail chains would be OK with the risks associated with selling stolen copies? Or maybe a company like Zenoah sold the rights to their old designs?
Even if some are licensed copies that certainly does not mean all of them are, but it seems extreme to jump straight to assuming that if it's made in China it must be counterfeit stuff made by slave labor. Especially when you are typing those words on a device made in China, like the vast majority of every product you buy.

Obsolete or selling a design is totally different discussion when buying china products, but explain why I and many others have seen cloned images of saws and parts being sold on the internet from companies that is Stihl and Husky designs sold today? Do you think Stihl or Husky gave their permission for these knock off companies to manufacture cloned parts to install on 2015 model saws?
china is a **** country with **** manufacturing companies over there that rips off everyone's design around the world and saws is just the tip of the iceberg to what they do rip off and clone manufacturer, look at the firearms industry they were ripping them off badly and have been for years.

 

[Chris-PA]

Obsolete or selling a design is totally different discussion when buying china products, but explain why I and many others have seen cloned images of saws and parts being sold on the internet from companies that is Stihl and Husky designs sold today? Do you think Stihl or Husky gave their permission for these knock off companies to manufacture cloned parts to install on 2015 model saws?
china is a **** country with **** manufacturing companies over there that rips off everyone's design around the world and saws is just the tip of the iceberg to what they do rip off and clone manufacturer, look at the firearms industry they were ripping them off badly and have been for years.

I've seen some Husqvarna and Stihl copies too, but don't know if they were current production. I suspect some of that is from making replacement parts - put enough of those together and you are making saws.

Your generalization is absurd - China is a big country with lots of different manufacturers and exporters, many different types of people. No doubt they do things for their own benefit, not ours, just as we do, but there will be lots of variation in ethics and the legality of what is done - also just like here. I would not buy a copy that I thought was unauthorized.

What you don't realize is that China is graduating engineers in huge numbers, while we pump out MBAs and host of other worthless degrees, and much of the state of the art stuff is designed as well as manufactured there (especially in electronics). The western corporations that sell that stuff are just sales and marketing fronts for the massive Chinese corporations that are the actual industrial capability behind it all. Many are aware that we lost our manufacturing capability, but not as many realize the design and engineering went right along with it. Only a fool underestimates the competition.

 

[olyman]

There is a caveat to your argument here.
For example, for about 30 years, the Chevrolet division of GM ignored the huge demand for original products to fix or restore vintage Chevrolet vehicles, and because of this "corporate blindness", hundreds of aftermarket companies emerged, and some of them began to produce reproductions that were actually as good as or even superior to the original.
Finally some of the corporate dumb asses woke up and recognized they were missing out on a billion dollar demand in the industry and started making the original parts again ... to what level of success I'm not sure, but certainly they missed out on sales revenues that would be tough to calculate.
Corporations tend to drift into this kind of stupidity, much of it is the arrogance that the customer will always pay whatever price is demanded by the brand, and to a point that's true, but there is a curve here that corporations almost always miss or ignore.
Just think for a moment about the millions of after market parts made for Stihl (for example) ... that are relatively decent quality and usable ... the corporate morons at Stihl are arguably letting this demand be satisfied outside of their brand.
There is no justification for a cylinder and piston kit (for example) to cost over $300.00.
This is partially due to the corporate mentality of keeping rebuilds expensive enough to encourage purchasing new units, and that does make sense to a certain point (again - the curve), but there is a tipping point to which it becomes self defeating.
I might consider a Meteor set (for example) @ an average of $140.00 opposed to over $300.00 for the Stihl set, but if the Stihl set was $200.00, I'd buy the Stihl over the aftermarket set.

 

[merr6267]

I was in Shanghai 3 weeks ago for business . . . I didn't have much to contribute, until I saw the pictures that were shown above. These pics were taken on the clearest day that I was there . . .


Those little rectangles are not train cars, but rather hi-rise apartment buildings. The tall buildings stretch in every direction as far as the eye can see.

Above is a view of the new downtown from a few miles away in the old market area.

The pictures are taken from the building that is lowest in the frame in this view, but middle in height.

As for commenting on Chinese saws and products; I have opinions, but they sometimes change, and having been there, they seem to change again . . . in both directions . . . :/

 

[nyctreeman]

I was in Shanghai 3 weeks ago for business . . . I didn't have much to contribute, until I saw the pictures that were shown above. These pics were taken on the clearest day that I was there . . .

View attachment 402694 View attachment 402695 View attachment 402696 View attachment 402697 View attachment 402698 View attachment 402694 View attachment 402695 View attachment 402696 View attachment 402697
Those little rectangles are not train cars, but rather hi-rise apartment buildings. The tall buildings stretch in every direction as far as the eye can see.
View attachment 402698
Above is a view of the new downtown from a few miles away in the old market area.
View attachment 402699
The pictures are taken from the building that is lowest in the frame in this view, but middle in height.

As for commenting on Chinese saws and products; I have opinions, but they sometimes change, and having been there, they seem to change again . . . in both directions . . . :/

Is that air sweet & sour or hot & spicy?

 

[wyk]

And that's how you can make things cheaply as well. Loose guvmint regs.

 

[merr6267]

Is that air sweet & sour or hot & spicy?

It is a bit like what you would smell at nitro drag race, (stings a little) but also mixed with many other "flavors" that do not have such fun connotations.

Burnt rubber and chemicals, various food, etc. But not the fleeting smell like you get at an event . . . It is constant, and feels dirty.

 

[nyctreeman]

And that's how you can make things cheaply as well. Loose guvmint regs.

Yeah well ... that's one thing a nation with oppressive guvmint regulation don't have to worry about ... "making things" ... cuz anyone who can get out does, those that remain starve to death economically or are forced to make cheap crap in order to keep the bottom line from falling into the toilet.

 

[Chris-PA]

Yeah well ... that's one thing a nation with oppressive guvmint regulation don't have to worry about ... "making things" ... cuz anyone who can get out does, those that remain starve to death economically or are forced to make cheap crap in order to keep the bottom line from falling into the toilet.

And yet the Chinese cannot compete with US made Poulan.

 

[nyctreeman]

And yet the Chinese cannot compete with US made Poulan.

Nothing to do with government regulation.

What government regulation has done anything to cause a company to make a good chainsaw?

I could give you 4 or 5 government regulations just off the top o me haid that have made them worse, like muffler regulations, fuel ratio regulations, carburetor regulations, emission regulations, and probably several in the industry I'm not even familiar with.

The good things like chain brakes were not government ideas or mandates, that was the free market responding to the issue, and then the government jumped on them and said "oh yeah, good idea, we'll mandate that too" ...

The government's big contribution to chainsaws outside of the debilitating things I've already mentioned is spark arrestors.

woo hoo!


The Chinese have only been in this game for a few years, eventually they'll come up just like everyone else did.
They did a real good job on my Norinco AK-47

 

[Chris-PA]

Nothing to do with government regulation.

What government regulation has done anything to cause a company to make a good chainsaw?

I could give you 4 or 5 government regulations just off the top o me haid that have made them worse, like muffler regulations, fuel ratio regulations, carburetor regulations, emission regulations, and probably several in the industry I'm not even familiar with.

The good things like chain brakes were not government ideas or mandates, that was the free market responding to the issue, and then the government jumped on them and said "oh yeah, good idea, we'll mandate that too" ...

The government's big contribution to chainsaws outside of the debilitating things I've already mentioned is spark arrestors.

woo hoo!


The Chinese have only been in this game for a few years, eventually they'll come up just like everyone else did.
They did a real good job on my Norinco AK-47

It is partially the emission regulations that are protecting Poulan. Poulan has strato engines and the Chinese cannot sell those here - they must make do with lean mixtures, limiter caps and cat mufflers, which puts them (and all the others who don't have the technology) at a disadvantage.

 

[nyctreeman]

It is partially the emission regulations that are protecting Poulan. Poulan has strato engines and the Chinese cannot sell those here - they must make do with lean mixtures, limiter caps and cat mufflers, which puts them (and all the others who don't have the technology) at a disadvantage.

Oh, I see what angle you're coming from now ...

Personally ... I like my saws the way they were before all this regulation. I like a carburetor I can adjust where it needs to be, I like free flowing ported mufflers without cats, etc.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm not a big fan of government interference in the market with duly noted and rare exceptions.